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Rolling grenades and throw back grenades...

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#61
You guys have to understand that some situations will inevitably lead to death.

The point is to not get in those situations in the first place.

I'll bet many a soldier died by simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If we want HOS to be as authentic of an experience as possible, this needs to be represented the same way.

Throwing grenades back falls into the same category of outstanding actions like using your helmet as a club, or using mortar projectiles as grenades (ala SPR).

Sure, these things MAY have happened at one time or another, but RO isn't another Call of Duty or Medal of Honor where every old man's exaggerated flashback becomes a reality. It's a gritty, realistic experience and it should stay that way.
 
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#62
I'll repeat myself.....
Floyd said:
Just as long as the grenade blows up in about 4 seconds after the saftey lever is released and has a lethal blast radius of about 15 yds (13m), I don't care what you can do with it.

... if you pick it up, toss it and it explodes in the air, more than likely you will not only kill yourself but also get some teammates killed ....
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RE: smoke grenades
One might be able to throw back a wooden handled smoke grenade, but I'd like to see the burn you would get from picking up a cannister style smoke grenade.
 
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#63
I really doubt that if they include a throw back ability that everyone is going to be running towards grenades trying to chuck them back at the enemy. It's not like it'd be advertised that this is just the thing to do when you see a grenade. There'd be no "here's the grenade just hit 'g' anywhere in this area to throw it back" icon that pops up when it lands by you or anything like that. Unless a grenade landed in an area where you could immediately see it and reach it there's really no chance that you would be able to throw it back before it detonated.

Even if when RO:HOS first came out there was a mad dash towards live grenades people would learn in the course of about 2 seconds that it was a terrible, terrible idea. Dying in RO might not carry the same consequences as dying in reality, but it
 
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#64
I entirely agree with Gaston. I also like Milkman's example as there will be situations when prone and a grenade lands itself right in front of your face. What realism is it if you just have to wait the agonising 3 odd seconds until it explodes without being able to do something? You should atleast be able to flick it away or push it away!

But yaknow I dont want the game to turn into as many a post have stressed - another call of duty.
However the ability to pick up nades and throw them back is in Day of Defeat Source. I dont know if anyone noticed but almost no one uses the ability - people prefer to run away as atleast 8/10 it'll blow up before you know it, or even if you do throw it you'll suffer some damage. So running is the best option.
Call of duty on the other hand where you have this overly large grenade indicator and a promoter to press what button to throw it back does rid it of realism (not that players of call of duty care for realism). This by no means would be implemented in RO so I think that the grenade throw-back system would be safe and be like Day of Defeat source. I dont think it'll just be this massive throwback fest but rather a last (and I mean last) minute option when in dire straits to throw it back (and most times when thrown back be quite ineffective)
 
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#65
SturmSS said:
I entirely agree with Gaston. I also like Milkman's example as there will be situations when prone and a grenade lands itself right in front of your face. What realism is it if you just have to wait the agonising 3 odd seconds until it explodes without being able to do something? You should atleast be able to flick it away or push it away!

But yaknow I dont want the game to turn into as many a post have stressed - another call of duty.
However the ability to pick up nades and throw them back is in Day of Defeat Source. I dont know if anyone noticed but almost no one uses the ability - people prefer to run away as atleast 8/10 it'll blow up before you know it, or even if you do throw it you'll suffer some damage. So running is the best option.
Call of duty on the other hand where you have this overly large grenade indicator and a promoter to press what button to throw it back does rid it of realism (not that players of call of duty care for realism). This by no means would be implemented in RO so I think that the grenade throw-back system would be safe and be like Day of Defeat source. I dont think it'll just be this massive throwback fest but rather a last (and I mean last) minute option when in dire straits to throw it back (and most times when thrown back be quite ineffective)
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I agreeeeeeeeeee
 
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#66
SturmSS said:
I entirely agree with Gaston. I also like Milkman's example as there will be situations when prone and a grenade lands itself right in front of your face. What realism is it if you just have to wait the agonising 3 odd seconds until it explodes without being able to do something? You should atleast be able to flick it away or push it away!

But yaknow I dont want the game to turn into as many a post have stressed - another call of duty.
However the ability to pick up nades and throw them back is in Day of Defeat Source. I dont know if anyone noticed but almost no one uses the ability - people prefer to run away as atleast 8/10 it'll blow up before you know it, or even if you do throw it you'll suffer some damage. So running is the best option.
Call of duty on the other hand where you have this overly large grenade indicator and a promoter to press what button to throw it back does rid it of realism (not that players of call of duty care for realism). This by no means would be implemented in RO so I think that the grenade throw-back system would be safe and be like Day of Defeat source. I dont think it'll just be this massive throwback fest but rather a last (and I mean last) minute option when in dire straits to throw it back (and most times when thrown back be quite ineffective)
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Mr Milkman said:
I agreeeeeeeeeee
Click to expand...

So do I.
 
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#67
So you want to add something that would be admittedly ineffective most of the time, and not even a possibility to use in most situations? Just because it was possible and might have happened to a handful of soldiers in the war?

Well why not add other similarly rare actions like I listed above as well? We'll be having fun with sticky bombs, helmet clubs, and mortar grenades in no time. Maybe we could use some spiked knuckles to punch germans to death with, you know at least somebody had a set in Stalingrad.
 
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#68
Reise said:
So you want to add something that would be admittedly ineffective most of the time, and not even a possibility to use in most situations? Just because it was possible and might have happened to a handful of soldiers in the war?

Well why not add other similarly rare actions like I listed above as well? We'll be having fun with sticky bombs, helmet clubs, and mortar grenades in no time. Maybe we could use some spiked knuckles to punch germans to death with, you know at least somebody had a set in Stalingrad.
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What he said.
 
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#69
The reason people want the function is not because people could throw back grenades generally. It's because in game I've many a time been in a situation where I myself would have tried to throw a grenade away.

Well why not add other similarly rare actions like I listed above as well? We'll be having fun with sticky bombs, helmet clubs, and mortar grenades in no time. Maybe we could use some spiked knuckles to punch germans to death with, you know at least somebody had a set in Stalingrad.
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Those things require you to go and carry something rare with you to utilize it, and generally will never require any need in the game. When you cannot run away and a grenade lands next to you, everybody sane will try to throw the thing as far from himself as possible, rather than just watch it till it blows up.

If you want to compare it to another similarly rare action it would be better to compare it to being able to use your fists when you have no weapons left.
 
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#70
Zetsumei said:
The reason is not because people could throw back grenades generally. Its because in game I've many a time been in a situation where I myself would have tried to throw a grenade away.



Those things require you to go and carry something rare with you to utilize it, and generally will never require any need in the game. When you cannot run away and a grenade lands next to you, everybody sane will try to throw the thing as far from himself as possible, rather than just watch it till it blows up.

If you want to compare it to another similarly rare action it would be better to compare it to being able to use your fists when you have no weapons left.
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again I totally agree.. but maybe I will give up on this argument. Not give IN. It just seems to be going around in circles.
And maybe not brass knuckles (I miss my pair that I had to store back in Japan :() but you should be able to swing when your weaponless..
 
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#71
Exactly. This is something that everyone would be able to do at any given time. The problem with comparing it to bras knuckes and all that is that those are specific actions that only a few people would even have access to.
Also, this isn't just a cool special feature; it's the difference between life and death, which is going to be everso more important with the new medals and heroes thingies.
 
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#72
You all gracefully missed my point about rare actions.

Spiked knuckles or no, punching an enemy soldier to death is a very situational and rare action. I'd put money on there being a very low percentage of soldiers who ever actually accomplished such a thing during the course of the war.

Same goes for throwing grenades back. Yes, like punching someone to death, it is entirely possible and anyone could do it given the opportunity. My point is that such opportunities are so statistically improbable that they shouldn't be included as a gameplay feature for the game.

Not to mention there would be a lot of implied balance issues surrounding the feature, and for something so situational, it has a great chance of being abused. I can hear the cries on the forums about it already.
 
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#75
Unlike fighting hand to hand, having to deal with a grenade is something that is forced upon a player relatively frequently in game play; at least every minute one is going to have to deal with a grenade on a map like Danzig. Having your weapon shot out of your hands and living more than 2 seconds after is not a common occurrence, especially in a situation where one would need to immediately continue fighting. In a map like Danzig at least every 5 to 10 minutes I get into a situation where it would behoove me to be able to return an enemy grenade.

So no, I don't believe I have missed your point Reise; I just feel that the frequency of this issue merits some kind of remedial representation in the game. Besides which, it shouldn't take that much effort on the part of TWI to implement a throw back feature; so unless such a feature is going to be detrimental to the game I say they should go ahead and put it in.
 
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#76
Reise said:
You all gracefully missed my point about rare actions.

Spiked knuckles or no, punching an enemy soldier to death is a very situational and rare action. I'd put money on there being a very low percentage of soldiers who ever actually accomplished such a thing during the course of the war.

Same goes for throwing grenades back. Yes, like punching someone to death, it is entirely possible and anyone could do it given the opportunity. My point is that such opportunities are so statistically improbable that they shouldn't be included as a gameplay feature for the game.

Not to mention there would be a lot of implied balance issues surrounding the feature, and for something so situational, it has a great chance of being abused. I can hear the cries on the forums about it already.
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Well buddy, you'd loose your money. Hand to hand combat was extremely frequent during the battle of Stalingrad. Low ammo, close urban fighting etc.. here's some quotes from a WW2 history site and some quotes from some men who were there themselves:

The ferocity of the fighting at Stalingrad shocked the Germans, who were used to the relative ease of their Blitzkrieg tactics. Suddenly they were faced with hand-to-hand combat, often only yards away from the enemy. 'Our principle was to grab hold of the enemy and not let go; to hold him very close - as you'd hold a loved one', says Anatoly Mersko, who served under General Chuikov.

Soviet veteran Suren Mirzoyan remembers the blood lust of the time. 'I was like a beast. I wanted only one thing - to kill. You know how it looks when you squeeze a tomato and juice comes out? Well, it looked like that when I stabbed them. Blood everywhere. Every step in Stalingrad meant death. Death was in our pockets. Death was walking with us.'

taken from: http://pictureshistory.blogspot.com/2009/12/unseen-pictures-of-battle-of-stalingrad.html

War is crazy ****. Guys don't just stand behind barricades 30m or 50m away and take turns in shooting at each other. A lot of crazy **** happens, and throwing a nade back or beating someone to death with bare hands or gutting them would have been the least crazy thing going on in Stalingrad. In fact I'd place MY money on the fact that it would have been a daily occurrence.
 
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#77
Here's another example I found by accident of a soldier in WW2 kicking a nade back:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2009-04-10/bay-area/17191676_1_german-soldiers-mr-dunham-russell-dunham

"Heavily armed, Mr. Dunham scrambled 75 yards up a snow-covered hill toward three German machine-gun emplacements. He took out the first bunker with a grenade. Advancing toward the second, he glanced around to call up his squad and a bullet hit him in the back, tearing open a 10-inch gash. As he struggled to his feet, a grenade landed nearby; he kicked it away before it exploded."
 
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#78
Here's another situation that I haven't seen mentioned here:

What about dead nades? If the guy next to you pulls out a grenade to throw it out of the window/trench/cover/whatever and he gets shot, shouldn't you have the chance to get rid of the damn thing? Especially given that unlike with an enemy grenade, the dead nade is likely to have most of its fuse left.
 
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#79
Bobdog said:
Here's another situation that I haven't seen mentioned here:

What about dead nades? If the guy next to you pulls out a grenade to throw it out of the window/trench/cover/whatever and he gets shot, shouldn't you have the chance to get rid of the damn thing? Especially given that unlike with an enemy grenade, the dead nade is likely to have most of its fuse left.
Click to expand...

*wink wink* *nudge nudge* feature added *cough*
 
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