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Bandages

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#21
Just throwing this out there but if you remove bandaging you know that you making autos even more deadly, right? As the whole bandaging system is to make random fire less effective and removing it would be a godsend for MG and SMGs. Longer bandage time and making sure that rifles are more effective when they hit the torso would be a better fix...
 
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#25
MarioBava said:
But so many people are characterizing the bandaging mechanic as a "heal". I always thought it was not a heal, but can only stop you from dying from a bleedout. And bleedouts happen from wounds that are not in themselves fatal (ie not vital organs). But as I understood it, the points you lost are not regained
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Yeah, that's correct. There's no way to recover lost HP; once hurt, you'll always be more vulnerable to future hits. Bandaging just stops the additional HP loss over time due to a bleeding wound.
 
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#28
Ender said:
Bandaging doesn't heal you... it makes you invincible!

Red Orchestra 2: HOS - YouTube
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I would say this default with the engine, since damage is being done that would fatally end the player's "life" "bandaging" makes that part invulnerable no longer susceptible to damage completely, no matter the source. Probably just something default to UE3 that has to do with damage and invulnerability when adapting to situations where one is not to "die."
 
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#29
defektive said:
There are several threads about the current bandage system, and about how a more desirable RO1-like damage model was dropped just prior to release in favour of the current comedy insta-heal offering. It’s clear that the Bandage mechanic is here to stay (alas – or at least until the SDK mods remove it!) but perhaps it could still be tweaked in a simple and easily-to-implement fashion to add an ounce of believability to the current silliness that still holds true to the reasons why TWI chose to go with quick-Bandages.

Keeping it simple, here’s my humble offering that attempts to bridge the gap between a hit location model and the quick-heal model:-
- Bleed-out time based on location hit: Arm – 60 secs; Leg – 45 secs; Trunk – 30 secs. [Hit location model is already in the game.]
- Whilst Bleeding Out: spent Stamina does not regenerate; weapon Sway steadily increases. [Conditional tweaking of variables already in the game.]
- Bandaging one’s self takes 10 seconds. [Tweaking of a constant already in the game.]

Adding in a mechanic to be bandaged more quickly by someone else would be nice but I suspect such a thing wouldn’t be a simple tweak.
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10 Seconds to bandage seems absurdly long to me. The current length is too short, I don't disagree, but 10 seconds is quite a long time on the current maps and engagement ranges. My possible solution would be: '1st Bandage is X seconds. 2nd bandage, if applied within a certain time frame (1-3 minutes) takes Y seconds more time.' After that 1-3 minutes, it would take the same amount of time as the first would to apply. Or the second bandage could always take more time to apply.
 
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#30
Krobar said:
I would say this default with the engine, since damage is being done that would fatally end the player's "life" "bandaging" makes that part invulnerable no longer susceptible to damage completely, no matter the source. Probably just something default to UE3 that has to do with damage and invulnerability when adapting to situations where one is not to "die."
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Even if this is true, it doesn't excuse the completely retarded situation of being able to shoot a guy 1 billion times in any body part without them bleeding to death or dying. It's a massive design flaw, plain and simple.
 
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#31
During the beta everyone was saying "Make it so it takes 10 seconds and it will be so real!"

I'm glad to see everyone has finally come to the realization that the system, as a whole, sucks and is irreparable without a major overhaul.

I'm a HUGE opponent of 'longer bandaging'. Hitting control and waiting is not immersive. It is not hardcore. It is not more realistic. It will end up being a frustrating waste of time. Please return the Ostfront system and alleviate our control key of this superfluous and frustrating "feature"
 
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#32
The invulnerable leg video is hilarious, thanks for posting that!

Bandaging system right now is awful and un-fun, especially in conjunction with the bug that allows you to take a rifle bullet to the gut or chest and just... get better.

The RO1 system was much more fun (except for losing your gun and all your ammo, that used to annoy me). Failing a return to that system, longer bandaging and actual penalties for getting shot are a must.
 
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#33
Golf33 said:
The RO1 system was much more fun (except for losing your gun and all your ammo, that used to annoy me). Failing a return to that system, longer bandaging and actual penalties for getting shot are a must.
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Excatly, and that's the motivation behind the OP: Ideally I'd much prefer no bandaging at all, but if it has to stay it must be tweaked into a condition that measures up to it becoming the lesser of the available evils.
 
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#35
I like the suggestions made so far. More important than the actual variables involved, a new bandaging system should add another layer to gameplay. For example, if bleedout and bandaging times were increased you would have to decide on the fly, "Do I take the time to make one last shot at the enemy, or do I run to cover and bandage?" You would also have to pick the time and location to bandage much more carefully.

I don't know if 10 seconds is the right amount of time, but whatever amount of time that makes bandaging more of a gamble if you aren't in a completely safe location.
 
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#36
I'm all for longer bleed out and bandaging times. And in addition to that I'd like to see more adverse effects to getting hit. Something simple like getting shot in the legs makes you slower and getting shot in the arms increases sway would be enough.

For the sake of gameplay these effects could (optionally) fade away over time, counting from when the bandage was applied.
 
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#37
defektive said:
Gotta love it when the knock-out punch is landed, and ^that was it. :)

This probably backs up my feeling that arms do indeed act as bullet shields when you're hosing someone down from their side.
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I also think you are probably right about that; you should get somebody to test it with you.

But "Knock-out punch"? I hadn't known about how bandaging makes a hit location permanently invulnerable, but seriously. It must have to do with the fact that however they chose to code the negation of the rest of the bleeding damage (probably by negating any type of damage taken to that hitbox) is not switched back off when the bleed finishes. Of course, there are battlefield situations where this glitch will have impact, particularly where a player is partly behind cover and the only body part exposed happens to be a previously bandaged one. But otherwise, you will be aiming for vital areas, not shooting the foot over and over and over.

This looks like an issue that can and needs to be fixed without changing any aspect of the bandaging mechanic other than how invulnerability to damage for negating the bleed is handled.

It's also a point that is totally separate from the issue of how long it should take to bandage or of lasting impairment from wounds.
 
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#38
Well I'll give you 10 out of 10 for trying to defend the indefensible, at least. The bandaging mechanic in RO2 is rubbish from top to bottom and it needs sorting out if not removing entirely (with the former being more likely than the latter). Continue to split hairs if you wish to but as far as I'm concerned this is all symptomatic of a botched mechanic.
 
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#39
defektive said:
Well I'll give you 10 out of 10 for trying to defend the indefensible, at least. The bandaging mechanic in RO2 is rubbish from top to bottom and it needs sorting out if not removing entirely (with the former being more likely than the latter). Continue to split hairs if you wish to but as far as I'm concerned this is all symptomatic of a botched mechanic.
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If it were definitively true that hitbox invulnerability resulting from bandage use were an unavoidable aspect of the bandaging/bleeding system instead of just an oversight or a glitch, then I could agree with you. Too much dirty bathwater, not enough baby.

But on the other if it is fixable, it's hardly a "knock-out punch" to the system nor to my "defense" of it. Hardly splitting hairs, I'm sorry.

I'm just saying that if you remove bandaging entirely you are left with a bleedout mechanic that, while offering eventual certain death upon wounding (and therefore 1 shot 1 kill well most of the time), does not offer an aspect that does occur with bandaging which I see as an overall positive from "both sides of the bandage": the risk/reward of choosing to do something about the fact that you are bleeding rather than just play as usual until you die off. As I said before, I don't know how many guys I've shot while they are trying to bandage themselves or how many times you see a guy who obviously gets wounded and then immediately goes for cover for a safe place to bandage. So, with bandaging, in order to continue playing as if nothing happened, the player has to make a decision as to whether he would rather survive or just let himself die. If he wants to survive, the player must take the risk of taking a course of action other than fighting, potentially leaving himself vulnerable or giving his enemy a moment unopposed, and is rewarded with survival at least until he is shot again --less the already lost hit points, of course.

Fix the hitbox invulnerability issue, maybe make bandaging take more time, and it's all baby, no bathwater.
 
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