Tactics Guide For Effective Team Work

[oldsoldier173]

Good intentions, but with the gaming community being as it is don't see much in the way of cooperation from new troops, let alone the old guys.

The few of us out here that do have a 'squad' of troops willing to play cooperatively will always be the minority, unfortunately. Troops are more interested in 'bot farming' maps like apartments, padding thier skills and numbers rather than any real cooperation.

Unless the system itself is changed to 'force' some form of cooperation, the individual 'hero' type will be the dominant force. The why should I do what the commander wants when I do it this way everytime, no matter what the success rate. The smoke fiasco in games is just one prime example of the individual over the team. Or the continued 'hey diddle, diddle, charge down the middle' play style. A single elimination casuality system would stop a lot of idiocy and force cooperation, but there is no chance of that form of game system.

Yes many of us wish there was some sanity in the game, but we will just have to continue 'herding cats' and do what we can.

 

[MeFirst]

I dont think it is the player base, I think the problem lies withing the game itself and in the squad system. Especially the Squad System is overly complicated and not really comfortable to use. Roles like the Commander are by that reduced to being. The guy that calls Artillery and the guy that throws smoke grenades. .

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I don't think the squad system is difficult in itself unless you think you can look at the selection screen and absorb everything in three or less seconds.

It really does come down to the players and that can be broken down.

- You need at least halfway competent Team Leaders and Squad Leaders. If they refuse to play the role as designed, spot arty, direct squads, call in arty, whatever, no one will want to listen to them. Ex: On a server the other night, the TL was saying it wasn't possible to call in arty, he was staring at the screen and wouldn't let him. Fine except I'm spectating him because I'm dead and he is nowhere near a radio. No confidence vote there... (yeah we told him radio etc, but he seemed more preoccupied by fighting in the front lines)

- As a squad member, you have to want to play and coordinate with your squad. Some people get into it and do try to work with their Squad Leader. Others just generally follow what the entire team is doing, but not necessarily with their Squad Leader. Then you have the others (these are the annoying ones) who are strictly out for themselves and teamplay, win or lose, doesn't really matter. Personally I fall in between the obey the Squad Leader and go with the general team flow.

- If both the TL and the SL's are competent then the TL will direct the SL's who then direct the squads.

- Finally, if you are going to play using the squad system, you actually have to follow orders when possible and not be second guessing (lets face it, many people just don't want to listen).

----------------------

Obviously, this all sound difficult to achieve on public servers. You usually get a mixture of all of the above.

But, I still say its mostly up to the players.

 

[oldsoldier173]

Like with anything else in a game, the squad system needs practice and those willing to play the role as intended. It is not as hard as people believe, and players as a whole just want to do 'thier own thing' rather than cooperate.

As an example I watch as for a whole 30+ minute session on a map the Commander not once does a 'forced respawn' to keep troops in the game, nor issues any orders, but plays with the smoke and runs around hap hazzardly doing whatever suits him as the 'bots' also wander aimlessly with no direction.

As stated SL's seldom mark targets for arty, and if they do it is not what they need when arty is available, and thinking ahead, it is what they need now and usually arty is not avail for a few minutes, and by the time it is avail thier target is no longer needed and usually ends up with the commander just throwing the arty and friendly fire kills.

The commander needs to sit back and command, on the maps there is a sequence of events needed, and issueing the orders to make these events happen helps. A good commander uses his bot commands to move his forces as well as the enemy, and then issues voice commands to his human players to do things away from the bots, now that there are 'holes' now in the lines as the enemy reacts to the 'bot' move.

One addage of command, "Show the enemy what he wants to see, and when he wants to see it, and he will react to it, and then you do what you need to do as the enemy is preoccupied with what he wants to see."

Back to the squad system, practice it with your group on small low human player maps, and learn from it. Yes, it is a for this game a high learning curve, but it does work, but only when the players want it to work, and listen.

 

[danh]

I have played other games such as MMORPG, MOBA, and RTS all of which has a very high learning curve where you have insane amounts of teamwork and strategic planning. Players go to great lengths to be the best. For example, there are spreadsheets and graphs which show the theoretical damage a player would do if they had a certain armor set.

The teamwork on these games is also incredibly sophisticated compared to some fps. I am talking pubbers on these games. They know the ins and outs of everything and keep on trying to improve. Players have been playing RO2 for at least a year and once they settled into lone wolf mode, they don't seem to want to improve. My point is, the RO2 community has plateaued in skill improvement. Mainly, I think it is because no one has showed us up. We see our skill currently to be the best possible. There is no reason to improve.

However, I believe that the ability and the space to improve is there. Its in the teamwork and the squad work. If you believe this game is just about getting the highest score or highest amount of kills so that you can "carry" your team to victory then you aren't really working in a team like the game should be played. Here is a sort of a bad analogy but you can apply this idea to sports such as basketball or football. Everyone on the team is working together and making sure they do their part. If you want to go further, then I can guess you can think of this game as a military game where you and your unit depend on each other to finish the mission by capturing objectives.

I think we will see a big change in the game once TWIL is up to speed.

 

[LugNut]

Thanks for the explanation Danh, it is a well thought out post.

There's several reasons the whole command system isn't effective aside from calling arty and throwing smoke.

The interest in coordinated play can obviously vary on pub servers. I do find people, usually regulars, working together in ad hoc fireteams on the servers I frequent, but one fail is that it's pretty much impossible to recognize fellow squadmates in the chaos of the battlefield. Or see where they are on the map so you can respawn nearby.

A mobile spawn is good and all but it should be used to regroup and prepare for next move.

Pace and timing. This game is built around: Spawn-rush to battle-fight-die-respawn. On many maps, there is barely enough time to cap all objectives and none to coordinate/regroup a squad or fireteam. It's pretty much pile everyone into the capzone ASAP all the time.

No ready up time. The race is on once the splashscreen clears to pick your favorite weapon, no one bothers with the squad menu and there isn't any time for the TL to coordinate anything before the map loads. If there was a 2 or 3 minute ready up before each round, there'd be a chance to form and communicate some strategy, readjust squads etc. This is a huge reason IMO and an easy one to fix.

Plus, as has been pointed out, make picking a squad slot the only way to join.

And, maybe, add spawn on SL to Classic, or at least make it an option. I have mixed feelings on this, I like that it makes the journey back to battle longer without, but it makes it effectively impossible to stay with your SL.

 

[danh]

Thanks for the explanation Danh, it is a well thought out post.

There's several reasons the whole command system isn't effective aside from calling arty and throwing smoke.

The interest in coordinated play can obviously vary on pub servers. I do find people, usually regulars, working together in ad hoc fireteams on the servers I frequent, but one fail is that it's pretty much impossible to recognize fellow squadmates in the chaos of the battlefield. Or see where they are on the map so you can respawn nearby.



Pace and timing. This game is built around: Spawn-rush to battle-fight-die-respawn. On many maps, there is barely enough time to cap all objectives and none to coordinate/regroup a squad or fireteam. It's pretty much pile everyone into the capzone ASAP all the time.

No ready up time. The race is on once the splashscreen clears to pick your favorite weapon, no one bothers with the squad menu and there isn't any time for the TL to coordinate anything before the map loads. If there was a 2 or 3 minute ready up before each round, there'd be a chance to form and communicate some strategy, readjust squads etc. This is a huge reason IMO and an easy one to fix.

Plus, as has been pointed out, make picking a squad slot the only way to join.

And, maybe, add spawn on SL to Classic, or at least make it an option. I have mixed feelings on this, I like that it makes the journey back to battle longer without, but it makes it effectively impossible to stay with your SL.

Ready up is in the game. Server admins disabled it. You can set how long the timer should be for the ready up.

 

[LugNut]

Ah, thanks, I didn't know this.

Well, maybe admins will take note of it.

 

[Floyd]

Great post, dahn!! :IS2: :IS2:

I didn't consider myself to be an RO noob, yet I learned a lot of things I didn't know before. I often wondered why I had the option to spawn on SL or the MG. Now I know. Sad thing is, I play SL quite often but didn't understand the fireteams

I think one reason that squad use is not what is should be in RO2 is related to the smaller more linear maps. Its simply not necessary to team up on most maps. As long as the team is quasi working together, most objectives can be met. Maps such as the custom RO1 Berezina, TractorWorks, Parizerplatz (just to name a few) would have benefited greatly from this squad system. I quite imagine that a well co-ordinated Axis team in Berizina would crush the Soviets in minutes, for example.

Having said that however, I can see where the Soviets in Commisar's House and even Red October Factory would benefit from coordinated squads. We're generally in the "action" so quickly in RO2 that the fun is in the quick killing and capping as opposed to patient organization.

Lack of knowledge of the system, (as mentioned above), the default menu screen (admin's should really consider changing to the squad menu), and the fast paced nature of the game and most maps all contribute to the lack of really good squad play.

Your post is excellent and should be required reading for all players. Get it up on the wiki, for sure. Better yet, as many of RO's new players are big Steam users, put it up as a guide in Steam. Perhaps the game will take on new life. It would be fun to have a knowledgeable squad and its fireteams become the norm.

 

[danh]

Personally, the fun factor would increase so much more if played this way. And as a bonus, we would find much more enjoyment in losing or winning because of the excellent teamwork.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Personally, the fun factor would increase so much more if played this way. And as a bonus, we would find more more enjoyment in losing or winning because of the excellent teamwork.

Agreed, 100% for me

 

[Jorma]

Hey, a suggestion guys. Why not we who's read this thread and want to work as a team, add a tag like (TP) (for teamplay, teamplayer?) or something, so we could tell who are up to playing as a team?

This way we could recognize other players who want to work as a team and start forming squads at public games when we see each other with the tag. And if it starts working out maybe some people start to wonder who are these (TP) guys and we could explain it to them and maybe some likeminded people out there playing would want to add the tag to their names, to show they want to work as a team.

If some people would be up to something like that I would be in at least.

Just a suggestion, and forgive my english it's not my mother tongue.

 

[danh]

Hey, a suggestion guys. Why not we who's read this thread and want to work as a team, add a tag like (TP) (for teamplay, teamplayer?) or something, so we could tell who are up to playing as a team?

This way we could recognize other players who want to work as a team and start forming squads at public games when we see each other with the tag. And if it starts working out maybe some people start to wonder who are these (TP) guys and we could explain it to them and maybe some likeminded people out there playing would want to add the tag to their names, to show they want to work as a team.

If some people would be up to something like that I would be in at least.

Just a suggestion, and forgive my english it's not my mother tongue.

I will do it.

http://i.imgur.com/HxoMCsC.jpg

 

[Jorma]

Ok, I've added it too. Anyone else with us?

 

[danh]

I was SL today and used squad chat and me and 2 other guys had great fun working together.

 

[Blitzk.-Bob]

I will do it.

http://i.imgur.com/HxoMCsC.jpg

Great idea danh.
What about a thread in the general discussions forum for this?

The [OdW] Clan plans to get a custom map fight night running, would be nice to turn it into a TP fight night :=)

Thank you!

 

[Catalavos]

Great idea! Added [TP] to my Steam name, too.

 

[danh]

Hi guys. Join the group. I am setting events so we can play together and try out the tactics.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/RedOrchestra2TP

 

[Maj. Belov |1st RD|]

Hi Danh, I'm wondering whether it's possible for me to use your first post as a script for a video I'm doing with my voice acting for how to use effective team work in Ro2, A Tutorial Series. Obviously I will affiliate you on my channel, and plug all credit, and provide links to the original source?

It will most likely be narrated in this voice

Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad Voices - YouTube

Thanks

 

[danh]

It's fine. You can use whatever you want, even the elements in the guide. Just credit me and make sure to mention my group. We need to do all we can to improve the gameplay!