Forum Opinion on Tank Bailing Poll

[Fedorov]

say in cap- who said you still count toward a cap or equal the same amount as a tank.

You wouldn't, Yoshiro said even if they could bail out, they wouldn't give them cap power.

continue fighting - you should be in a tank not running around with a hand gun.

happened in real life - lots of things happen in real life that can't be modeled 100%.

agreed

 

[Major Liability]

Have none of you tankers who are saying it is useless to bail out EVER killed an enemy with your pistol and taken his PTRD/Panzerfaust/satchel charge? Because that sort of thing is fairly typical for me, I've gotten several tank kills on foot as a bailed tanker, even on the huge maps like Arad with almost no cover. Once took a Panzer and a Tiger with some satchel charges I found on a German who wandered too close to my damaged tank. Took a lot of patience, waiting till the German tankers were distracted with my team's tanks, but I crawled all the way out there and got them both. The best part was the Tiger knew I was coming and tried to cover my approach but he was too busy with our tanks to stop me. Has to have been the most satisfying round I ever played on a tank map.

That's the real reason I want to be able to bail.

 

[Fedorov]

Have none of you tankers who are saying it is useless to bail out EVER killed an enemy with your pistol and taken his PTRD/Panzerfaust/satchel charge? Because that sort of thing is fairly typical for me, I've gotten several tank kills on foot as a bailed tanker, even on the huge maps like Arad with almost no cover. Once took a Panzer and a Tiger with some satchel charges I found on a German who wandered too close to my damaged tank. Took a lot of patience, waiting till the German tankers were distracted with my team's tanks, but I crawled all the way out there and got them both. Has to have been the most satisfying round I ever played on a tank map.

That's the real reason I want to be able to bail.

better chance taking AT infantry class to do that, cause the only reason you were able to do that is because the bailing out of RO:O don't have animation. If they were going to add properly bailing out with animation and all it would be useless most of the time, as you'd be dead before you are out, making the whole feature even more pointless.

 

[Mormegil]

Have none of you tankers who are saying it is useless to bail out EVER killed an enemy with your pistol and taken his PTRD/Panzerfaust/satchel charge? Because that sort of thing is fairly typical for me, I've gotten several tank kills on foot as a bailed tanker, even on the huge maps like Arad with almost no cover. Once took a Panzer and a Tiger with some satchel charges I found on a German who wandered too close to my damaged tank. Took a lot of patience, waiting till the German tankers were distracted with my team's tanks, but I crawled all the way out there and got them both. The best part was the Tiger knew I was coming and tried to cover my approach but he was too busy with our tanks to stop me. Has to have been the most satisfying round I ever played on a tank map.

That's the real reason I want to be able to bail.

Essentially, you want to be Rambo. My guess is there are other games that do a better job at being Rambo than ROHOS.

I know it's fun, and very satisfying. I've done it myself. So is making headshots with my railgun in Quake. But I think ROHOS is going for a different game dynamic.

 

[Major Liability]

So really it's just a matter of forcing a diverse group of players to do exactly what you want, to play exactly how you want them to. Sounds boring.

Sure you can be a rambo in the faster paced games out there, but do you honestly believe any of them are as good as RO? The very thing that makes it so fun when you pull it off in RO is how hard it is to achieve in a realistic game.

 

[Fedorov]

So really it's just a matter of forcing a diverse group of players to do exactly what you want, to play exactly how you want them to. Sounds boring.

That is as if a cheater was saying: "you want to force me to play exactly how you want and not use cheats!"

The very thing that makes it so fun when you pull it off in RO is how hard it is to achieve in a realistic game.

but when you do that it stops being realistic, which defeats the purpose.

 

[Hans Ludwig]

That is as if a cheater was saying: "you want to force me to play exactly how you want and not use cheats!"

That has to be one of the dumbest analogies I have ever heard. It doesn't even have anything remotely to do what the poster was saying.

 

[Nimsky]

So really it's just a matter of forcing a diverse group of players to do exactly what you want, to play exactly how you want them to. Sounds boring.

No, it's just that the whole concept of RO is realism as it has always been. Therefore, gamey features like bailing out don't belong in the game.

Also lol @ the loonies who call people "fanboys" just because they agree with TWI's decision to remove bailing. Keep on trollin', let's see what you can come up with.

 

[Fedorov]

That has to be one of the dumbest analogies I have ever heard. It doesn't even have anything remotely to do what the poster was saying.

It feels as a compliment when it comes from you.

 

[Ender]

Have none of you tankers who are saying it is useless to bail out EVER killed an enemy with your pistol and taken his PTRD/Panzerfaust/satchel charge? Because that sort of thing is fairly typical for me, I've gotten several tank kills on foot as a bailed tanker, even on the huge maps like Arad with almost no cover. Once took a Panzer and a Tiger with some satchel charges I found on a German who wandered too close to my damaged tank. Took a lot of patience, waiting till the German tankers were distracted with my team's tanks, but I crawled all the way out there and got them both. The best part was the Tiger knew I was coming and tried to cover my approach but he was too busy with our tanks to stop me. Has to have been the most satisfying round I ever played on a tank map.

That's the real reason I want to be able to bail.

I am not going to say its not cool doing this because I done it myself but look what you give up for just the possibility that you can do this. Most of the time I jump out I am stuck in a field and spend the rest of my time waiting to be pick up or get pick off by a hull gun. The whole time this is going on I am not contributing to my team. You also give up sticking with your tank crew. I don't know how you would fix a split up crew be it AI or all real people bailing would break the new feature of keeping crews spawning together.

 

[Reise]

So really it's just a matter of forcing a diverse group of players to do exactly what you want, to play exactly how you want them to. Sounds boring.

Sure you can be a rambo in the faster paced games out there, but do you honestly believe any of them are as good as RO? The very thing that makes it so fun when you pull it off in RO is how hard it is to achieve in a realistic game.

Every game has rules.

 

[Major Liability]

That is as if a cheater was saying: "you want to force me to play exactly how you want and not use cheats!"

Yeah, because it's so much harder to kill a guy with a pistol than his TANK. Makes sense.

Most of the time I jump out I am stuck in a field and spend the rest of my time waiting to be pick up or get pick off by a hull gun.

Kill yourself. Same effect as scuttling.


You will not achieve realism by restricting the players actions (especially by denying them the realistic ability to open a hatch and climb out of their vehicle). If you want realism, you must join a realism clan or play in organized scrims where you are assigned squads and are not allowed to respawn. Trying to force people to play "realistically" on pubs is a joke, especially in a game where you are able to respawn. The entire reason rambo tactics can be so effective is because many pub teams are so incompetent and disorganized it doesn't matter what tactic you use.

Just my perspective. I don't expect Tripwire to change their minds, nor would I want them too since they are the ones with the big picture of balance in mind.

 

[Nimsky]

I think the most important thing that people need to know is: you can still bail out of your disabled tank, it's just that in RO2 you need to scuttle the tank in order to do it. And you spawn in a new tank right away so you don't have to run all the way back to spawn.

 

[Mormegil]

You will not achieve realism by restricting the players actions (especially by denying them the realistic ability to open a hatch and climb out of their vehicle). If you want realism, you must join a realism clan or play in organized scrims where you are assigned squads and are not allowed to respawn. Trying to force people to play "realistically" on pubs is a joke, especially in a game where you are able to respawn. The entire reason rambo tactics can be so effective is because many pub teams are so incompetent and disorganized it doesn't matter what tactic you use.

I think TWI came up with Count-Down for that reason. You won't respawn.

I would argue people play RO more realistically than Day of Defeat or CoD. So I'm pretty sure you can get players to act more realistically without getting them to join realism clans.

An unrealistic thing with realism clans (I would think) is it's hard to get a 32v32 scrim with them. It may be more unrealistic to take a map with a single squad of 5 soldiers than a platoon of 32.

 

[hockeywarrior]

I think the most important thing that people need to know is: you can still bail out of your disabled tank, it's just that in RO2 you need to scuttle the tank in order to do it. And you spawn in a new tank right away so you don't have to run all the way back to spawn.

Actually, yeah, this is the best and simplest way of describing the new system.

 

[fiftyone]

So I drive my tank to the East Field (for want of a better name), knowing that the enemy will see the cap indicator and take the necessary action to to try and counter balance the situation.

I then wait until the appropriate moment, scuttle my tank, bail out, re-spawn and head directly to the West Field (for want of a better name), completely destabilizing the enemy counter attack in the Eastern Field.

I don't think so...

When is this game coming out...?

I'll think I'll just sit back and wait for the release.

 

[Grobut]

You will not achieve realism by restricting the players actions (especially by denying them the realistic ability to open a hatch and climb out of their vehicle).

But you do, that is exactly what realism games are about, why do you think any realism game worth it's salt has mechanics in place to prevent things like Bunnyhopping for instance?

Technically, Bunnyhopping could be done in real life for shorter periods of time, people can jump, so it's possible, so to make a true 1:1 scale realism experiance, then technically, it should be possible, but it's allways restricted, why? well because people abuse it, you don't see WWII footage (or any other war) where real soldiers bounce around like that, but if you allow it in a game, you will see it all the bloody time, because a game is not real, there is no real fear of death or anything else in a game (and that includes games with no respawns, you don't physically die in thouse either, you just have to wait a few minutes).

If you want realism, you must join a realism clan or play in organized scrims where you are assigned squads and are not allowed to respawn. Trying to force people to play "realistically" on pubs is a joke, especially in a game where you are able to respawn.

Bull, and easilly disproven, go join a pub game of say.. Cod1/2 or DoD:S, have a look at how people play thouse, then go join a pub game of ROOST (infantry only, to be a fair comparison) and see the difference, and belive me there is a difference.

What you wont get in pub games is organized team tactics, atleast never to the same extent that it's possible in an organized clan, that much is true, but that doesen't mean you can't get realistic individual tactics and movement and a semi coherent team effort in pub games, you can, but the game has to be well designed for it to happen.

And no, taking away respawns is no garuentee that people will play it in a more realistic manner, infact it can work the exact opposite, it all comes down to how the game is designed.

In ROOST, the object of the game was to get players into the capzones, but how well does that work without respawns? well i've tried that thanks to a mutator, and it doesen't, instead, people would hide in far away corners of the maps whenever possible, and gladly let the enemy take the caps just to stay alive.
How's that real? in the real life military, they don't let you run off and hide just because the objective may be dangerous, you've got orders to follow, and to turn your back on thouse because you're chicken is desertion.

Taking away respawns may be a good way to make players value their life a little more, but in objective based gametypes, that's not allways a good thing, because people will allways try to play such games as TDM matches, rather than risking going for the objective, unless you find a damn good way of stopping them from doing that (we'll see how Ro2 handles it, but im sceptical).

The entire reason rambo tactics can be so effective is because many pub teams are so incompetent and disorganized it doesn't matter what tactic you use.

No, the entire reason is because you can, because ROOST failed to encourage dismounted tankers to do the realistic thing (run back to spawn), and instead made it fun for them to do selfish, unrealistic and gamey things.

This is my problem with your argument, you say dismounting should be in because it's "realistic", but everything else you say betray that that's not why you want it at all, you want it so you can go play Rambo-tanker, for your own selfish amusement, with no regard for realism or the wellfare of your team, just so you can go get your rocks off.

Why should i or anyone else want to encourage that? why should TWI? why should we allow tanks to become the equivalent to the "Shield-belt" powerup from the Unreal Tournament games, just so you can go "pwnz tha servorz" a little longer than you could as an infantry class?


No thanks mate, if you're going to tie up one of the teams tanker slots, then i want to see you tanking, and doing your job for the team, not waste a third of the match crawling around on your belly, to maybe, MAYBE take out one solitary enemy tank with a captured AT weapon, and i sure as hell don't want to see you in the capzones of CA maps, because 1) you wont have any capping power anyway, and 2) if you're there, then where the

 

[dogbadger]

Have none of you tankers who are saying it is useless to bail out EVER killed an enemy with your pistol and ~ (various WW2-action-stories-for-boys antics...)

I think a few people might be saying it's inappropriate - rather than useless - to bail from tanks because they have seen, done and know that ppl will do exactly this if given the opportunity.

 

[Mormegil]

So I drive my tank to the East Field (for want of a better name), knowing that the enemy will see the cap indicator and take the necessary action to to try and counter balance the situation.

I then wait until the appropriate moment, scuttle my tank, bail out, re-spawn and head directly to the West Field (for want of a better name), completely destabilizing the enemy counter attack in the Eastern Field.

Which can be done now in ROOST. It's called the "suicide" command in console.

 

[Knil]

I'm not a fan of restricting actions to force people to play a certain way, because I believe in freedom with penalties if that action being performed is not a intended mechanic. (ex. score penalties for TKs and eventual auto kick)