Grenades?.. There where plenty of grenades in Stalingrad, Assault class in Ro:HOS?

[sturmfuhrer]

Basically, as I dont want grenade spamming in Ro:HOS, perhaps give standard Infantry none or perhaps 1 after leveling up, however, assault class infantry should be given many, for example as seen in this picture which is from Stalingrad.


ALSO

Will grenades roll on the ground? This would make it alot harder to accurately grenade someone, thereby reducing its effectiveness and spammability.

In campaign mode, the German's could possibly be given more grenades to start the initial offensive, eventually pittering out as the move further and further away from their supply point?


7 Men = 23 grenades !

Sturm

 

[LemoN]

Unless you have some sort of magic solution for players to use grenades in a realistic way, I vouch for 1 grenade maximum per player, with some classes even getting none.

Grenade-spam is and will be bad enough, especially since TWI doesn't recognise nade-spam as a problem in RO:Ost.

 

[sturmfuhrer]

Well like I suggested, in Red Orchestra ostfront the main reason why grenade spamming was so effective was because the grendes didint move when they hit the ground, i.e the stuck to what ever surface like velcrow, in reality they would bounce, and roll over everything, i.e throwing a grenade at rubble would likely result in the grenade rolling back down to you.

I think this addition alone, making grenades roll off of surfaces would reduce the impact of grenades thus allowing more into circulation (But only for assault classes).

Maybe as Assault classes level up, their choices of upgrade could be;

Level 1: 1 Grenades
Level 2: 2 Grenades
Level 3: MkB42 or 3 Grenades

I mean 3 badly placed grenades isnt going to be as effective as an expert shot with the Mkb42 is it?

Sturm

 

[Welshie]

Simple, You get 2 Grenades PER Map.....So if You die 20 times, You'll only get to throw 2 Grenades, if the Perk system can carry over after death, the Grenade count should do the same

 

[RedGuardist]

Like mentioned before also in some other thread, there should be a dedicated grenadier class, where the assault soldier would have grenade pouches and maybe 6 to 10 grenades. That soldier would be very crucial for the succes of the combat, so he would need protection from his squad and it would increase teamplay and add depth in game. Plus it would be completely realistic, as both sides used soldiers like that in assault teams. And then they could also decrease the amount of nades from the other soldiers. But still also riflemen should have one grenade. Machinegunners plus other support guys would not need any grenades.

 

[Bobdog]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the problem with grenades in Ostfront is caused by too many people on too small of a map, not too many grenades in general. Since HoS will have maps designed for 64 players, this shouldn't be a problem until someone tries to significantly raise the playerlimit.

 

[LemoN]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the problem with grenades in Ostfront is caused by too many people on too small of a map, not too many grenades in general. Since HoS will have maps designed for 64 players, this shouldn't be a problem until someone tries to significantly raise the playerlimit.

I disagree, the main reason for RO's problem with grenades is their general unrealistic usage

 

[[5GTA] Juan]

According to the soviet testimonies I have read, the doctrine is "be grenades your doorbell"... so I understand they carry at least 2 each soldier...

 

[Schreq]

It's a mixture of both. On Danzig for example it's a whole team nade spamming and without it, there are still people who use nades as their primary weapons.
I consider both to be nadespam and both are annoying.

 

[Nimsky]

Nadespam is only a problem on small to medium maps with narrow chokepoints, as most RO:O maps are. In big maps (and I mean, BIG, like Kriegstadt) it's not really a problem at all. Darkest Hour-style maps can also help. By that I mean maps that are medium-to-large-sized and have like ten objectives and lots of nooks and crannies and stairways you can climb or hide behind. Longer weapon switch times would also help.

There are many ways by which nadespam can be solved but as Lemon said, I don't think TWI recognizes it as a problem. But it's been a problem since the mod.

 

[slavek]

There are many ways by which nadespam can be solved but as Lemon said, I don't think TWI recognizes it as a problem. But it's been a problem since the mod.

Ahh yes, nuclear grenades from the mod.

Better physics for the grenades would be nice. It would make accurate placing more difficult. As for spam, it would probably be up to the mapper. What I have done in some maps is have a separate duplicate rifleman/assault class that has grenades and a class limit while all the other players don't get grenades.

 

[Nicholas]

I think it should be....

2 grenades for assault calss

1 grenade for riflemen

0 for everyone else

 

[REZ]

I'm with Tripwire on this one. There is no 'nadespam' only people who don't like being killed by grenades.


Guys, we're moving into the battle of Stalingrad.. where grenades were used en masse. They were cheap to make and highly effective for the fighting conditions in Stalingrad. Put on your big girl panties and get ready to be blown up

 

[LemoN]

I'm with Tripwire on this one. There is no 'nadespam' only people who don't like being killed by grenades.

No, I wouldn't care if I'd be killed by a grenade, as long as it's used in a realistic manner. Look up military training manuals or study combat reports and footage to see what I mean.

I simply can't stand the sight someone switching to his grenade while circle-strafing around, cooking it and throwing it into someone's face. That kills my immersion more than a "so real bloody screen" or a quick-knife lunge of 5 feet.

Guys, we're moving into the battle of Stalingrad.. where grenades were used en masse.

Indeed, but they were used VERY differently from the grenades you see being used in RO:Ost.

Most of them were used in a defensive manner as of denying an area, or used in an offensive manner like clearing rooms, stairways, trenches, bunkers, etc.

Give me ONE SINGLE combat report of a soldier throwing his grenade over a block of buildings into the alley and into the face of 3 enemies running there as it's the only way forward.

 

[sturmfuhrer]

Maybe if tripwire decreased the height at which grenades could be thrown, then it would be impossible to throw over house.

I.e increase the weight of grenades to realistic levels.

1 - Possibility to throw higher, but less further when standing still.

2 - Possibility to throw longer, but with reduced height when running.

Sturm

 

[REZ]

Lemon, it's known that grenades were a huge part of the battle in Stalingrad in many different situations. Limiting the amount per player isnt going to stop anyone from throwing one over a building, into an area where they know enemies have to run through or at their feet in a 'circle-strafe' as you call it. It's ridiculous to think that people wont do this and to say something like - 'I dont care if I'm killed by one as long as it's in a realistic manner according to some training doctrine written up somewhere in an administration office'. That's just how it happens in video games, you can't really stop it from happening unless you make the physics surrounding the grenades highly unrealistic (for example making them too heavy and unable to be thrown far, or limiting them to one per player as though that's going to somehow change the way they are used)

In addition to that.. it doesnt work that way in the thick of things, people in battle do insane/amazing things to stay alive or to kill the enemy and all of the scenarios in which grenades were used were not 'recorded' somewhere. You have no idea if real soldiers did or did not in some situation throw a grenade way over the top of a destroyed building knowing there were enemies in that general vicinity. You just dont know if that ever happed or it didnt. So dont say it's unrealistic.

If I were to stick with your logic I could easily say - 'Yeah, well, I'm sick and tired of the bullet spam in this game, sooo, let's limit it to one Pa-Pa-Sha per map since people dont use them according to training manuals'.. 'Yeah, they way they walk around in circles and use half a clip in a guys face is soo unrealistic, I think we should limit these guns'.. 'Machine guns too, they're always spamming those in unrealistic ways, setting up in places not taught by military manuals'..

 

[LemoN]

And that's where we disagree.

I'd rather have it like in ArmA where a player can't throw a grenade while running. Makes for WAY more realistic usage of grenades. Sure, you'll have a couple of limitations but for me the outcome is more important.

I think it's fairly hilarious that you argue with the point of "realism" in favour of nade-spam while completely ignoring the glaring problem of their COMPLETELY unrealistic usage in-game. And I have asked you to provide a combat report (like: B-company used it's superior nade-tillery with every soldier either throwing his grenades over the next building or using them instead of guns in the open), yet you didn't include it.

Seriously, I'm giggling like a schoolgirl right now, given your hilarious logic.

 

[kainhall]

you CAN and peopel DID throw nades while running..... even easter eggs fuill of BB's and a firecracker in teh middle i light and threw at people. i also stood still and threw them.

i dont think you should automaticly pull out another nade in 1/2 a second liek is OST, but insted go to your rifle, then have to press/scroll to get the nade again. this way hte first oen has gone BOOM by the tiem the second one is pulled out.

we all have thrown 2 nades in 2 seconds in OST!! the above would fix that!


0----------------
nades are powerfull...but thats realistic....however, if nades bouinced and rolled, it would make it so mutch harder...or it would make epic nade throws......in the rain gutter, off the car hood...in to the guys lap...bang!

kinda like in happy gilmore...onyl with nades!!!

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if i had 4 nades, i would throw them untel i did not see peopel movign anymore. you have them, use them!! squads in ww2 did not have that many nades BECSUE THEY USED THEM ALL UP ALREADY!!!!!

if you throw all your nades to kill 1 person...then you find 5 in a house....guess you should have saved them.

 

[LemoN]

you CAN and peopel DID throw nades while running.....

Agreed, but that's not the point.

The main question would be... did soldiers use their grenades in the way 90% of all Ostfront players do?

 

[REZ]

@Lemon

Is it impossible for a human to run and throw a grenade at the same time? You can walk and chew gum at the same time can't you?

..and I find it funny that you have a problem with the usage of grenades but not with how the guns are used (bullet spam?) or how people seemingly run about on maps doing their own thing (free thinking spam?). Why pick one and not the other. Maybe it's because you dont like dieing by grenade.

You keep using the term 'unrealistic usage' when in fact you dont know how they were realistically used in every little dire situation during the battle of Stalingrad. Training manuals and a handful of stories can't account for the hundreds if not thousands of deaths caused by grenades, so you can let go of that 'unrealistic usage' thing. You simply do not know what realistic usage is unless your *** was there. Give me a combat report where it said we 'Company B' didnt throw our nades as far as we could because the training manual said 'dont do it that way'. Tell me of one single battle in the entire history of warfare where the soldiers followed training manuals to the letter no matter what.

I'm not arguing in the favor of 'nade spam', I just dont believe in that term. I think it was made up by people who dont like dieing by grenades. I also realize and accept the fact that this is a video game being played by people behind a computer monitor - argue that one.

I bet the soldiers in Stalingrad hated 'nade spam' too. Artillery spam.. bullet spam.. tank spam.. death spam.. etc.