How do you like the current state of KF2? Does the game seem to be balanced to you?
Do not forget to provide details.
Do not forget to provide details.
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How do you like the current balance of KF2?
- Thread starter Reallifeh8er
- Start date
Taking into account that the game is balanced accordingly to the Perks that are currently released so far, I think it's too soon to tell whether the game is well balanced overall.
What I can say however, is that the Commando, Demo and Support lack some personality and usefulness and need a slight rework.
What I can say however, is that the Commando, Demo and Support lack some personality and usefulness and need a slight rework.
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There are a few major issues which completely overshadow skill and weapon balance such as the dangling economy, zerkerwall and nuke. In addition we have a few game breaking bugs like
Then you have to count in some extremely problematic designs which prevent any even remotely proper balance and intended gameplay own their own namely
If you leave all that behind there is still some major work to be done with almost all skill trees. Support seems in the right spot for me, but
I can undstand Tripwire or people around here might disagree with some of these points but that pretty much sums up my point of view on the general balance.
TL&DR
In my opinion there is A LOT wrong with the current balance but it could be worse (I don't think it's most of the game).
- the parry & block break bug
- disappearing explosives(not due to sirens or arm distance)
- involuntary skills/perk change
- Zed blinking
Then you have to count in some extremely problematic designs which prevent any even remotely proper balance and intended gameplay own their own namely
- the way how splash damage works
- the various combinations of blind spots in both map design and AI which lead to the zerkerwall
- useless burning damage over time effects
- ammo balance
- demo's (without nuke) underwhelming arsenal.
If you leave all that behind there is still some major work to be done with almost all skill trees. Support seems in the right spot for me, but
- Berserker lacks support for his ranged weapons and smash is too good to be true
- Firebug offers a symphony of extremely powerful and extremely weak skills which balance out at the bottom-line but don't leave any choice
- Medic has what seems to be a 50% ratio of absolutely useless skills which don't do anything or mask their presence so well people might think they don't do anything. Low skill ceiling due to homing darts and instant armor repair are issues too.
- Commando seems balanced but ordinary and I personally think making them choose between semi-auto and full-auto beforehand needlessly limits dynamics.
I can undstand Tripwire or people around here might disagree with some of these points but that pretty much sums up my point of view on the general balance.
TL&DR
In my opinion there is A LOT wrong with the current balance but it could be worse (I don't think it's most of the game).
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Field medic:
Healing darts are a bit too powerful
Berserker:
The knockdown is a bit abusable
Support:
Make them utilize the welder, to define the class
Commando:
A pretty boring class
Firebug:
Get rid of the Microwave gun exploit
Demolitions:
Fix nuke, add the HX25 primary fire. Make their, y'know, explosives be better than firebugs occasional explosions. And make there be a choice in skills (anyone who doesn't choose 100% siren bypass is an idiot).
Healing darts are a bit too powerful
Berserker:
The knockdown is a bit abusable
Support:
Make them utilize the welder, to define the class
Commando:
A pretty boring class
Firebug:
Get rid of the Microwave gun exploit
Demolitions:
Fix nuke, add the HX25 primary fire. Make their, y'know, explosives be better than firebugs occasional explosions. And make there be a choice in skills (anyone who doesn't choose 100% siren bypass is an idiot).
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BERSERK:
-i like the way it went with the last buff but it might have been a bit much, id like to be a mix of tank but still take skill and be risky.
-vampire might be good if it gave less hp but on hit instead of kill, as it is is very hard for it to be a choice agains fortitude, then again fortitude is a bit too high when coupled with base resistance. 150-175 could be good.
-block skill should have an active time like parry, a 1 time attack doesnt seem good when compared to a constant buff on speed and power.
COMMANDO:
-single fire should do a bit more dmg than auto, around 25-30%, since you can do almost the same with auto and a careful finger, and dish out full auto when in need.
-larger mag on the AK.
-maybe decrease recoil per level.
SUPPORT:
not sure about this, just some ideas i think it would be nice if some of them could be implemented but not all at the same time since it could be OP.
-either a slight dmg buff to DB and switch it for tier 3 with the m4/ or buff the dmg per shell of the m4 above the aa12 but still lower per "clip". as is there's not much point to pick the m4.
-make carry capacity a base skill like in kf1 so that by last levels you can carry the last 3 shotguns.
-lower ammo price a bit, not as far as in the beggining. particulary the T1 ammo is too expensive.
-raise the spread of the T1 shotgun a bit.
-make supplier a base ability with ammo amount going up by level, while not being too much. dont care too much about this one, but a lot of drama going on.
MEDIC:
-nerf healing power a bit, as is a lot of people dont care at all about getting hit or keeping a perimeter.
-enforcer is a bit pointless at least at the start, just saves a bit of money. maybe a small incease to clip size could be good like in kf1.
-this one is purely personal taste, but weapons sounds beside the shotgun sound a bit toyish.
-filling armor while on full health and not homing is cheesy and even cheap, need some adjustments to keep the game dynamic. maybe a bigger ammount of armor but only while health is not over 90% and a limit of frequency.
DEMO:
make it stronger overall while nerfing nuke, some examples.
-slight buff to grenade pistol splash damage, make alt fire with different spread. lower ammo cost a bit, not a bad weapon and i can manage ok, but i dont see a reason why to use it instead of single or double 9mm.
-slight buff to m79 and rpg, hard to tell how much before sharpshooter.
-c4 needs some way to be more useful, too many ways have been propossed before.
-lower hans resistance to explosive a bit.
-reactive armor and door trap seem a tad weak compared to their counterpark.
-not sure about offperk.
FIREBUG.
-buff flaretov cocktail fire area, fully stocked is too good an option as is.
-make fuse do higher DOT instead of longer time, no one seems to choose it.
-make range a bit longer, splash is too good counterpart.
-nerf microwave somewhat, and make it so you dont benefit from aiming at the floor.
-i like the way it went with the last buff but it might have been a bit much, id like to be a mix of tank but still take skill and be risky.
-vampire might be good if it gave less hp but on hit instead of kill, as it is is very hard for it to be a choice agains fortitude, then again fortitude is a bit too high when coupled with base resistance. 150-175 could be good.
-block skill should have an active time like parry, a 1 time attack doesnt seem good when compared to a constant buff on speed and power.
COMMANDO:
-single fire should do a bit more dmg than auto, around 25-30%, since you can do almost the same with auto and a careful finger, and dish out full auto when in need.
-larger mag on the AK.
-maybe decrease recoil per level.
SUPPORT:
not sure about this, just some ideas i think it would be nice if some of them could be implemented but not all at the same time since it could be OP.
-either a slight dmg buff to DB and switch it for tier 3 with the m4/ or buff the dmg per shell of the m4 above the aa12 but still lower per "clip". as is there's not much point to pick the m4.
-make carry capacity a base skill like in kf1 so that by last levels you can carry the last 3 shotguns.
-lower ammo price a bit, not as far as in the beggining. particulary the T1 ammo is too expensive.
-raise the spread of the T1 shotgun a bit.
-make supplier a base ability with ammo amount going up by level, while not being too much. dont care too much about this one, but a lot of drama going on.
MEDIC:
-nerf healing power a bit, as is a lot of people dont care at all about getting hit or keeping a perimeter.
-enforcer is a bit pointless at least at the start, just saves a bit of money. maybe a small incease to clip size could be good like in kf1.
-this one is purely personal taste, but weapons sounds beside the shotgun sound a bit toyish.
-filling armor while on full health and not homing is cheesy and even cheap, need some adjustments to keep the game dynamic. maybe a bigger ammount of armor but only while health is not over 90% and a limit of frequency.
DEMO:
make it stronger overall while nerfing nuke, some examples.
-slight buff to grenade pistol splash damage, make alt fire with different spread. lower ammo cost a bit, not a bad weapon and i can manage ok, but i dont see a reason why to use it instead of single or double 9mm.
-slight buff to m79 and rpg, hard to tell how much before sharpshooter.
-c4 needs some way to be more useful, too many ways have been propossed before.
-lower hans resistance to explosive a bit.
-reactive armor and door trap seem a tad weak compared to their counterpark.
-not sure about offperk.
FIREBUG.
-buff flaretov cocktail fire area, fully stocked is too good an option as is.
-make fuse do higher DOT instead of longer time, no one seems to choose it.
-make range a bit longer, splash is too good counterpart.
-nerf microwave somewhat, and make it so you dont benefit from aiming at the floor.
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Commando
Make the SA80 more than an extremely heavy and expensive 9mm, that gets used less often than scalpel.
Don't make Comm choose permanently between single fire or full auto. That just makes the most vanilla perk in the game even less interesting, and less versatile. Make this a passive all around damage bonus and come up with a non-boring skill choice to replace this. No, something better than allowing teammates to see one type of nearly harmless trash.
Make leadership a passive, and come up with a skill choice here that actually helps the commando. Especially since with more than one commando in the game, this does nothing, literally. Currently, no other perk has as many skills that do basically nothing as commando does.
Give commando an alternate fire type of attack that helps make him more flavorful, and maybe helps his burst damage against big zeds a bit.
Put fishhooks on his grenades so they stick to zeds before detonation.
Support
Make "625% penetration" at least noticeable, lol. Currently, it barely does anything more than a shotgun in the hands of any other perk.
Give his welder the repair armor skill from the medic.
Allow him to carry 3 more grenades.
Zerk
Tone smash down to something this side of sane.
Fast run -
Make his fast run speed only work for 3 seconds after he has killed a zed.
OR...only when he is running directly toward a zed (beserking). His beserker powers shouldn't apply when running away.
The common argument for the extra speed is that he needs it to get close to zeds quickly. So this wont make any change to those who really use it that way.
Give gorefast, scrake, and FP the ability to deflect melee attacks harmlessly away with their metal weapons. Like bullet blocking, only for melee attacks. 50% chance for gorefast, 65% for scrake, 80% for FP.
Medic
Slow him down some.
Remove armor repair entirely, replace it with something more medic like. Maybe like adrenaline - grants teammate fast run for 15 seconds after being hit with a dart.
Limit the curve on homing darts to, say 10 degrees, but don't remove it entirely.
Tone down medic rifle considerably. It is strong enough to make medic a more effective all-round combatant than commando (when combined with super speed, super armor, and super self-heal).
Make Medic SMG not a pinpoint tack driver with near zero recoil. (See above about medic being a much better commando than commando) It should spray like a shotgun. He already has a one-shot-kill pistol for long range.
Firebug
Tone down shrapnel.
Tone down heatwave.
Tone down microwave gun.
Tone down firebug.
Make him less likely to obscure headshots for everyone else.
Or give us a filter to choose which perks are allowed to join a game.
Demo
Never played him.
Make the SA80 more than an extremely heavy and expensive 9mm, that gets used less often than scalpel.
Don't make Comm choose permanently between single fire or full auto. That just makes the most vanilla perk in the game even less interesting, and less versatile. Make this a passive all around damage bonus and come up with a non-boring skill choice to replace this. No, something better than allowing teammates to see one type of nearly harmless trash.
Make leadership a passive, and come up with a skill choice here that actually helps the commando. Especially since with more than one commando in the game, this does nothing, literally. Currently, no other perk has as many skills that do basically nothing as commando does.
Give commando an alternate fire type of attack that helps make him more flavorful, and maybe helps his burst damage against big zeds a bit.
Put fishhooks on his grenades so they stick to zeds before detonation.
Support
Make "625% penetration" at least noticeable, lol. Currently, it barely does anything more than a shotgun in the hands of any other perk.
Give his welder the repair armor skill from the medic.
Allow him to carry 3 more grenades.
Zerk
Tone smash down to something this side of sane.
Fast run -
Make his fast run speed only work for 3 seconds after he has killed a zed.
OR...only when he is running directly toward a zed (beserking). His beserker powers shouldn't apply when running away.
The common argument for the extra speed is that he needs it to get close to zeds quickly. So this wont make any change to those who really use it that way.
Give gorefast, scrake, and FP the ability to deflect melee attacks harmlessly away with their metal weapons. Like bullet blocking, only for melee attacks. 50% chance for gorefast, 65% for scrake, 80% for FP.
Medic
Slow him down some.
Remove armor repair entirely, replace it with something more medic like. Maybe like adrenaline - grants teammate fast run for 15 seconds after being hit with a dart.
Limit the curve on homing darts to, say 10 degrees, but don't remove it entirely.
Tone down medic rifle considerably. It is strong enough to make medic a more effective all-round combatant than commando (when combined with super speed, super armor, and super self-heal).
Make Medic SMG not a pinpoint tack driver with near zero recoil. (See above about medic being a much better commando than commando) It should spray like a shotgun. He already has a one-shot-kill pistol for long range.
Firebug
Tone down shrapnel.
Tone down heatwave.
Tone down microwave gun.
Tone down firebug.
Make him less likely to obscure headshots for everyone else.
Or give us a filter to choose which perks are allowed to join a game.
Demo
Never played him.
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Field Medic:
Lacerate skill needs to go and be replaced with something that actually does something (perhaps a reload X% faster), otherwise I like medic the way it is.
Support Specialist:
Restore ammo box pickups to give a full drum to AA12 (or at least a half-drum; five shells is sad) and give the double-barrel more than just four shells (perhaps six to eight). Then, either restore the original ammo pool sizes for shotguns to match KF1, or increase grenade capacity upon level-up like KF1. The Benelli M4 would benefit from a spread increase, too.
Commando:
Commando's probably the closest to perfect of any of the perks. Just give it back the pre-InD ammo pool sizes and I'd be happy. However, one skill from each level 15 and level 20 should be swapped so those who want both single and autofire can have them.
Berserker:
Compared to the medic, since Berserker's speed boost only applies to when holding melee, I think run speed should be increased to 30% like KF1. The base damage of the zweih
Lacerate skill needs to go and be replaced with something that actually does something (perhaps a reload X% faster), otherwise I like medic the way it is.
Support Specialist:
Restore ammo box pickups to give a full drum to AA12 (or at least a half-drum; five shells is sad) and give the double-barrel more than just four shells (perhaps six to eight). Then, either restore the original ammo pool sizes for shotguns to match KF1, or increase grenade capacity upon level-up like KF1. The Benelli M4 would benefit from a spread increase, too.
Commando:
Commando's probably the closest to perfect of any of the perks. Just give it back the pre-InD ammo pool sizes and I'd be happy. However, one skill from each level 15 and level 20 should be swapped so those who want both single and autofire can have them.
Berserker:
Compared to the medic, since Berserker's speed boost only applies to when holding melee, I think run speed should be increased to 30% like KF1. The base damage of the zweih
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commando, support, berserker, and firebug - balanced
They feel just strong enough for me; I can do everything that they are supposed to be able to do in kf1 on HoE with no issues, and they don't feel too strong to me.
Medic - Too strong / team relies too much on it
-Medic's armor repair is so strong you can just wall off zeds in a corner because it heals so fast the zeds can't out-damage the medic heals with armor.
-I think with the changes that kf2 has from kf1, the syringe should be buffed so medic is more of an optional thing (faster recovery over more firepower) as opposed to what it is now (no medic = no winning). Healing a bit more with syringe as well as changing recharge time to a flat 10 seconds and it uses 50% charge instead of half recharge time when using on allies would be a big plus.
-I think medic's armor repair should be removed and given to support if its kept in at all. Maybe make vaccination give a 10% damage resistance instead of heal armor to compensate, or what the guy above me said (make darts give 15% bonus movespeed).
Demo - Way too weak
There's a lot of problems with demo but unlike berserker, it only needs a few numbers changed to fix it instead of a huge rework.
-Nerf nuke so it just does a REASONABLE amount of aoe damage similar to a medic grenade.
-Add in the already programmed in alt-fire for the HX25 (idk why it's not in the game but I modded it in and the HX25 feels so much better with it)
-Change arm range on all explosive projectiles from 3.5meters to 1.5meters. Feels really awkward having to shoot behind things to get my shots to explode, and the way things are now, its barely possible to hurt yourself with an explosion besides grenades or detonating c4 on top of yourself. It'd be nice to actually be able to take advantage of the 90% explosive resist you get at 25 (60% passive +30% aura with the perk).
-I'd reduce consecutive explosion resistance on c4 from 50% to 80-90% so it can be used to kill larger targets. Along with this change, make c4 sell value depend on how many unused c4 you have left so it won't be OP.
-Increase RPG-7 damage enough so it can kill a FP in 4 rockets with 6 people on HoE instead of 6-7 because that's just ridiculous. Increase scrakes explosive resist with this as well so RPG does the same damage vs scrakes (nothing else needs to have higher resist because the RPG-7 should be 1 hit killing everything besides scrakes and FPs anyway).
-Decrease Hans explosive resist to 25% from 50%.
With these changes demo can do his job effectively (kill grouped up small zeds and FPs) with either C4 + M79, or HX25 + RPG-7. Adds some nice variety in the class by having 2 viable play styles.
They feel just strong enough for me; I can do everything that they are supposed to be able to do in kf1 on HoE with no issues, and they don't feel too strong to me.
Medic - Too strong / team relies too much on it
-Medic's armor repair is so strong you can just wall off zeds in a corner because it heals so fast the zeds can't out-damage the medic heals with armor.
-I think with the changes that kf2 has from kf1, the syringe should be buffed so medic is more of an optional thing (faster recovery over more firepower) as opposed to what it is now (no medic = no winning). Healing a bit more with syringe as well as changing recharge time to a flat 10 seconds and it uses 50% charge instead of half recharge time when using on allies would be a big plus.
-I think medic's armor repair should be removed and given to support if its kept in at all. Maybe make vaccination give a 10% damage resistance instead of heal armor to compensate, or what the guy above me said (make darts give 15% bonus movespeed).
Demo - Way too weak
There's a lot of problems with demo but unlike berserker, it only needs a few numbers changed to fix it instead of a huge rework.
-Nerf nuke so it just does a REASONABLE amount of aoe damage similar to a medic grenade.
-Add in the already programmed in alt-fire for the HX25 (idk why it's not in the game but I modded it in and the HX25 feels so much better with it)
-Change arm range on all explosive projectiles from 3.5meters to 1.5meters. Feels really awkward having to shoot behind things to get my shots to explode, and the way things are now, its barely possible to hurt yourself with an explosion besides grenades or detonating c4 on top of yourself. It'd be nice to actually be able to take advantage of the 90% explosive resist you get at 25 (60% passive +30% aura with the perk).
-I'd reduce consecutive explosion resistance on c4 from 50% to 80-90% so it can be used to kill larger targets. Along with this change, make c4 sell value depend on how many unused c4 you have left so it won't be OP.
-Increase RPG-7 damage enough so it can kill a FP in 4 rockets with 6 people on HoE instead of 6-7 because that's just ridiculous. Increase scrakes explosive resist with this as well so RPG does the same damage vs scrakes (nothing else needs to have higher resist because the RPG-7 should be 1 hit killing everything besides scrakes and FPs anyway).
-Decrease Hans explosive resist to 25% from 50%.
With these changes demo can do his job effectively (kill grouped up small zeds and FPs) with either C4 + M79, or HX25 + RPG-7. Adds some nice variety in the class by having 2 viable play styles.
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I see this insanity too much. The support specialist does not want to run around during a fight, chasing after zerks to repair their armor. In terms of perk lore it makes sense, but gameplay wise it's simply impractical and the opposite of fun.
I couldn't find the thread, but about a month ago a poster made a very convincing medic perk skill rework on Ideas and Suggestions. One of his lower tier suggestions was a skill called "High Impact Rounds". The medic's bullets would instantly drop a zed if the medic decapped it. I found this to be something the medic could really use since he backs up as a trash cleaner, but unlike mando, his shots don't drop zeds.
Medic's armor repair isn't "too strong" exactly. It simply suffers from what I consider buggy, unrefined mechanics. Thread below I made earlier summarizes it nicely (don't worry it has a tl;dr).
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=112030&highlight=root
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lol Nobody said he had to run around after zerks during the fight. That's the whole point. zoooom! swish!
The ability to keep everyone armored from a distance mid battle is too strong. Sorry but that's the vastly overwhelming majority opinion I've seen. And I agree.
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Don't really want to type an essay, but the short and skinny of my post is I don't feel like classes are well defined.
Just like KF1 after a few key updates, class weaknesses were pretty much compensated for by it's strengths, and while some classes still do better than others at certain things, the weaknesses of a class are not prevelant enough to truly define a class IMO.
As a quick example the KF1 Firebug lived entirely on the flamethrower, and was defined by his ability to apply continuous sustainable low to medium damage. He also got the MAC-10 (a weapon I actually despise), but his strength was that he could hold down an area vs. continuous low to mid wave pressure without being forced to retreat, even by Husks (something that gave the equivelent wave clearer, the Commando trouble)
His weakness was that his overall DPS was low, which meant enemies with high health pools such as the Scrake and Fleshpound were extremely difficult/near impossible to deal with. He had to rely on his teammates to handle these threats... and that is good!
Note: Before anyone mentions ammunition, I have continually argued that if you couldn't manage your ammo without a back up FT, then I'm sorry to say, you were just crap at the class. I never had the processing power to do any videos on it other than a couple of really short concept videos, but I really wish I did to silence everyone who complained about it.
Eventually he gets the flare guns and other burst type damage weapons, and suddenly he is taking on Scrakes, and bunging his damage in when the Fleshpound rages. His class weakness is gone, and the Firebug loses this definition as a sustained damage dealer.
KF2 sadly is designed on this idea that every class should be able to handle every type of specimen, so every class has a High DPS loadout and a sustained damage loadout. Thus the issue of poor class definition is inherited by default. This also creates the problem that team comps basically boil down to someone picks medic, and everyone else goes their personal flavour of DPS instead of thinking about what the team actually needs.
I could go on for ages about this, looking into other classes, but I feel like I'm a minority in this regard. Most people like being able to play the class they want with their preffered style of loadout. So meh.
Just like KF1 after a few key updates, class weaknesses were pretty much compensated for by it's strengths, and while some classes still do better than others at certain things, the weaknesses of a class are not prevelant enough to truly define a class IMO.
As a quick example the KF1 Firebug lived entirely on the flamethrower, and was defined by his ability to apply continuous sustainable low to medium damage. He also got the MAC-10 (a weapon I actually despise), but his strength was that he could hold down an area vs. continuous low to mid wave pressure without being forced to retreat, even by Husks (something that gave the equivelent wave clearer, the Commando trouble)
His weakness was that his overall DPS was low, which meant enemies with high health pools such as the Scrake and Fleshpound were extremely difficult/near impossible to deal with. He had to rely on his teammates to handle these threats... and that is good!
Note: Before anyone mentions ammunition, I have continually argued that if you couldn't manage your ammo without a back up FT, then I'm sorry to say, you were just crap at the class. I never had the processing power to do any videos on it other than a couple of really short concept videos, but I really wish I did to silence everyone who complained about it.
Eventually he gets the flare guns and other burst type damage weapons, and suddenly he is taking on Scrakes, and bunging his damage in when the Fleshpound rages. His class weakness is gone, and the Firebug loses this definition as a sustained damage dealer.
KF2 sadly is designed on this idea that every class should be able to handle every type of specimen, so every class has a High DPS loadout and a sustained damage loadout. Thus the issue of poor class definition is inherited by default. This also creates the problem that team comps basically boil down to someone picks medic, and everyone else goes their personal flavour of DPS instead of thinking about what the team actually needs.
I could go on for ages about this, looking into other classes, but I feel like I'm a minority in this regard. Most people like being able to play the class they want with their preffered style of loadout. So meh.
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Appeal to popularity doesn't make it any less ridiculous. If anything it shows just how uninformed many are regarding the matter. Armor repair on medic has been seamlessly integrated and requires no drastic changes, only alterations to its unrefined mechanics. As noted in the below link:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=112030&highlight=root
I'm going hammer this in, because a myriad of issues can be rectified by this alone. And it's a bug, so it requires fixing regardless.
As to throwing another mechanic onto the support, his skill tree can't handle it. None of the support skills can be removed, none (barring Regeneration), because all of them are necessary to succeed in certain matchups in higher difficulties. Due to his playstyle, support is possibly one of the most switch intense perks in the game right now: shuffling up to four guns, some of which require single shell reloads, he doesn't have the time to fumble out his welder and patch up everyone. Support would become even harder to use than he is now.
Of course, the main driving factor I see behind this ludicrous idea is that "the welder is useless". Welding is much more limited in KF2, but in KF1 it was far too good. Welding is certainly viable now, but players have to THINK when and where to weld now, and the majority of the community has yet to really maximize the effectiveness utilizing welded doors as buildup points.
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Getting a full spawn grouped up behind a welded door so you can wipe them out with one single grenade is far from useless. The things is this is apparently not the way people want to play and it makes no difference if only done once or twice over the course of an entire 10 wave game.
One problem is it's outright boring to wait until all zeds spawned behind that door while your team is chaching in on the other attack routes.
Then suddenly some lanehopping tosser decides that he can't earn money because his teammates aim quicker so maybe it's a good idea to compete with you instead. Guess what the welded door turns out an annoyance and must be removed one way or another.
That's the kind of teamdynamic I see on pubs every day and tactically welding doors is 100% against this meta.
Finally there are often only one or no doors at all where people like to camp. Doors mean you're near or inside a building which means close quarters and small time windows. People aren't stupid for prefering other locations even if it means they won't have anything to weld (not that they wanted to).
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In my opinion it's balanced, but need some changes:
Demolition:
Explosives on fleshpound should be more strong.
Firebug:
Flamethrower should be less strong.
Microware munitions should be more expensive.
Medic:
Nerf a bit all its weapons. (grenade too)
And please! I don't know if you are working on it, but resolve the clot/cyst/slasher grabbing
Demolition:
Explosives on fleshpound should be more strong.
Firebug:
Flamethrower should be less strong.
Microware munitions should be more expensive.
Medic:
Nerf a bit all its weapons. (grenade too)
And please! I don't know if you are working on it, but resolve the clot/cyst/slasher grabbing
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I voted c) because fleshpounds and scrakes + zed counts need to be seriously changed. If they do that, it will be kinda balanced in my book once this new update fixes nuke and zerkwalls. Then it's just the classes that need to be balanced out.
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If there was an option e) We should at least wait until the other remaining perks are released before considering how balanced or unbalanced it is, then that would get my vote. Of course, the most palpable issues such as Demo and a few points with the Berserker, are ones which do require immediate attention.
But as for more minor things, we still have another 4 perks to sample yet. I don't think that many people are consciously aware of the fact that once this game has all 10 perks ready and available to play, only 6 perks maximum can be played at once in any standard vanilla 6-player game, and that's assuming that every player chooses a different perk from each other, but it's more likely that in most games, only half of all available perks will be used at any given time. When all 10 perks are in the scope, you've got a wider and more representative scale to work with in terms of gauging which perks are actually fine overall and which ones really do need the tweaking. That's why ushering in the remaining perks should be the absolute #1 priority in the updates above everything else, including maps.
For example, Berserker is OP right now, but we have no idea whether TWI might duplicate or even move a few of its strengths to the Martial Artist perk, in similar fashion as to how Support gave up its grenade in the Supplier skill so that the Demo could have it instead. For all we know, the Gunslinger could turn out to be the pistolero version of the Firebug where people say it's too OP and/or the .500 Zed Collector needs a serious nerf, and the Sharpshooter might end up following a similar path as to how the Demo is going right now. There is just no way of knowing any of this until we get our hands on them.
I agree that there could be a few minor tweaks with most of the perks we already have, whether it's to do with their weapons or their skill trees, and I'm confident that TWI will tend to other changes regarding zed behaviour and any potential map issues. But as far as perk balancing is concerned, I'd prefer to see what the bigger picture has to offer so that when we go down that road, we hopefully only have to walk it once instead of repeatedly over and over again.
But as for more minor things, we still have another 4 perks to sample yet. I don't think that many people are consciously aware of the fact that once this game has all 10 perks ready and available to play, only 6 perks maximum can be played at once in any standard vanilla 6-player game, and that's assuming that every player chooses a different perk from each other, but it's more likely that in most games, only half of all available perks will be used at any given time. When all 10 perks are in the scope, you've got a wider and more representative scale to work with in terms of gauging which perks are actually fine overall and which ones really do need the tweaking. That's why ushering in the remaining perks should be the absolute #1 priority in the updates above everything else, including maps.
For example, Berserker is OP right now, but we have no idea whether TWI might duplicate or even move a few of its strengths to the Martial Artist perk, in similar fashion as to how Support gave up its grenade in the Supplier skill so that the Demo could have it instead. For all we know, the Gunslinger could turn out to be the pistolero version of the Firebug where people say it's too OP and/or the .500 Zed Collector needs a serious nerf, and the Sharpshooter might end up following a similar path as to how the Demo is going right now. There is just no way of knowing any of this until we get our hands on them.
I agree that there could be a few minor tweaks with most of the perks we already have, whether it's to do with their weapons or their skill trees, and I'm confident that TWI will tend to other changes regarding zed behaviour and any potential map issues. But as far as perk balancing is concerned, I'd prefer to see what the bigger picture has to offer so that when we go down that road, we hopefully only have to walk it once instead of repeatedly over and over again.
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The definition of Firebug I believe is that it uses incendiary weaponry, not that is deals low-power sustained fire. And why not at least have some way of dealing with every specimen? Wouldn't solo mode be obsolete if each perk couldn't deal with everything?
Assuming the game was your way, and the Demo/Sharp on your team died; suddenly a FP spawns, and what remains of your team includes a Firebug, Commando, and medic. None of these are effective at killing FP, so because your Sharp/Demo died, should the rest of the team just consider themselves dead, or should they have a chance of defeating it?
I loved KF1 to death for all the neat aspects of it like that. It was near flawless by the end of its updates.
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You are not wrong at all, that is what the game stepped away from. I'm saying I felt the game was much more of a game when players couldn't be the oneman saviour of the team without a great mix of skill, experience, and a whole lot of luck.
You think it is a shame that they can't finish because the Sharpie/Demo died. I think that is bloody great, the job of the Mando and Firebug was to ensure the Sharpie and Demo had room to operate. They in turn had to ensure that the big guys got taken down before they could ram into your team and nuke your front liners down. If players die, you have to ask why? Perhaps the crowd control classes weren't controlling enough crowd, perhaps the Sharpie missed that vital head shot and let a Scrake rage into the team, perhaps the Medic was asleep killing cralwers while the Sharpie burned out from a Husk. You had a genuine reliance on your team, and every cog mattered.
The Demo and the Sharpie classes were meant to be poor at crowd control, and struggle against continuous wave pressure. The sharpie got no damage bonus unless he scored headshots, hard vs. scores of crawlers, gorefasts and stalkers in your face while a Husk is bombing away at you. The Demo had long reload times and very little close range defences, if the gap to him got closed, it was very hard to push them back.
Now that is what in my opinion a teamwork game is about. If you screw up your role in the team, your TEAM gets punished hard. Screw up bad enough, and your team loses, you don't learn to be a top notch FPS player, there are plenty of games for that, you learn to compensate for your teammates weaknesses with your strengths. Being good at a particular classes role defined you as a player. I sucked as Commando, I was a first rate Firebug, and I was proud to be one, as I was very good at satisfying that purpose for my team.
I'm not saying updated KF1 and KF2 are bad, but I don't get along with this anyone can fight everything style of gameplay. If I, or anyone in my team fails to do their job, then I am happy to lose because of it. It made those moments when your flawless execution won the day feel so special, and those rare moments someone else held on alone to the end truly awesome, not the standard wait 15 minutes bored out of your mind par for the course. This is meant to be a teamgame. If I want to play alone, why the hell am I playing Killing Floor?
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