Anti cheat. What servers will you play on.

[H.Beale]

Punkbuster is the worst thing that has happened to RO.

Here are 3 reasons not to use Punkbuster.

#1: Incredibly invasive

Punkbuster is an invasive program even by its own admission:

In PunkBuster's EULA, PunkBuster notes they may be considered invasive, and that they reserve the right to inspect someone's entire harddrive and all of their files: "Licensee understands and agrees that the information that may be inspected and reported by PunkBuster software includes, but is not limited to, Licensee's Internet Protocol Address, devices and any files residing on the hard-drive and in the memory of the computer on which PunkBuster software is installed." "Further, Licensee consents to allow PunkBuster software to transfer actual screenshots taken of Licensee's computer during the operation of PunkBuster software for possible publication." "Licensee agrees that any harm or lack of privacy resulting from the installation and use of PunkBuster software is not as valuable to Licensee as the potential ability to play interactive online games with the benefits afforded by using PunkBuster software."

Source: Wikipedia

Sorry if I disagree with Punkbuster about the "benefits" they provide.



#2: False positives/Global bans/hardware bans


Here is one user's experience with false positives:

http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/452720-punkbuster-sucks/http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/452720-punkbuster-sucks/

I even gave EvenBalance my IP address (since it's static) and asked them to compare it against whomever did this so-called 'cheating' ... but they responded 'we don't lift GUID bans. If you want to play on PB enabled servers, please purchase another copy of the game and avoid giving out your CD-Key to anyone.' Seriously, wtf is THAT?

Quote from PBB employee SuperTaz:

Punkbuster issues Hardware Bans for certain violations, although this is more rare. If you are hardware banned, then you would need a new modem, IP address, new PC and new game..

Just HOW is a program that can do that a good idea?

I don't care if it is 100% full proof on cheaters. I do not want a something that even a possibility of doing something like this associated with a game I purchase.

I have to re-purchase game I legitimately bought just because it decides I may be an evil horrible cheater? No thank you.


#3: It doesn't even keep out cheaters!

Quote from a fellow forum member:

I experienced PB with Americas Army a few years ago and it was nothing but a right royal pain in the behind, and the servers were overflowing with blatant cheats.

I would rather just stick with VAC too.

This is why we need to see official VAC-only servers so that users have a real choice.

I'm going to bet on beta release, all servers will be running PB and so we will be forced de-facto to use this program.

Not much of a choice.

Please have official VAC-only servers so players can have an actual choice on this matter.

 

[knigtstemplar]

@knigtstemplar

After a while you can begin to tell between good players, and cheating. Although some cheaters do a lot to try hide it, but a service like PB's Screenshots, which take raw shots from the players screens, can help check as well. Usually when an admin thinks someone is using a cheat they'll watch and monitor before taking action to check, they don't usually blindly ban or kick unless it's plainly obvious they're using a cheat.

I hear you on server admins using PB features for actually finding people cheating, but I have found many server admins to be ban happy.

Playing competitively for many years, I and many teammates have been banned on many occasions for doing well. Most admins don't realize that just because someone is doing well on their server doesn't mean they aren't playing fair. The skill level of the players in the server make the biggest difference in game play.

I hope many find PB to be trouble free and that it can help, but not solve, them find people not playing straight.

 

[REZ]

Vac.

 

[kllr101]

I hear you on server admins using PB features for actually finding people cheating, but I have found many server admins to be ban happy.

Playing competitively for many years, I and many teammates have been banned on many occasions for doing well. Most admins don't realize that just because someone is doing well on their server doesn't mean they aren't playing fair. The skill level of the players in the server make the biggest difference in game play.

I hope many find PB to be trouble free and that it can help, but not solve, them find people not playing straight.

Yeah, But like I said, not even admins are the perfect solution.

I've met admins that are very good with controlling situations and cheaters, but I've also seen my fair share of ones that aren't, and are happy to just hit the ban/kick button on people who don't follow their rules exactly or who are more skilled than themselves. Sadly.

It's a constant battle. But the more options we have the better, having PB and VAC for use can only be better than only having one to use, even if it is more physiological to the cheaters that "hey, this game uses 2x the defence to stop you!" than actual benefits from the systems themselves.

In the end though, Nothing will stop the cheaters and there's loopholes and problems with all of the current systems.

 

[teemu92]

Punkbuster was fine on bad company 2, no kicks for having fraps or steam overlay, but i will find a good server with active admins and add to favs

 

[HellBilly]

i got myself a new sig.

if anyone else wants to use it aswell
feel free

 

[blkmgc]

i got myself a new sig.

if anyone else wants to use it aswell
feel free

It reminds me of 4 nights ago in CODWAW when an aimbotter came in and raped the server until he got tired of it an left after most of the players either went spectator or left. And punkbuster did nothing but kick a number of folks for "unaproved program or driver". Pretty laughable, we got a kick out of it.

 

[u-s-e-r]

And that reminds me about the countless of times I have played VAC games with cheaters.

 

[HellBilly]

It reminds me of 4 nights ago in CODWAW when an aimbotter came in and raped the server until he got tired of it an left after most of the players either went spectator or left. And punkbuster did nothing but kick a number of folks for "unaproved program or driver". Pretty laughable, we got a kick out of it.

PB at default setting sucks
thats why its important to get it streaming to PBbans

 

[Graspa]

but i will find a good server with active admins and add to favs

this.

 

[SnowyOak]

I've heard alot of horror stories about PB, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt and try it out for a while. If it becomes a problem, we'll probably only end up seeing VAC servers anyways so I'll be playing on those. If it really does, in fact, provide better hack protection while not ruining the legit players' experience then I'm happy to play with it on.

 

[Wilbo]

VAC probably, because Punkbuster sometimes kicks me. Though I'll see, if both work it doesn't matter.

 

[ellnic]

VAC. Because Punkbuster is fail.

Agreed, very much agree

 

[Choice]

Punkbuster... especially when used with PBB - is a damn good system.... and if it works seamlessly with Vac... all the better

Sure it has had a hiccup with updating and kicking for nonsense over the years- although I myself have only dealt with that a minor few times in many thousands of game rounds..

There is zero reason to hate PB.

It works-

All Cheaters get caught one way or another.

---

@ H.Beale

#1-

That is invasive to you?... That is basically you allowing the program to scan your files in game folder, and take PB Screen Shots when you are running PB... It does not watch you when you are not playing the game.

#2-

False Positives... That is a rare event.. and they do not lead to Bans... just MDS kicks at the worst- You do not get a GUID ban for some false positive... That guy is either Full of ****... or overflowing with it...

As someone who has helped run a competitive gaming clan or two... I cannot even begin to tell you of the BS excuses people have when they get caught cheating...

The EGO is a hideous thing most times...

I like the Hardware ban feature... perhaps you have never been on the opposite end of a competitive game where the players on the other team are cheating and you get smashed... or what if a member of your own team cheats and you win...??

Nah.. That is not a feeling I recommend to anyone with gaming honor and integrity - Hardware ban the pricks.

Let them literally have to cash that check their egos wrote when they decided to dishonor themselves and possibly taint the reputation of others.

If you do not cheat... you will not be GUID banned- Period. Start fawking around with glowing skins, wall hack exe's, and aim bots... You will pay for being a slithering parasite.

I have had PB GUID's for over a decade.... never had to buy another game or piece of hardware because of it- and never will.

#3- Please ... AA and PB back in the day is not a valid example of anything.

PB often has that feature... It will identify a hack, and wait.... then one day-- all those "ELITE PWNERERS" are gone... and you say.. hey I kinda wanted to kick that guys *** ... where is he at??... So you ask, and you are told... oh they all got banned last night in one swoop.

All cheaters get caught...

PB is a fine program.

 

[Jason_Argo]

Hi H.Beale, I'd just like to mention some important points about your post, hopefully I can better inform you of the true nature of PunkBuster.

#1: Incredibly invasive
Punkbuster is an invasive program even by its own admission

I'm not sure why you think this is a bad thing? The more invasive an anti-cheat is the more chance it has of catching the players that want to cheat against you. Would you use an anti-virus that didn't scan all of your computer allowing malware to damage your rig? PunkBuster only scans your active memory when a PB enable game is running, that was confirmed by an EvenBalance employee on this forum. And if setup by the Admin of a game server PB will also scan your game folder and sub-folders only, in that feature no information is sent from your computer to a third party unless a detection is found and then only the name of the cheat file and an MD5 hash is used to identify the file. PunkBuster is hundreds of times less invasive then even the most useless anti-virus scanner on the market and yet most people are happy to use anti-virus software. VAC also scans your active memory when a VAC enabled game is running.

Here is one user's experience with false positives:
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/45...kbuster-sucks/[url]http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/45...kbuster-sucks/[/URL]

This is not a false positive, EvenBalance Globally Bans GUIDs that have been produced by CD Key Generators. Most if not all hacks sites supply their users with Generated CD keys to use with their hacks. To counter this EvenBalance ban all confirmed generated keys. Because of the inept system Electronic Arts and Activision use, CD Key generators will cause these types of problems, it is Electronic Arts and Activision's fault no one elses.

This cannot happen with RO2 as it must be run on Steam, if you were to buy RO2 retail you will have to enter the CD key into your Steam account to run the game, you and no one else will be able to use the CD key again on any other Steam account or without Steam.

This is not EvenBalance's (PunkBuster's) fault, in this case, this is Electronic Arts fault, as well Activision have done nothing to fix this issue.

Just HOW is a program that can do that a good idea?

Hardware bans are only issued in rare cases where some one severely compromises the PB software, in those cases a mountain of proof would exist so there would be zero risk of a false positive.

#3: It doesn't even keep out cheaters!
This is why we need to see official VAC-only servers so that users have a real choice.

You don't want to use PB cause it doesn't catch all cheaters but you do want to use VAC that is less effective at catching cheaters, that doesn't make any sense at all.

I'm going to bet on beta release, all servers will be running PB and so we will be forced de-facto to use this program.

No it will be the other way around, if players and Admins have a lot of issues with PB they will just simply run VAC. But if they have a lot of issues with cheaters (unlikely with this game) they will use PB, hopefully along side VAC if that is possible.

 

[Battle-B]

From my experience in the past. PB is greate ant-cheat software, but as anyother like it it also can be bypassed, so it is not perfect.
With the PB you are able to take PB screnshots and later download them from your server to check any sucpicious bits on the players screen (wall hacks ect).

Yes you may meet some hackers in PB servers but I personaly have met only with few with in all the time in my gaming time.

My experience with VAC hase been small, but with that one I have had lot of problems, i.e I have never seen it capture cheaters (this experience have been mostly on the late COD:BO), as and admin had to ban them myself always manually. Also if reported a player to VAC even with a proving demo, there was no results getting that player a ban.

Never seen anyone getting the hardware ban from PB, but it sounds good, "Cheat and get caught, ban your hardware and never play on PB server on any games with that PC", it is simple message, "don't even try to"

 

[Tovarish_Vassili]

Everything, but NOT PunkBuster

 

[KompanyCommands]

I dont think i care as long as it has players in.

Even servers without any cheat protections -_-

 

[Rich-UK]

none. since everyone will be cheating team balance on all servers.

 

[WatchMaker]

Punkbuster is ineffective and absurd. If it worked, I'd consider surrendering my privacy on my home desktop, but it has sucked for nearly a decade now, so I think I will stick to VAC only.

I'm glad TWI have made it an option, because honestly, Punkbuster would have prevented me from enjoying this game.