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Authentic Ballistics & Sniping

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#61
VariousNames said:
The Kar98k used a 7.92x57mm cartridge, not a 8x68mm cartridge...
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And so? That doesn't change the Ballistic Coefficient of the projectile now does it ;)

One of the tables shows BC results obtained firing the sS projectile with the 8x68S cartridge, which in effect is a 8x57mm on steriods. They shoot the exact same projectiles though.

Commercial post war:
8x57mm IS with S&B sS (12.7 g) = 790 m/s
8x68mm S with S&B sS (12.7 g) = 932 m/s
7.92mm S&B sS Average Ballistic Coefficient = .557 (G1)

Post war surplus:
8x57mm IS with FN sS (12.75 g) = 740 m/s
7.92mm FN sS Average Ballistic Coefficient = .584 (G1)

WW2 surplus:
8x57mm IS sS Patronen (12.8 g) = 760 m/s
7.92mm sS Patronen Average Ballistic Coefficient = .595 (G1)
 
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#62
Unus Offa said:
And so? That doesn't change the Ballistic Coefficient of the projectile now does it ;)

One of the tables shows BC results obtained firing the sS projectile with the 8x68S cartridge, which in effect is a 8x57mm on steriods. They shoot the exact same projectiles though.

Commercial post war:
8x57mm IS with S&B sS (12.7 g) = 790 m/s
8x68mm S with S&B sS (12.7 g) = 932 m/s
7.92mm S&B sS Average Ballistic Coefficient = .557 (G1)

Post war surplus:
8x57mm IS with FN sS (12.75 g) = 740 m/s
7.92mm FN sS Average Ballistic Coefficient = .584 (G1)

WW2 surplus:
8x57mm IS sS Patronen (12.8 g) = 760 m/s
7.92mm sS Patronen Average Ballistic Coefficient = .595 (G1)
Click to expand...

I see.

Obviously it affects ballistics though due to higher powder charge :X

I noticed that in your statistics mentioned in this post, World War 2 surplus has a higher ballistic coefficient than post-war, why is that?
 
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#63
The German WW2 surplus ammunition is simply a tiny bit heavier and with a slightly more streamlined form factor, that's the reason for the higher BC. The closest to it I have found is the FN surplus.

PRVI however is making a commercial 12.8 g (198 gr) FMJBT load, but I have no information in regards to its form factor or ballistic coefficient. I have however heard that mauser shooters are having great results with this round.
 
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#65
I live in Europe so I really don't know how high the availability of these ammunition types are in the states. BUT, there is a company called Mitchell's Mausers which is manufacturing and selling 198 gr FMJBT ammunition in the states. Wether the bullet is based on the original sS Patrone I don't know, but you could email them about it. Maybe they can even provide BC figures for their bullets.

Here's a link:
[URL]http://www.mauser.net/[/URL]

Also if you're interested in the price & availability of the European S&B, FN, PRVI etc etc.. ammunition, then I strongly suggest contacting them via email. I am confident they can provide all the information you need to know.

Here are some links to their sites:
1. [URL]http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/[/URL]
2. [URL]http://www.fnherstal.com/[/URL]
3. [URL]http://www.prvipartizan.com/

As for WW2 surplus ammunition, check on Ebay, MidwayUSA etc etc..[/URL]
 
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#67
Unus Offa said:
I live in Europe so I really don't know how high the availability of these ammunition types are in the states. BUT, there is a company called Mitchell's Mausers which is manufacturing and selling 198 gr FMJBT ammunition in the states. Wether the bullet is based on the original sS Patrone I don't know, but you could email them about it. Maybe they can even provide BC figures for their bullets.

Here's a link:

Also if you're interested in the price & availability of the European S&B, FN, PRVI etc etc.. ammunition, then I strongly suggest contacting them via email. I am confident they can provide all the information you need to know.

As for WW2 surplus ammunition, check on Ebay, MidwayUSA etc etc..[/URL]
Click to expand...

Thank you very much, I appreciate it.
 
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#72
Unus Offa said:
So if any animation is to be made (which I think is unnecessary) then it would be the same for both.
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How on earth animations would be unnecessary? :confused:

Think about it, if everything else is done fine to the last detail and polished (tanks, weapon loading animations, checking the magazine animations etc. etc.), the lack of sight adjusting animations would be very serious immersion braker indeed.
 
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#73
Unus Offa said:
Never seen any of their stuff first hand, I've only heard about them from American shooters.
...
As for "super-rare-evil-SS-Mauser-rifles", what is exactly was this refering to? Mausers with the SS skull on them? Cause they do infact exist, but so does plenty of fakes of them ofcourse;)
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Mitchell's Mausers, from what I've heard, basically take Russian captures (or Yugo M48's), grind off the original serial numbers, restamp them so that they are "matching", strip off the original finish, slap them back together, and then sell them as "collector's grade" with a hefty markup. This includes, to my knowledge, stamping the Death's Head and other SS markings onto generic rifles and selling them for absurd sums.

Even now, I just checked thier site, and they're attempting to sell Mosin-Nagant "sniper rifles" for $1500! You can get a great condition mosin for 10% of that cost, and actual sniper-grade mosins from WWII normally sell in the $500 range from what I've seen.

Giant scam. They may make good ammo, but given thier track record, who knows. Either way I wouldn't support the company
 
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#75
Agenda_Suicide said:
@VariousNames

Winchester makes commercial ammo for the K98 (8mm Mauser) at about 30 dollars for 20 rounds.

I found a K98 ammo pouch at an antique store with Turkish 7.92x57 ammo dated 1944 and stripper clips. Ammo shoots nicely.
Click to expand...

Incidentally, I found out about Winchester's 8mm ammunition through their website, which is why I asked. I was looking for an alternative source. I can't find an 8mm listing on their ammunition page but they have one loading in their ballistics calculator

http://ballisticscalculator.winchester.com/

The ballistics coefficient of that particular round is....0.205 :(
Just over a third the ballistics coefficient of the rounds the OP is talking about. Now, I don't suppose that to be a comprehensive list of their ammunition, but the performance from the single loading I could find on their website is...well, evidently more suitable for hunting than target shooting or plinking, shall we say (it is a soft point).
 
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#76
Unus Offa said:
View through the 4x Ajack scope on one of my friends Mausers (Optical quality is just fantastic, looks more like it would on a modern scope as opposed to one from WW2, amazing):
4xajack.jpg
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That really is super! I wish I could get an original k98 sniper from WWII but too much money for me( maybe someday. +1 on mitchells mausers - their a known fraud and rip people off bad,a friend of mine got one of their so called original M91/30 PU sniper rifles and its a standard 91/30 with a fake scope setup,their worth no more than $400,Rguns.net is the only place selling originals. I still wish for the Soviet sniper rifles in RO2 they would use the m91/30 PEM which was the dominant Soviet sniper rifle there,I still think the few PU's that were made in 1942 were never shipped to Stalingrad,no photo evidence of it,and if they were shipped to Stalingrad the famous snipers like Zaitsev and Chekhov would have had one,but no their pictured with the PEM throughout the battle. I have maybe 30 or so photo's of Soviet snipers in Stalingrad and all have the m91/30 PE/PEM or SVT-40,I can post them if you guys would like to see them. I also just bought a PEM rifle and must say its quite superior to the PU in optics,much like the 4X Zeiss.
 

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#78
VariousNames said:
Incidentally, I found out about Winchester's 8mm ammunition through their website, which is why I asked. I was looking for an alternative source. I can't find an 8mm listing on their ammunition page but they have one loading in their ballistics calculator

[URL]http://ballisticscalculator.winchester.com/[/URL]

The ballistics coefficient of that particular round is....0.205 :(
Just over a third the ballistics coefficient of the rounds the OP is talking about. Now, I don't suppose that to be a comprehensive list of their ammunition, but the performance from the single loading I could find on their website is...well, evidently more suitable for hunting than target shooting or plinking, shall we say (it is a soft point).
Click to expand...

Never buy US made 8x57mm ammunition if you've got a M98 rifle, it is seriously underloaded. Apparently they're still afraid some people are stupid enough to use it in a M88 rifle.

For this reason Winchester & Remington sadly only offer underloaded 8mm ammuntion. If you want good 8mm ammunition I suggest you contact S&B or PRVI Partizan. I asked around for you and was told that PRVI's 198 gr load is VERY accurate on the range and holds it velocity very well, so its' BC is probably in the .550 (G1) range. I'd go for that if I were you, esp. since it seems to be reasonably priced as-well.

BUT, if you're into handloading then I suggest you buy a batch of 200 gr Match King bullet from Sierra, and then just use Winchester or Remington brass. The .323 cal 200 gr Sierra MK bullet (HPBT) has a BC of .520, and notoriously accurate.

As for Mitchell's Mausers, if their reputation is really as tarnished as some suggest then I'd probably stay clear of it just to be safe. I merely mentioned them because they're a US based company so I thought you could save some money that way. Better to handload yourself with Sierra bullets then, or contact the European ammunition manufacturers S&B or PRVI.
 
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#80
Im glad some others would like to see the PE/PEM rifles used,no game yet has ever used the big scopes M91/30s.
Here's some photo's of Soviet snipers in Stalingrad - you can see how widespread the PEM/PE rifles were,im yet to find any photo's of the m91/30 PU being used there - I even went through RGAKFD archives of Stalingrad photos and just found photos of the PE/PEM in service. If someone can prove me wrong please do so because id love the see the PU in service at Stalingrad. Plus I must add that these 1st PU rifles were only issued to the best snipers for test trial in combat as well because they were the "newest" design and surely they wanted their best snipers pictured with them. The Curator of the Stalingrad war museum even said these new PU rifles were only given to the best snipers and that Vassili Zaitsev received his in March 1943,if these PU rifles were in Stalingrad why didnt the famous Zaitsev get one then?......

Keep checking back on this photo album,I will be adding more Stalingrad sniper photos to it over the next couple days

http://s371.photobucket.com/albums/oo158/SovietCommunist/Stalingrad%20snipers/

Take care guys
 
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