How are riflemen going to be balanced?

[BigG]

I ask this question because, the US standard issue was an M1 Garand, semi-automatic, 8 round clip. Then the Japanese had the standard issue Arisaka, 5 round, bolt action. Now obviously the US riflemen are going to have the upperhand with the larger clip and semi-automatic fire, as they did in real life. But this is not real life, this is a game.

I'm just curious are there going to be any attempts to balance this issue, or is the RS team planning on keeping it as realistic as possible.

 

[Mein Leben!]

I imagine the Arisaka might be more accurate and reliable (unless jamming is a feature in the game reliability doesn't really matter) because it is a bolt-action.

I also saw it mentioned in a thread somewhere that the standard Japanese bayonet was some 9 inches longer than the American counterpart, if this is true perhaps it could have a melee range advantage.

In the end though, the Garand is simply superior in some aspects, just the way the cookie crumbles.

Disclaimer: I'm not the most knowledgeable person with guns, so feel free to correct me.

 

[Alakazou]

Arisaka was a poor copy from the g98 so it suck. The accuracy suck, the rate of fire suck and it's not because a weapons is a semi automatic one it's means it's less accurate. It's mean nothing.

 

[Overholt]

I think the balanced timing affect with the bolt is probably better than trying to time it correctly with a semi auto, semi auto is better close up, I think the accuracy will be good due to the fact its a bolt unless you add the bayo.

 

[Jolon]

Nothing else in Red Orchestra excites me quite as much as using the type 99 rifle.

I trust the developers will keep it balanced and viable by map design if necessary, rather than the weapon itself- I don't think anyone would be upset if the garand was blatantly the better weapon. Balance should take a backseat to realism- and I say that as someone who intends to use the type 99 religiously.

 

[Nikita]

I also saw it mentioned in a thread somewhere that the standard Japanese bayonet was some 9 inches longer than the American counterpart, if this is true perhaps it could have a melee range advantage.

In the end though, the Garand is simply superior in some aspects, just the way the cookie crumbles.

Better melee would be awesome

Arisaka was a poor copy from the g98 so it suck. The accuracy suck, the rate of fire suck and it's not because a weapons is a semi automatic one it's means it's less accurate. It's mean nothing.

On the contrary the Type 99 rifle was a robust, Mauser-patterned rifle that was more than adequate during the first years of the war. As for semiautomatic versus bolt-action differences, that difference is actually extremely substantial. With a gas-operated semiautomatic rifle such as the Garand, the action is moving while the round is still traveling down the barrel after the trigger is pulled, displacing the weapon ever so slightly. With the bolt-action, no major mechanical motion occurs until the user actually touches the bolt.

This is the reason why, in many modern applications involving highly precise shooting, bolt-actions remain in use. Hunting, sniping, biathalon... bolt-action designs are both reliable and accurate. Sure, a very poor bolt-action weapon won't outshoot a well-made semiautomatic rifle, but in pure design terms a greater potential for accuracy lies with the bolt-action.

 

[Alakazou]

IIRC the real reason why they use bolt action for sniper rifle is just because the mechanics is less hard to clean up. Semi automatic it's complex mechanics and sniper need to have something to work in the dirtiest condition. Not because it's less accurate, just because we need simple system to clean them up.

 

[Roardk]

Late war japanese rifles Type 99 were called "last ditch" rifles because they were made of poor material's which reduced their accuracy and required more cleaning if to reduce jamming tho the early war version was good weapons 7.7 upgraded from older ver 38. 6.5

Also another fact is that japanese army had very few SMG's only around 40.000 in total in their army and mainly used for paratroopers and special forces and the fact officers had to buy their own pistols made its mark on the quality of their firearms as the junior officers could not afford quality firearms they had to go with the cheap un reliable Type 14 Nambu mainly

 

[2feathers]

IIRC the real reason why they use bolt action for sniper rifle is just because the mechanics is less hard to clean up. Semi automatic it's complex mechanics and sniper need to have something to work in the dirtiest condition. Not because it's less accurate, just because we need simple system to clean them up.

Bolt actions are inherently more accuracy, due to the fact that there are less moving parts and that autoloaders typically have slightly larger chamber dimensions than bolt actions to ease feeding, which means the chamber isn't sealed as tight.

 

[Major Johnson]

I believe there is a thread where someone brought up the point that in the beginning of the war the Marines in the Pacific had bolt action WW1 leftover rifles before the M-1 was the standard issue. I think most of the M-1's went to Europe as that was the priority at the time.


And as an after thought, I guess there can be balance if the Japanese are able to pick up the weapons of dead Marines. Granted, getting ammo might be spotty, but it's something, and I'm sure it happened in real life.

 

[Hypno Toad]

The garand is inherently just going to be a better rifle.

The best games are ones with asymmetrical balance, just because the Americans have better weapons, doesn't mean you need to beef up the Japanese wepaons to unrealsitic standards.

The Japanese should be given the homefront advantage on the map and should have good defensive positions, that'd be enough to balance out the weapons.

 

[Mein Leben!]

Agreed, the Garand is simply better in many aspects and the Japanese would usually have the advantage of terrain and it's defenses. Asymmetrical balance makes the game unique and refreshing in my opinion. With that said, it would be interesting to see the Americans with Springfields as their main battle rifle in the earlier battles.

 

[Redit]

I believe there is a thread where someone brought up the point that in the beginning of the war the Marines in the Pacific had bolt action WW1 leftover rifles before the M-1 was the standard issue. I think most of the M-1's went to Europe as that was the priority at the time

It was the Marines who were issued with Springfields while the Army got the newer weapons, the USA was not at war in Europe at the time.

 

[Oldih]

If Rising Storm does have more early-mid war focus involved as well the problem is solved simply with the Springfield rifle.

After that Hypno Toad's suggestion takes the cake.

 

[Major Johnson]

It was the Marines who were issued with Springfields while the Army got the newer weapons, the USA was not at war in Europe at the time.

Ahhh, thanks for clearing that up!

But I wonder if there were any M-1s issued to the Marines at all in the beginning? And what about smgs? While we're at it, were BAR's issued to the Marines early on??

 

[karstinpk]

Ahhh, thanks for clearing that up!

But I wonder if there were any M-1s issued to the Marines at all in the beginning? And what about smgs? While we're at it, were BAR's issued to the Marines early on??

i think marines got the M1s after their battles at Guadalcanal. they had Thompsons from the beginning and for BARs i have no idea... they might have got them towards the end of the war...

 

[Redit]

There were also Reisings issued prior to and during the Solomon campaigns, although this probably won't be added.

It was supposedly preferred over the Thompson in jungle combat because it was lighter and less bulky.

 

[Ts4EVER]

The Reising was hated. They were dumped into rivers sometimes due to being prone to jamming.

 

[Flogger23m]

The garand is inherently just going to be a better rifle.

The best games are ones with asymmetrical balance, just because the Americans have better weapons, doesn't mean you need to beef up the Japanese wepaons to unrealsitic standards.

The Japanese should be given the homefront advantage on the map and should have good defensive positions, that'd be enough to balance out the weapons.

This. Balance the gameplay out in other ways. As someone else mentioned, early on the USMC used bolt actions a lot.

 

[smith1215]

in bf1942, the japanese got gewher 43s. i think they should be implemented for the sake of balance.