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A Few Art Suggestions

Amerikaner

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2005
1,724
508
Since RO went retail and ive payed for it, Ive subconciously been way more critical of graphics. Heres what should be changed:

1. Mauser Kar98k Sight hood- Theres been a ton of requests to get this removed. Its unrealistic. That right there should be good enough cause. In additon to that the majority of people Ive talked to think it looks bad and gets in the way of aiming. Also, theres a clipping problem during the bayonet attachment. The animation plays as if the sight hood werent even there. The avatar slides his fingers right through it instead of around. Please, please, please, get rid of this.

2. German Player Models: There are times when they look excellent. The equipment on the back is amazing, the upper body looks excellent. However, theres some things that dont live up to the great parts:

a) German Legs- something about the bottom half that irks me. Maybe its the Napoleon Dynamite style boots. Theyre too big maybe. Also around the thigh area the textures look less sharp. The legs as a whole might even be too small. Im sorry I cant pinpoint it but the Russians just look leagues ahead of the Germans.

b) German Faces- Some faces are incredible. They outshine any other game out there. You can see the scratches, dirt, everything. Wonderful. However, theres an inconsistency. There are other German player models that have no where near the detail of those few great ones. Theres almost no texture on their face. No grit at all. Ill post screens soon.

c) German Face Nationality- Why is it that there are no blonde haired Germans? Of course not all Germans looked like the "perfect race" but it doesnt look like any do in Ostfront. They look more Italian than Aryan on the whole. Russian faces are absolutely awe-inspiring and they actually look straight from Russia.

d) German Uniforms- While you can tell the detail from up close, far away it looks like a low quality texture. It seems theres too many shades of green around the model. Russians have that nice solid look that the Germans dont. Also, please add some variety. The Germans have the same model/texture on every map, no matter what campaign or battle.

3.First Person Arm/Hand Model: It doesnt have anywhere near as quality that eminates from the weapon models. Its too rigid and doesnt look like soft cloth. It looks too much like concrete, especially for the German side. The first person hand looks awesome during animations but when its static and holding the gun it looks alot like the original Battlefield hand. Not smooth enough. Ill post screens of comparison soon.

4. "World War II PDA" Map- Cmon, soldiers didnt carry around little electronic pda's to show them where arty would drop and the like. Quite frankly, this is absurd. Just have a simple piece of paper with a crude drawing or aerial recon photo as it would have been in the war. Retain the arrow to help new guys acclimate but thats as easy as it should get.

5. Mauser Kar98k Safety- Im sure you know this by now but its on the wrong side.

6. Karma- Incredible what you guys have done. Looks almost like Havok but the bodies sway a little too much. Its like they never stop moving. Whenever someone dies there head drops then sways side to side pretty much until they disappear.

7. Swastika's- Im no Nazi but I am a history buff. Having no swastika's removes some immersion. The Iron Cross is not a proper substitute.

Now it seems like Im nitpicking and I am. But theres no reason why these changes shouldnt be made for realism's sake and just for eye candy in general. Theres so much more I like graphically than I dont like but theres no reason to spend forever writing that up. An incredible job has been done and the authenticity blows every other game out of the water. All that needs to be changed is the few small things I listed.
 
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Amerikaner has some really good points escpecially about the Kar98k, any german caught with a sight hood on would probably be laughed off the battlefield, it was just a quick german attempt to protect the front sight like all of their enemies rifles had.

The safety thing makes me think who made the Kar98k held it but never fired it! Im not worried about the markings and stampings being on the wrong area its cool that you can see them and thats a good thing to show detail.

The mauser kar98k bayonet seems a little out of place too, you have this really nice factory fresh looking rifle then put a bayonet that is almost silver and has no blueing on it. Like in the mod german bayonets were blued to almost black and should be like that.

The PDA thing is a little over done too, i liked the mods version of the map it was good enough to help out nubs getting around but still was realisitc, hell i was a huge fan of the ones back in the ut2003 days that were sometimes just a peice of paper that had objectives drawn on it, something that was probably very common!

Like kaner i dont want to give off the impression im hating on the game which im def not, I love it more than anyone. But for the sake of realism It def help the immersion and realistic feel.
 
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Amerikaner said:
2. German Player Models: There are times when they look excellent. The equipment on the back is amazing, the upper body looks excellent. However, theres some things that dont live up to the great parts:

a) German Legs- something about the bottom half that irks me. Maybe its the Napoleon Dynamite style boots. Theyre too big maybe. Also around the thigh area the textures look less sharp. The legs as a whole might even be too small. Im sorry I cant pinpoint it but the Russians just look leagues ahead of the Germans.

b) German Faces- Some faces are incredible. They outshine any other game out there. You can see the scratches, dirt, everything. Wonderful. However, theres an inconsistency. There are other German player models that have no where near the detail of those few great ones. Theres almost no texture on their face. No grit at all. Ill post screens soon.

c) German Face Nationality- Why is it that there are no blonde haired Germans? Of course not all Germans looked like the "perfect race" but it doesnt look like any do in Ostfront. They look more Italian than Aryan on the whole. Russian faces are absolutely awe-inspiring and they actually look straight from Russia.

d) German Uniforms- While you can tell the detail from up close, far away it looks like a low quality texture. It seems theres too many shades of green around the model. Russians have that nice solid look that the Germans dont. Also, please add some variety. The Germans have the same model/texture on every map, no matter what campaign or battle.

a) The German soldier you see in-game was based upon high-resolution photographs and various references that I posed for with accurate field gear and uniforms. Our 3D artists did an excellent job matching their character work with the references I provided.

b) Yes, some faces are cleaner than others- this was done to indicate that some men were in combat longer than others.

c) There aren't too many "Aryan" Germans primarily because we didn't want to play into the ideology of that concept.

d) We were limited as to what uniforms and field gear could be implemented in the first retail release.
 
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Polygon said:
a) The German soldier you see in-game was based upon high-resolution photographs and various references that I posed for with accurate field gear and uniforms. Our 3D artists did an excellent job matching their character work with the references I provided.

Still, you gotta admit the Russians look sharper. Like I said, they have that solid look. They look a little more "cartoony" but it works very well. That blotchy texture work on the current models, imo, doesnt work as well. Hell, just take a look at your sig Polygon. Theres a nice solid texture style that would work.

Polygon said:
b) Yes, some faces are cleaner than others- this was done to indicate that some men were in combat longer than others.

I dont think I explained my point good enough. I dont have a problem with clean faces but the texture just isnt as sharp as the dirty ones. It seems like way more time was spent perfecting the dirty ones.

Polygon said:
c) There aren't too many "Aryan" Germans primarily because we didn't want to play into the ideology of that concept.

With all due respect, if you're going to reach for unparalled realism, you should actually do it. **** the concepts, Germans actually looked like that. Why give more respect to ignorant people who would get upset over this than to realism and history? Doesnt make sense. The ideology of your concept is what bothers me: not representing history. Ignoring the past, especially by a group of guys who is supposed to recreate it, is unthinkable to me. Please dont get caught up in political bull**** like this and actually represent the war from every aspect.

Polygon said:
d) We were limited as to what uniforms and field gear could be implemented in the first retail release.

I understand. I just dont want this to turn out like the models in CS where once the game is out, releasing new content is such a low priority that it takes a year to release 3 player models.
 
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With all due respect, if you're going to reach for unparalled realism, you should actually do it. **** the concepts, Germans actually looked like that. Why give more respect to ignorant people who would get upset over this than to realism and history? Doesnt make sense. The ideology of your concept is what bothers me: not representing history. Ignoring the past, especially by a group of guys who is supposed to recreate it, is unthinkable to me. Please dont get caught up in political bull**** like this and actually represent the war from every aspect.

Let's avoid being antagonistic here: we are most certainly not ignoring history in any way or attempting to achieve political correctness in Red Orchestra. I believe you misunderstood me when I said that we were not playing into the "Aryan" idealization of the average German soldier. In spite of the fact that having blond hair and blue eyes was exalted throughout the Third Reich, not every enlistedman fell into that upper tier, "racial" category. That is what I was trying to represent with these faces as opposed to some sort of ideological, glamorized appearance for each of these soldiers in regards to their physical traits.

Although perhaps in the future, I will try to incorporate more blonds than I had in the game. Obviously as I had stated, there was no "grand conspiracy" as you seem to suggest with avoiding the "Aryan" appearance for the average German soldier, but more or less to avoid the "stereotyped" depiction if anything else.

I understand. I just dont want this to turn out like the models in CS where once the game is out, releasing new content is such a low priority that it takes a year to release 3 player models.
It won't, we have stated on numerous occasions that there will be updates following the release of this game.
 
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Amerikaner said:
...
4. "World War II PDA" Map- Cmon, soldiers didnt carry around little electronic pda's to show them where arty would drop and the like. Quite frankly, this is absurd. Just have a simple piece of paper with a crude drawing or aerial recon photo as it would have been in the war. Retain the arrow to help new guys acclimate but thats as easy as it should get.
...
Great post 'kaner.

Even if I am not 100% with all your points, the point 4 (^) is the most anoying thing in Ostfront for me. The mod "PDA" was 100 times better but the idea with the piece of paper is even more awesome. (Kiev ftw!!!)
 
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Amerikaner said:
With all due respect, if you're going to reach for unparalled realism, you should actually do it. **** the concepts, Germans actually looked like that. Why give more respect to ignorant people who would get upset over this than to realism and history? Doesnt make sense. The ideology of your concept is what bothers me: not representing history. Ignoring the past, especially by a group of guys who is supposed to recreate it, is unthinkable to me. Please dont get caught up in political bull**** like this and actually represent the war from every aspect.
You got to be kidding right?

have a look at this picture and tell me how many of them have blonde hair?

151g6dz.jpg


right...this aryan thing is simply non-sense.
 
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1. Mauser Kar98k Sight hood- Theres been a ton of requests to get this removed. Its unrealistic. That right there should be good enough cause. In additon to that the majority of people Ive talked to think it looks bad and gets in the way of aiming. Also, theres a clipping problem during the bayonet attachment. The animation plays as if the sight hood werent even there. The avatar slides his fingers right through it instead of around. Please, please, please, get rid of this.
NOOOOOOOOOOO!
Don't get rid of it. If something has to be done, make it optional. I love the sight hood, it really helps me aim.
 
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radix said:
Great post 'kaner.

Even if I am not 100% with all your points, the point 4 (^) is the most anoying thing in Ostfront for me. The mod "PDA" was 100 times better but the idea with the piece of paper is even more awesome. (Kiev ftw!!!)
That is something I would agree with.

I really liked the map in Vietcong, which was basically a wooden frame with a map in it.

A real modelled paper map would just rock, especially if you could hold it with your arms like you do with weapons in the game!
That would be like pure realism and would take away a small part of HUD!

It would require some modelling work and animating work, but it'll really pay off! :D
 
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