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Hip shooting

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#61
If we assume besides things learned in basic training (putting the sights to your eyes) the level of training your soldier has in game is represented by how much skill you have, and a pretty experienced/good RO player is like a frontline veteran of a year (where as the elite would be like people who have been in the German Military when it was 100,000 man), I guess the question of realism is...

Could a veteran of a year or two make a hipshot from 10-15 meters at a human sized target, and more often than not hit in the chest/head region?

Since this is about the level of a "good" player imo.

This is assuming a bolt or semi-auto, SMGs are a whole other beast.

Saying its unimmersive is kind of silly imo. From what I've heard, the ranges most people hipshoot for effect in RO are about the ranges people hipshot in real life. The abundance you see is much like the abundance of nade spam, its not at because of *game design*, *lack of realism*, etc. Its because maps in this game promote a game style that encourages certian unrealistic behavior (such as ramboing.) The reasons for this have been presented in countless other threads, I will not go into them. Just look for any thread complaining about SMGs, big servers, or nades.

The changes you propose are completly bandaid fixes. If you do not like it, play maps where the ranges do not promote hipshooting. If your not willing to do that, adjust your play style so you are in less CQB (and thus less hipshooting.) For example, if I wanted to have a hipshooting free Baskan, I would just go on extreme left flank for germans (extreme right for Russians.) There is cover at keypoints, with inbetween visible open ground, so if anybody gets in hipshooting range its your own fault.
 
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#62
No, the point is that he thinks hipshooting as it is now is too unrealistic and should be "returned" to the more inaccurate state, even though: again,
1) there is absolutely no problem with hipshooting now, and
2) there is NO evidence that it changed significantly from the last patch.

In fact, the sway of the gun should be restricted to simulate the player holding the gun up to his shoulder more (but not quite using the IS).
 
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#65
I honsetly don't think this thread needs locked, if the discussion is kept sensible and all avenues are throughly looked at. I understand that in a game people will utilise any means to achieve their goals, whether it be hipshooting or using areas of maps that weren't designed to be used...all I would love to see in RO is a choice for server admins to run the game how they feel they wish to...at present I use my freedom of choice to leave a server if I don't like the run round the map , not raising my weapon once brigade....but unfortunatley , for me, this is now becoming more the norm , not the exception, within RO online. If TWI put two very small changes, as they already have to many small complaints that users felt they had, it would, in my opinion , only raise the bar for other games of similar genre to try and get to. There are other mods coming out that will try and shift RO from the top, these have features already in RO and a host of others which aren't.
I do agree that there isn't any changes with the way the game has or will be, some areas were made easier to play to attract more of the users from other games, a very smart move on behalf of TWI, but to some of the guys who have been playing RO since very early mod days can see the difference. One example was the weapon pick up, times gone by saw you having to first throw down the weapon you have, the ammo you carried etc before picking up another...this is now automatic allowing for you to run over wweapons and pick them up without even having to stop. There were problems with the way stuff lay on the ground, but instead of fixing these small issues TWI elected to change the way the pick up worked { to attract more users from the FPS who were used to this style of play } remember these changes came about after they had a free weekend where all could try the game before buying.
 
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#66
[VFD]HH said:
If we assume besides things learned in basic training (putting the sights to your eyes) the level of training your soldier has in game is represented by how much skill you have, and a pretty experienced/good RO player is like a frontline veteran of a year (where as the elite would be like people who have been in the German Military when it was 100,000 man), I guess the question of realism is...

Could a veteran of a year or two make a hipshot from 10-15 meters at a human sized target, and more often than not hit in the chest/head region?

Since this is about the level of a "good" player imo.

This is assuming a bolt or semi-auto, SMGs are a whole other beast.

Saying its unimmersive is kind of silly imo. From what I've heard, the ranges most people hipshoot for effect in RO are about the ranges people hipshot in real life. The abundance you see is much like the abundance of nade spam, its not at because of *game design*, *lack of realism*, etc. Its because maps in this game promote a game style that encourages certian unrealistic behavior (such as ramboing.) The reasons for this have been presented in countless other threads, I will not go into them. Just look for any thread complaining about SMGs, big servers, or nades.

The changes you propose are completly bandaid fixes. If you do not like it, play maps where the ranges do not promote hipshooting. If your not willing to do that, adjust your play style so you are in less CQB (and thus less hipshooting.) For example, if I wanted to have a hipshooting free Baskan, I would just go on extreme left flank for germans (extreme right for Russians.) There is cover at keypoints, with inbetween visible open ground, so if anybody gets in hipshooting range its your own fault.
Click to expand...
Finally, a post where someone here other than Puf wants to engage in actual discussion about this. Thank you for that.

The problem is, hipshots after the March update can consistently be made from distances much much further than 10-15 meters. They can be made regularly from distances of up to 75 yards and beyond, dependant on screen resolution, manner of marking ect. I've seen folks consistently make hipshots at that distance even while moving.Utterly rediculous.

Like Puff says, maybe its part of the attractant for folks that like that kind of gameplay. But IMHO, RO is what was seperated from all other FPS's out there in the realism it originaly possesed. Thats what attracted large numbers out of the gate. Now its , in a way, being compared to all the others FPS's out there, and its numbers are in a decline. Last night EST primetime, the only servers that were populated were the 50 man (2 or 3) and the 24/7 Danzig server. All the rest that were running really great maps that were conducive to teamwork and tactics were either populated with bots, or not at all .Think about that.

The realism needs to be put back in, or at least the choice given to administrators. Or it will be simply compared to the next FPS with better graphics and better game features, and tossed aside like so many beore it.
 
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#67
Nothing has changed. There was no march update. What you are talking about doesn't exist.

Of course people can shoot someone from the hip over a very long distance because they can shoot from the hip.
You wouldn't believe me, but let me tell you there are even people who won the lottery!:eek: Amazing, isn't it? I liked it better before the supposed march update, when you couldn't win a lottery. They should at least make it an option...:rolleyes:

It takes the exact same amount of skill to hip shoot now as it took before the imaginary march update and the best evidence for that is that there was no march update.

Stop complaining about patches that didn't happen and post us a video of the BUG you are experiencing. My RO works absolutely fine and if yours doesn't its either me or you who has a bug. As there is no one in here who can confirm your problem I guess is the logical step to assume the bug is on your side (or you are making things up, but hey, lets leave that one out for now). So post us a vid of your problem. Maybe we can help you to fix it. If you don't want help and/or you can't post a vid because the problem doesn't exist you prove (either way) you are a troll and nothing more.
 
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#69
I want to say several things.

1) I've made a 75 meter hipshot..once in a bluemoon. However, often, whenever I'm running at a position in the distance, it could easily be 75 meters away, and I see a person aiming at me, I will often take a hipshot. Not because I think I will hit him, but because it gives some suppressive effect. Many people, when worried about being hit, will shoot not as well, and a good enough portion will take cover, if the shot is somewhat close (often just hearing it is good enough.) Once every few games I might hit somebody doing this (its very rare) but at 50 meters I can easily get the shot into a 5 foot box around the target (which scares many people enough to take cover, and might make one thing I'm some godlike hipshooter or cheating.)

Truth is, I bet if you look at it statistically, if your pointed roughly at the target at say 75 meters away, getting it into a 5 foot box is arond hte target (by which I mean 5 feet above the targets head, 5 feet below his feet, 5 feet left of his extreme left, 5 feet right of his extreme right.) is actually very probable, but hitting him isn't.


Also, last night I was playing on Sniper RO:Ost, 32 people, and they played Kaukuses, Leningrad, Baskan, and another map (I only stayed for four, but forget what the fourth was.) I'd say Leningrad is a pretty tactical map, and Kaukuses is in that realm.

The longest range hipshot I died from was probably at 20-25 meters, from a semi-auto that was really using his ROF to try and make it work. If I stopped,crouched, IS, I could have had him (it took him 3-4 shots), but I was under MG fire too so couldn't afford too.

I'll PM you the one thing that might be affecting the test you are doing (I don't think they fixed it yet) which could be giving you your results.
 
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#71
Thanks HH. Thats pretty much precicely what I'm talking about. That is exactly the way that it was tested, and found to be different from the original version.Some have the ability to use this at great distances even while in motion. When they fix that, it will be realistic again. Also, the mods that are coming out specifically address this known issue.

Light at the end of the tunnel.
 
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#72
602RAF_Puff said:
I had posted a thread a while back asking for the same as Blkmgc...but for a different reason, hipshooting is killing the immersion factor in RO for me.Trying to play RO tactically, only to have guys running round killing from the hip consistanly can be annoying { usually leading to me leaving the servers } Historically guys did not run around using bolts, smgs { except smgs to clear rooms }firing from the hip, if the devs could put an OPTION into the server side to allow a more realistic immersive experience , in my opinion, that could only make the game more enjoyable over a wider range of clients.
Alternatively the score for kills could be removed?..when I started playing RO { back in beta 1 for the mod } there was no score for kills, only capping areas got you points. Perhaps an option in server for the removal of kill points would make for tactically immersive gaming with RO.
I didn't buy your game,I dont control your mouse and I certainly can't tell anyone how to play RO, but by adding these into server side options I could CHOOSE where and how to play RO...hopefully with no hipshooting { well maybe only close range smg room clearing } and only scoring with the caps { thus stoping the score junkies who usually do most of the hipshooting :) }
What do you guys , and hopefully Devs , think of these small changes being incorperated into the server side options.
Click to expand...

To be honest I think hip shooting is still realistic. I know I've been caught of guard by running into a room with an enemy in it and taking a hip shot with a bolt action, smg, ect.

In real war people aren't robots, they have emotions and when caught off guard not many people think to raise their iron sights to try and get a perfect shot. Usually in fear of death they make a wild shot. Some times it pays off many times it ends in death.

Sorry to get off topic but I though I'd add my own opinion to your post.
 
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#73
blkmgc said:
Thanks HH. Thats pretty much precicely what I'm talking about. That is exactly the way that it was tested, and found to be different from the original version.Some have the ability to use this at great distances even while in motion. When they fix that, it will be realistic again. Also, the mods that are coming out specifically address this known issue.

Light at the end of the tunnel.
Click to expand...
Mods coming out to fix something that's listed as being fixed in the changelog? Interesting.
 
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#74
Zips I will send you the same message that I send blkmgc to make sure we were talking about the same thing.

blkmgc, thats been a problem in RO since at least the beginning of 2007 (when these bugs were first brought to my attention) more likely since it came out. As far as I can tell, nothing has changed. And moving I've always heard messed it up.

Zips, I'll check the changelog. I remember reading somewhere on a solution that partially fixed the problem, but not completly.

Edit: Zips, I forwarded it. Tell me when you get it, for some reason I don't trust the forward feature.
 
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#79
We have other prioties than to revert things to how they were before the imaginary march patch.

First of all I would say the devs should remove the post 1985 weapons from the current maps and the sci-fi weapons altogether. It just doesn't feel right to have them on ww2 era maps.
Speaking of sci-fi weapons: The plasma rifles should do less damage to tanks. As it is now they are too powerfull. Especially against the hovercrafts.
The doubled health with the rechargable shield can stay, but only if the bolt action rifles are put back into the game.
Another important thing to restore to pre-march-patch standards is that many of us (especially clan members) want the Team Deathmatch mode back. Why was it replaced by that stupid Tabletennis/Chess/Quake3-cross anyway? Its unrealistic to the bone because the Quake3 elements just don't fit in and throw off the balance.

Only after these most important things are changed back to how they were before the march update, the devs should look into the changed hip-shooting-system.

Priorities, pritorities...
 
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