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Camping vs. Constant movement

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Stryker

Stryker

Grizzled Veteran
Feb 25, 2006
147
29
New York, NY
#1
One of the things i heard that made me nervous was when TW said they wanted KF2 too be more about running around than about holding a spot. Now I know sometimes just staying in one spot can be boring, but to be honest, some of the MOST popular maps are the ones with these spots. Of-course every map should have its own way of playing. Like how Farm had it, there wasn't really many spots to camp, and running around was something fun. If every map tried to produce on-your-toes style gameplay of running around, it's not going to be fun, its going to be annoying and not help to produce teamwork, but too push for lone wolfs.

Sometimes, we just just want to sit at the end of a doom corridor, as a team, working as a team, to hold off huge numbers of hordes, and no, not just for stat padding. I hope there are maps were holding one spot is possible, and not all these spots are going to be removed by TW too make for a running around chaotic experience.

Thoughts, comments?
 
#3
i think you can still enjoy defending one place without it being an easy shooting gallery with just 1 or 2 main directions.

for example:
at the moment defending at the blocked bridge near the eifel tower on paris burning is a really fun defensive experience even though you have zeds coming from all 4 directions (mainly zeds from infront of you down the steps and from metro entrance, quite afew zeds from the blocked bridge and the blocked road, and some zeds from the direction towards the cafe which is your fall back area)

i think main thing is just balance so no matter what sort of defensive area, it isn't too easy. a small defensive area such as biotics lab spawn corridor could work but still be exciting, is just about little touches with map design and zed spawns and pathfinding.
 
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#4
I really liked defending a spot with my friends on KF1.

Finding the spots and holding down the ZEDs was fun. Finding that one spot that worked alright on hard didn't work on suicidal, etc.

That said, I don't mind if KF2 isn't camp friendly if the game itself is enjoyable, but I agree with the OP that this could be map related instead of game related.
 
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#5
There are many good spots to hold out in if you don't like fighting on the move, however when big guys come, be prepared to start fighting on the move if **** hits the fan.

Example places are:

Outpost:
The area with 2 parked snow-vans is really easily defended as long as you can keep The zeds from gaining too much ground. (They will advance heavily due to only 2 routes to the vans.)

Paris:
The Connecting Bridge inside the hotel, Zeds tend to come only from 2 doors and even with the small spawns inside the place it's really defencible as long as youre prepared for a unrelenting shooting gallery with little time for reloads.

The Bridge near Eiffel tower is easy to defend too even with 4 directions to come into it. You should post one guy on watch on the bridge so he can clear whatever is coming from there and then you have a pretty safe corner with a very open area in which to shoot incoming zeds.

Bio Labs:
This Map has no really good spots, but I've found that the scaffolding area works quite well, the M.E.A.T showcase room (near the big grinder) and the dissection room near the main office area. But this map is really about door control and kiting more than camping.
 
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#9
I don't know... I kind of miss camping a bit, but thanks to the run key being mobile is really exciting. Sometimes I get separated and have epic escapes around the map, bumping into zeds, almost being cornered, shooting only the essential zeds... and then finding a teammate (also lost) or the group.

I hope there can be both!
 
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#10
C_Gibby said:
Care to elaborate?

Every game I've been in, everyone resorts to kiting, or doing a back-to-back in an outdoor area. Welding has only served as a delaying tactic and not a funnelling tactic.
Click to expand...

In some spots welding makes zeds avoid said welded doors altogether and funnel into one path.

Welded doors are great when fighting (double) fleshpound since you can get everyone ready.

If you leave doors for the later waves you can easily defend a spot until you clear the FP and maybe a sc or two after which the wave is a cakewalk.
 
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#12
C_Gibby said:
I don't like it. The game is way too biased towards kiting where speed reigns supreme. Instead of two (potentially) balanced playstyles, we have only one. Welding is pointless.
Click to expand...
Welding has always been pointless IMO, most of the time. All games I've played (normal, mind you) everybody dances around in an open area which is basically like defending but with the added twist that forces you to move around.
 
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#13
Yeah, my biggest mistake right now is not kiting out of the area when **** has really gone wrong, like 2 FPs and a Scrake. Your whole team can survive that without starting to kite but...it's more by luck than skill. And if it happens at the start of the wave, GL trying to kite them as waves of guys are still pouring in. Like with a lot of things, if your team is all on the same page and know where to go when things go bad, you can make it work. But if half start running and the other half hold their ground, chances are the guys that ran will be the ones to survive because the ones that held bought them the space they need to start kiting.
 
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#14
C_Gibby said:
I don't like it. The game is way too biased towards kiting where speed reigns supreme. Instead of two (potentially) balanced playstyles, we have only one. Welding is pointless.
Click to expand...

I still don't understand how welding is pointless. It just lasts for a couple of waves instead of indefinitely.
moleculo said:
Welding has always been pointless IMO, most of the time. All games I've played (normal, mind you) everybody dances around in an open area which is basically like defending but with the added twist that forces you to move around.
Click to expand...

Also, I agree with this. Most of the time people didn't weld since there were plenty of limited choke point areas on most maps. However, using a welded door is sometimes more fun if it's shutting off a passage that would make it so there were too manu zeds at once or something. Bedlam's balcony area is like this. It seems like it works best when it's reducing it from like 3 chokepoints to 2 or something. Not like Wyre's underground base with the area with the fence and the door next to it facing a single corridor after the door is welded.
 
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#15
I kind of like the mix between kiting and camping KF2 is going with. Like you can camp if you want but once the doors are gone and sirens come in to blow out the lights you're going to have to move. You plan ahead, conserve doors, and move from spot to spot.

However, the maps do need better defensive positions. Paris is good with the hotel, spawn, and the bridge but biotics and outpost don't have any noteworthy spots from what I've seen.

EDIT: I take that back, found a very good spot on outpost today, the long hallway on the left past the trucks outside is amazing for defense. Also biotics has surgery and birthday room.
 
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#16
TideX said:
I kind of like the mix between kiting and camping KF2 is going with. Like you can camp if you want but once the doors are gone and sirens come in to blow out the lights you're going to have to move. You plan ahead, conserve doors, and move from spot to spot.

However, the maps do need better defensive positions. Paris is good with the hotel, spawn, and the bridge but biotics and outpost don't have any noteworthy spots from what I've seen.
Click to expand...

I found that the big room at biotics is somewhat easy to defend with 6 players on normal, i just had a game where we camped there until the boss wave.

Just weld the door below the surgery room and they funnel through the other path, keep one guy on top of the stairs on the small room as most of the zeds who come there are trash. The good thing about this spot is because even if they get inside the room you have plenty of room to maneuver around.
 
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#17
I find that camping works fairly well in several areas on all the maps.

However things can get dicey very quickly, and when that happens you have to know when your position is overrun, and get the hell out of dodge.

The reason camping doesn't seem as viable anymore is because Zeds don't funnel as easily as they used to. Crawlers and Stalkers have many areas they can drop from and Cysts can pop out of the manholes too.

Most "campable" areasa have other passage-ways too.

For example. I like to camp the metro in Burning Paris. You can weld up a few of the doors and funnel the rest through the other doors, easing the load. However, some zeds can appear from down the subway tunnels, including scrakes.
 
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#18
Come wave 5-7 after the latest update it mostly devolves into frenzied kiting because of fleshpounds/scrakes. I first and foremost like camping myself, but I agree it needs to be harder than the first game. Right now camping pretty much requires all 6 players on their toes. You can't really carry in the later waves, because you can't solo kill fleshpounds/scrakes quickly in any way what so ever.

As for good camping spots, Outpost has the most clear cut 2-way defense on any map right now (if you go down the famed outside slope everyone else likes to camp for no apparent reason).

Hotel on Paris, top floor, adjoining room (the balcony section above the garden basically). Here you can weld one door in the back, and they will all funnel into a 1-way defense.

Biotics is a bit more tricky, there's some half decent 2-way defense spots but it gets dark fast. Gotta say I like how illumination comes into play for camping. :)
 
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