Difficulty and balance

[Neuro75013]

Hello there,

A quick feedback on the difficulty balance (using Spring Beta update preview 2).



* More large Zeds in HoE please, since the introduction of Quarterpounds it feels like some Fleshpounds have been replaced with the weaker Quarterpounds.
* There should be times where the game decide to swarm the player with 10+ bloats at once from the same spawning point, or 10 Gorefiends. Would force a bit more kiting.

* Zerk is realy fun but also realy too powerful as many people already mentioned. There might be some good ideas to make it more enjoyable.
- The health regen could be slower.
- The running speed could be slower (maybe while carrying heavy weapons?).
- The Eviscerator does too much damage.
- Skill tree could be a bit more oriented towards tanking hard or doing massive damage or beeing very fast with light weapons. Skirmisher skill is too powerful.

* Medic darts should reload a bit slower, making missing a dart a bit more meaningful.

* Our lovely Gunslinger need to be made a bit more challenging, could have a slightly slower movement speed, especialy concidering we already slow the Zeds 30%. Should it have his passive perk weapon damage changed from 25% to 15%?

* Survivalist could do with an extra 20-30% ammo, other than that i find it an amasing perk.



I'd like to know TW opinion on reload cancel also.
Salutations!

 

[Buzzkillinton]

No...and no. run speed (of all classes) is already impacted by weight. the skill tree already accommodates tanking vs dmg. almost every single single skill tier has a dmg or survivability choice, with the major exception of the lvl 25 skill...nobody in their right mind uses anything but spartan, that one could definitely use a look for the other lvl 25 skill, and make it tank oriented would be fine. like instantly regen 50 HP and 50 armor on zed time and all attacks while in zed time do 500% damage. (since you arent moving real time, you will get 1-2 attacks at most)

evis only is super powerful when fully specd for it, which means you have very limited ammo and give up alot on faster attacks for lighter weapons.

absolutely no on medic. medic already does not have an oh sht heal.

dont care about GS or surv..

TW already said reload cancel is fine. it is a player skill aspect.

 

[LazerOfDensity]

No...and no. run speed (of all classes) is already impacted by weight. the skill tree already accommodates tanking vs dmg. almost every single single skill tier has a dmg or survivability choice, with the major exception of the lvl 25 skill...nobody in their right mind uses anything but spartan, that one could definitely use a look for the other lvl 25 skill, and make it tank oriented would be fine. like instantly regen 50 HP and 50 armor on zed time and all attacks while in zed time do 500% damage. (since you arent moving real time, you will get 1-2 attacks at most)

evis only is super powerful when fully specd for it, which means you have very limited ammo and give up alot on faster attacks for lighter weapons.

absolutely no on medic. medic already does not have an oh sht heal.

dont care about GS or surv..

TW already said reload cancel is fine. it is a player skill aspect.

Another viable zerker build is Dreadnought and Berserking rage, with the exponential scaling of effective health, the extra 75 health lets you take alot more damage. You also get something very close to the 50 health regen per sec wile giving the team a large buffer of space. Its also pretty common to get a full heal during zed time.


With the 75% damage reduction cap and the 0.3x block mitigation from bone crusher.
Effective health with Skirmisher: 1333
Effective health with Dreadnought: 2333
This is not including parries.

 

[oldmidget]

Every idea besides the first one is horrible. Especially the extreme nerfs.

 

[Neuro75013]

No...and no. run speed (of all classes) is already impacted by weight. the skill tree already accommodates tanking vs dmg. almost every single single skill tier has a dmg or survivability choice, with the major exception of the lvl 25 skill...nobody in their right mind uses anything but spartan, that one could definitely use a look for the other lvl 25 skill, and make it tank oriented would be fine. like instantly regen 50 HP and 50 armor on zed time and all attacks while in zed time do 500% damage. (since you arent moving real time, you will get 1-2 attacks at most)

evis only is super powerful when fully specd for it, which means you have very limited ammo and give up alot on faster attacks for lighter weapons.

absolutely no on medic. medic already does not have an oh sht heal.

dont care about GS or surv..

Ye i agree its almost just tiny tweaks that are not crucial, although i have share the same opinion, there could be more large Zeds on HoE.
As for survivalist, it need more ammo that's prety much it. Maybe increase weapons damage from 15% to 20-25%.

TW already said reload cancel is fine. it is a player skill aspect.

Thanks.

Every idea besides the first one is horrible. Especially the extreme nerfs.

The balance i presented are very slight in my opinion , going from 20% to 10-15% movement speed etc. Anyway what i think is priority is not balancing perks but rather adding more fun to the HoE games and fixing survivalist.

I'd also like to see KF-Icebreaker back!

 

[Dr. Lethal]

Why do people feel the zerk is OP? It's probably the most balanced perk that requires full situational awareness to avoid death. Nerfing him just so you can feel a challenge isn't something everyone wants. Also, the evis damage is comparable to the RPG and rail gun, yet no one bats an eye at them.

 

[oldmidget]

The balance i presented are very slight in my opinion , going from 20% to 10-15% movement speed etc. Anyway what i think is priority is not balancing perks but rather adding more fun to the HoE games and fixing survivalist.

I'd also like to see KF-Icebreaker back!

Im just saying, nerfs like that which actually are a big difference, isnt a good way whatsoever to do that.

 

[Buzzkillinton]

Why do people feel the zerk is OP? It's probably the most balanced perk that requires full situational awareness to avoid death. Nerfing him just so you can feel a challenge isn't something everyone wants. Also, the evis damage is comparable to the RPG and rail gun, yet no one bats an eye at them.

yeah, its an easy class to play OK, it is a harder class to play well. You need to have complete situational awareness (getting blocked from behind usually means death), and you need to know the in and outs of each zeds attacks, and when best to stand and fight, vs retreat. when played well, it is a super powerful class.

 

[Neuro75013]

It's hard to balance a melee perk in a ranged game anyway, zerk is picked by most average players indeed because it's easy to play.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

It's hard to balance a melee perk in a ranged game anyway, zerk is picked by most average players indeed because it's easy to play.

It's also easy to get killed if you slip up.

 

[®omano]

I'd like to know TW opinion on reload cancel also.

Not a bug, a feature... yeah, almost a direct quote from TWI.......

edit: it is obviously a bug because duallies are considered one pool of ammo instead of two separate one.. but that makes thing more complicated when it comes to a better solution so they keep it like that, half the reload animation, ammo pool is full, just cancel reload and enjoy full mags.

 

[Neuro75013]

Not a bug, a feature... yeah, almost a direct quote from TWI.......

edit: it is obviously a bug because duallies are considered one pool of ammo instead of two separate one.. but that makes thing more complicated when it comes to a better solution so they keep it like that, half the reload animation, ammo pool is full, just cancel reload and enjoy full mags.

Ofc that's unintended, just like parry spam exploits and other stuff like the missing weapons when you are spectating or stuff like that. I like reload cancel tho, altho there is a major problem with how relaoding is handled, for exemple with survivalist the reload speed boost during zed time isn't working properly most of the time, the reload boost operate at different speeds. Also if you started reloading just before the zed time kicked in you are good for a slow reload for the whole zed time duration.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

Ofc that's unintended, just like parry spam exploits and other stuff like the missing weapons when you are spectating or stuff like that. I like reload cancel tho, altho there is a major problem with how relaoding is handled, for exemple with survivalist the reload speed boost during zed time isn't working properly most of the time, the reload boost operate at different speeds. Also if you started reloading just before the zed time kicked in you are good for a slow reload for the whole zed time duration.

Parry spam isn't an exploit. It's all about proper timing and knowing when the parry effects are about to wear off, so you can parry once again to keep it going. Also, how is missing weapons a problem when you're spectating someone? Who wants to see a large gun blocking half your view in first person view?

 

[®omano]

That's not a bug that is intended for the 'missing weapon' in spectator. We asked for a proper spectator mode for years for RO2 and RS1 (where here it was important when spectating live server to see what people were doing), we never had it because it was requiring more work they didn't want to do. Also Dr. Lethal, "a large gun blocking half your view"? really? like when you actually play the game? What he meant I'm pretty sure was exactly what I was talking about for RO2/RS1 (but actually also RS2) these games do not have a proper first person spectating view where you see exactly the same as the player.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

That's not a bug that is intended for the 'missing weapon' in spectator. We asked for a proper spectator mode for years for RO2 and RS1 (where here it was important when spectating live server to see what people were doing), we never had it because it was requiring more work they didn't want to do. Also Dr. Lethal, "a large gun blocking half your view"? really? like when you actually play the game? What he meant I'm pretty sure was exactly what I was talking about for RO2/RS1 (but actually also RS2) these games do not have a proper first person spectating view where you see exactly the same as the player.

It's not an issue when you're the one whose playing. What importance would it serve to see what the person is shooting at, when you have the 3rd person world view that shows the weapon said player is using and it give a you a better perspective so you can see what's around the player? You can't warn someone that a husk is behind them when you're looking in the same direction they are.

 

[®omano]

You don't have to warn people, anyway there are multiple spectating cameras if you want to babysit people when spectating, this is not what is discussed here, you're talking about your preferences, and lucky you, you have what you need, multiple cameras. But when you select the first person view, in theory it is to see exactly what the player sees, hence the question about the lack of what the player sees in theory, I don't understand your reasoning this is just illogical.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

You don't have to warn people, anyway there are multiple spectating cameras if you want to babysit people when spectating, this is not what is discussed here, you're talking about your preferences, and lucky you, you have what you need, multiple cameras. But when you select the first person view, in theory it is to see exactly what the player sees, hence the question about the lack of what the player sees in theory, I don't understand your reasoning this is just illogical.

What do you mean "you don't need to warn people?" I've seen many games fail because no one types a damn thing to warn of a certain incoming zed, a group of zeds, or point out where ammo crates are. Just because you're dead doesn't mean you can't give input. As for first person view, sure, you're still seeing what the player sees, but you can't see what's BEHIND them if you're looking in first person view. You're restricting yourself to tunnel vision unless you switch to 3rd person. What is hard to understand about that?

 

[Neuro75013]

Parry spam isn't an exploit. It's all about proper timing and knowing when the parry effects are about to wear off, so you can parry once again to keep it going. Also, how is missing weapons a problem when you're spectating someone? Who wants to see a large gun blocking half your view in first person view?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1163320590

Here you have the exploit. The thing is i think TWI have a licence on UE3 engine but they don't know/can't mode the engine, that's why it is still featuring the same limitations and exploits.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1163320590

Here you have the exploit. The thing is i think TWI have a licence on UE3 engine but they don't know/can't mode the engine, that's why it is still featuring the same limitations and exploits.

My description was how good zerks time their parries to make full use of the benefits. Since there is an apparant exploit of this, it really shows how lazy people are at learning proper game controls.

 

[®omano]

What do you mean "you don't need to warn people?" I've seen many games fail because no one types a damn thing to warn of a certain incoming zed, a group of zeds, or point out where ammo crates are. Just because you're dead doesn't mean you can't give input. As for first person view, sure, you're still seeing what the player sees, but you can't see what's BEHIND them if you're looking in first person view. You're restricting yourself to tunnel vision unless you switch to 3rd person. What is hard to understand about that?

I mean this is not the topic when we talk about first person view, where all what the player does is not shown at all to the spectator, we don't care if we don't see behind the player at all, this is personal preference if you want to see behind the player you have two specific cameras to do that so go to these specific cameras to do that if you want, but you lack all what the player does in first person view, you don't see the player aiming, switching weapons and all. Still you're off topic and talk about your personal preference as the focus point, but that doesn't solve the question of the blank first person view missing all what you're supposed to see if you want to spectate in first person view, aka a proper first person view which doesn't exist in all TWI games (RO2/RS/KF2/RS2)

I don't personally babysit people when playing, they are good enough to not need to state the obvious (zed spawns and all). But this is off topic when speaking about what is missing in first person camera. First person view lacks the weapon, and all the things the player does in the game, this is a floating camera replacing the player's head.