Tactics Engineers and The Tank

[oldsoldier173]

On of the most effective uses of engineers in the game is to be the 'escorts' to the tanks, clearing obstacles, preventing the charging AT gunner or enemy engineers the ability to get close with AT grenades/satchels, and being additional eyes for the tank crew.


Many see problems in keeping infantry with the Tank, but there is a class perfect for the role and not utilized in the game as such. All those experience points for blowing obstacles make promotion pretty rapid in the class as well.

 

[Jank]

It does however offer any enemy infantryman a good chance to destroy the tank.


Shoot the engineer. Grab his satchel. Blow up the tank. All the while the tank would be basically blind to his impending doom.


As an engineer, I tend to try to stay away from my team's tank, to prevent my anti-tank capabilities from falling into enemy hands so close to my own tank.

 

[oldsoldier173]

There are pro's and con's to any role. If a force is allowing enemy forces to get that close to the tank the whole team is doing something wrong, and I have stated over and over again the tank is a support vehicle in the game not an assault vehicle, should be behind the line of infantry it is supporting, not ahead of it where enemy engineers of whoever can get that close to it.

 

[morticore]

Personally I think engineer should be as far as possible from own tank (except is of course blowing up obstacles ). I wrecked so many tanks in my life by stolen explsives

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Many see problems in keeping infantry with the Tank, but there is a class perfect for the role and not utilized in the game as such. All those experience points for blowing obstacles make promotion pretty rapid in the class as well.

Just infantry in general should be escorting the tanks on combined arms maps to protect them from other enemy infantry.

 

[ro2player]

Shoot the engineer. Grab his satchel. Blow up the tank. All the while the tank would be basically blind to his impending doom.

Requiem for a tank...

Saper should do their work. Not closed to friend panzer. But closest to the enemy tank.
Jank Morticore and Moe, you are right.
A panzer need to be protected by troop.

I have stated over and over again the tank is a support vehicle in the game not an assault vehicle, should be behind the line of infantry it is supporting, not ahead of it where enemy engineers of whoever can get that close to it.

Oldsoldier is right when he said panzer should support infantry. (with HE bullets and mg against buidling)
A panzer need to protected his troop.

 

[stern]

the idea makes sense, you need pioneers to help with obstacles etc.

however dying next to your teams tank with a 4 lots of high explosive, is kinda just giving the opponent an open door to a tank destruction. an assault trooper would be better there, but then you remove an smg from the attack.

best way is to be a forward pioneer, get things destroyed and cleared long before the tank gets there. thats how i do it, on mysok river ive often got the route open long before the tank is even on the same street, plus the baddies never expect forward demo charges so you can often do it with out getting shot at.
same on bridges, but the bridge takes patience so ya dont kill all the sheep running into the cap, rest of the traps, its a hard map to infiltrate but it can be done.

 

[ro2player]

the idea makes sense, you need pioneers to help with obstacles etc.

however dying next to your teams tank with a 4 lots of high explosive, is kinda just giving the opponent an open door to a tank destruction. an assault trooper would be better there, but then you remove an smg from the attack.

best way is to be a forward pioneer, get things destroyed and cleared long before the tank gets there. thats how i do it, on mysok river ive often got the route open long before the tank is even on the same street, plus the baddies never expect forward demo charges so you can often do it with out getting shot at.
same on bridges, but the bridge takes patience so ya dont kill all the sheep running into the cap, rest of the traps, its a hard map to infiltrate but it can be done.

Stern,
Where your panzer is, pioneer should not be !
Where enemy panzer is, pioneer should be !

If panzer need help to destroy obstacles, so one soldier infantry of the escort guard of the panzer, ask for satchel and destroy the obstacle.

It's dilemma of combined arms : (symbolized by the myth of Alcyoneus)
When infantry enemy comes, bring your panzer.
When T 34 comes, bring your infantry (saper but not only).

It's look like battle between Alcyoneus and Hercules. Alcyoneus was invincible when he was on ground. Fight your enemy in the ground where he is weak ...look like Hercules fought Alcyoneus not on his own ground !

Use nature of the enemy against himself ! Several cases of fighting works in this way.

 

[stern]

Stern,
Where your panzer is, pioneer should not be !
Where enemy panzer is, pioneer should be !

eh? when did i say anything like that? i was talking about helping the tank, by being forward. not being by the tank.

an i never mention tank hunting because we are talking about being an aid to your tank.

 

[JD0x0]

I use engineer as more of a 'sapper'
Sneak around killing who I have to, to get to objectives, then blow them up. I'm usually solo, as it's the best way to keep hidden.

 

[ro2player]

There is a way saper can help friend tank : FAR AWAY !
There is a way infantry can help friend tank : close ! (infantry in front, panzer behind with HE and mg)

Few 2-3 soldiers of infantry should also stay in close contact with panzer and protect his back and flanks. ( 1 soldier for back, 1 for right flank and 1 for left flank )

It's the subject of this post, I think.

eh? when did i say anything like that? i was talking about helping the tank, by being forward. not being by the tank.

If panzer need help to destroy obstacles, so one soldier infantry of the escort guard of the panzer, ask for satchel and destroy the obstacle.

an i never mention tank hunting because we are talking about being an aid to your tank.

But we were talking about cooperation betwen infantry and tank. (Saper shouldn't be close to friend tank)

Many see problems in keeping infantry with the Tank, but there is a class perfect for the role and not utilized in the game as such. All those experience points for blowing obstacles make promotion pretty rapid in the class as well.

Your enemy will turn your advantage in his advantage : blowing your tank.
Cooperation of saper with panzer is too dangerous.

Saper must chase the enemy tank - it's their main task - and destroy obstacle. They need to focus on the enemy tank, and not to the friend tank.

Too much time I have see friend panzer killed by a satchel take from hand of friend saper by enemy infantry.

Sneak around killing who I have to, to get to objectives, then blow them up. I'm usually solo, as it's the best way to keep hidden.

Oldsoldier said : Smoke an enemy tank can help you.

Defenders should never use smoke, UNLESS needed to blind the 'tank'.

So JD0x0 working in little group can be effective in the tank hunting.
Squad leader + saper + infantry for coever you.

Either you prefer act alone being a saper with smoke ?

 

[stern]

But we were talking about cooperation betwen infantry and tank. (Saper shouldn't be close to friend tank)

thats what i ****ing said? why if we are sayin the same thing do you keep quoting me with what i basically said anyway?

 

[Cwivey]

thats what i ****ing said? why if we are sayin the same thing do you keep quoting me with what i basically said anyway?

Ach, best not to get him going.



Regular infantry should support the tank; the engineers should be along-side the Assault force, clearing the way forwards and blasting obstacles along the way IMO.

 

[Jank]

As noted here, I also think friendly engineer's primary focus is the destruction of the enemy armor, secondary focus is the destruction of obstacles (though this immediately usurps primary status when the friendly tank is impeded from supporting the team's infantry), and tertiary focus is the default infantryman's job.


Supporting the tank is important however. So I think a SL4 and his couple men should be tasked with the protection of the tank (secondary for them is support fire for other squads).


Of course, all this is assuming the friendly tank isn't being doof. Everyone has their job to do.

 

[oldsoldier173]

I guess it is perception on 'how to do it right'. The tank commander places himself in an over watch position to support the advancing or defending troops, usually out of 'running' range of the enemy. His 'tankodesantniki' (the engineers) protect the tank, as well as clear obstacles. If tanks are used correctly even if the engineer gets shot, no enemy can get close to even pick up the dropped AT gear, let alone use it. I specifically ask for engineers to be my 'tankodesantniki' and have yet to worry about enemy getting AT gear that close to me, and I can get the hedgehogs down faster and keep up with 'the advance', many times at bridges are the obstacles left up and the tank just sits there idling waiting, asking and hoping someone blows the hedgehogs.

 

[ro2player]

Regular infantry should support the tank; the engineers should be along-side the Assault force, clearing the way forwards and blasting obstacles along the way IMO.

Agree. Jank, Moe, Morticore and Stern say it. And they are right.

I want to add : saper should works with antitank rifle...
Antitank rifle can cover saper against tank (and infantry in long range)
Saper can cover in close range the antitank rifle. (and against enemy infantry too)

His 'tankodesantniki' (the engineers) protect the tank,

'Tankodesantniki' are more mounted infantry than saper.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=84872

"Tankodesantniki" - T34 riders

There are several ideas : (for soviet infantery only)

- Soviet soldier can use T 34 directly as a respawn point. (it's a new respawn idea). Now Soviet soldiers respawn near 1-2 m to a T 34.
- soviet soldier can ride on T 34.
- T 34 as a respawn pont AND soviet can ride on T 34.
- soviet commander has a new special order "tankodesantniki " : now soviet soldier will respawn on a T 34. (only 1 time, commander need wait again to do it again look like arty call or plane airrecon) [it's a commander's new special order idea]

Another idea : (for people who want no only soviet use this idea : for soviet AND AXIS infantery)
- We can also extend the idea to the Germans. (Panzer IV as a respawn point, or germans can ride on P IV, or mix of the two ideas, or German commander special order)

A last idea : (for tank player)

- And tanks of each group can respawn directly on goup tank leader as the same way infantery soldier can respawn directly on squad leader.

"Tankodesantniki" is an idea of soldier riding on tank.

"Tank riders" were infantry mounted on tanks. Maybe reason was Satchel was too dangerous in battle to carried on a tank.

Saper should work not with tank but with anti tank rifle.

As noted here, I also think friendly engineer's primary focus is the destruction of the enemy armor, secondary focus is the destruction of obstacles

Yep.
First task : it's to destroy enemy tank.

Bring saper close to enemy tank is an invitation to kill this unit.
with enemy tank, arty or antitank rifle...

His 'tankodesantniki' (the engineers) protect the tank, as well as clear obstacles. If tanks are used correctly even if the engineer gets shot, no enemy can get close to even pick up the dropped AT gear, let alone use it.

Oldsoldier,
HOW do you want to do destroy obstacle IF saper are intented to be close to panzer ?
Panzer must be behind line of infantry.

Destroy osbtacles - if you mean saper are intented to be close to panzer - mean it's bringing panzer in first line. Except if you have an infantry line in front. But, even with this line of infantry, danger that enemy return yor own satchel against your panzer is not avoided...
Tank is a support element. (and a tactic goal in same time)

Let protect Saper by antitank rifle. Not by tank.
Keep tank behind line of infantry and also behind group of saper. (but not close to saper group)

If tanks are used correctly even if the engineer gets shot, no enemy can get close to even pick up the dropped AT gear, let alone use it.

It's mean : infantry protect panzer. Because it's infantry who avoid enemy pick up satchel and AT grenades.
When you said "no enemy can get close to even pick up the dropped AT gear" - here you are talking about infantry especially.
Because a tank alone - without infantry support - can't avoid enemy pick up satchel and AT grenades.

If you have your squad of saper all deads near your panzer, so "good luck" with your panzer to check each point where enemy can pick up satchel and AT grenades... Impossible...

Make Tank DIFFICULT to be destroyed.
...and not easy.