Maybe the Demo class shouldn't have been made at all?

[GumbyKid]

Instead, how about they added the explosives to the firebug class. I mean, firebug is a pyro, right? pyro is all pyrotechnics and thats fireworks, which are explosives. With firebug already having the flamethrower, it could have been given weaker explosives without making the class useless. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[trilance]

There's a difference between a pyrotechnic and a demolitions expert.

The first specializes in the destruction of a target or targets through combustion while the latter specializes in the destruction of a target or gargets through explosive force. The class is hardly useless, but just very, very, left behind.

We got that class because we asked for it. They're not going to take it out just because we realized that while in theory the class seemed like a good idea, in actuality it's terrible.

 

[Naozumie]

Besides balancing issues, the Demo class is a nice addition to have. I still believe that giving the L.A.W. to the Demo class would make both the Demo and the Support Specialist feel more suitable and complete, though.

 

[Shambler]

When a demo joins the server I'm in, I leave the server.

I really dislike the demo class.

 

[DocDave]

There's a difference between a pyrotechnic and a demolitions expert.

Demolitions uses explosives or non-military equipment like wrecking balls to desetroy stationary buildings.

Pyrotechnics uses explosives and rockets to create noise, and lights via ensuing burning materials.

I don't see either one being better suited to killing zombies with grenade launchers and pipe bombs than the other, really. Not that I think FB should have been given the 'nade launchers, though.

Maybe after TWI tweaks balance, the demo will look better? What's so wrong with them, anyway? They're certainly not worse off than FB or Zerker, and probably better, imo.

 

[Nanostrike]

When a demo joins the server I'm in, I leave the server.

I really dislike the demo class.

On Suicidal, Demos are frequently told to change class or get kicked. It usually ends with a kicking. Past Hard (And one could even argue that it's really normal where they shine) their damage is pretty sad, disrupts the team with screen-shaking, obscures vision with smoke, and pisses off Scrakes/FPs that they tend to main but never actually kill.

Dead-serious, you'll have a hard time taking on anything bigger than Clots and crawlers with the 'Nade launchers on Suicidal. 2 DIRECT HITS from a Level 5 demo to take down a freaking Gorefast, taking almost double that if it's only splash. Plus, until they're Level 5/6 (And few are. Most that are have farmed...) their gear is immensely expensive, so they're a money-sink for the team.

On Normal/Hard, they shine taking out FPs quickly and decimating hordes. On Suicidal, a Pipe Bomb and 6 Nades STILL doesn't down an FP and nades only scatter the horde out and potentially ruin teammates shots while simultaneously covering the enemy in smoke. Probably the worst factor to this is that good demos are VERY, VERY rare. Many, many Level 6'ers have farmed somehow, so it's not a representation of skill in most cases. And nothing is worse for a team than a bad demoman.

And the insane pipe-bomb spam by Level 6 demomen is not only a money sink as a trio of Clots waste his pipes or a Scrake/FP charges over them, detonating them without a scratch, but it steals kills from other team-members while obscuring vision. IMO, the massive no-skill minefields of Level 5 and 6 demos is the mark of a nublet, not a skilled demoman. The only thing it's good for is making me laugh as they gib themselves on their own pipes.

A team with more than 1 demo is usually unplayable due to "Boom spam". I tend to switch servers if there are 2 or more demos. And the excessive pipe-bomb-spam that high-level demos put out is nothing short of ridiculousness. The class needs a look by Tripwire, because as is, it's more of a nuisance than a help to a Suicidal team.

Sorry if this is coming off as harsh, but I'm really, really sick of Demomen wrecking otherwise-good suicidal teams. At the current time, demoman isn't a viable suicidal class.

 

[Shambler]

That and all demo players are DICKS.

 

[gusone]

I am not a fan of pipe bombs but I am a fan of the grenade launchers and that's coming from a friendly fire fan. I really hate the pipe bomb spam, it just kills the game. I would prefer the pipe bombs are removed and demos get breaching apparatus with explosive charges. I.e. They can stick a bomb to a welded door (but only one at a time). So they get a big bang but that's it and not the train of Zeds ambling down tripping a line of 10 pipe bombs. I love the smoke from grenade launchers and would not change that. I find it fun wondering if that FP I just caught a glimpse of in all the smoke is going to come charging out of it or if it died... Just get rid of the pipe bomb spam - silly idea and totally abused.

 

[MasterCheff]

I like the idea of the demoman. But i agree with all of you, since i'm a new player and i've tried suicidal a demoman does no good there. The demoman needs another added weapon to its arsenal besides nade spam and pipe bomb spam. Also pipe bombs were meant for crowd control how would you feel if the demo didn't lay down any pipes and all of the specimens came charging down the hall like its middle earth charging mordor.

 

[HaTeMe]

The only thing wrong about demolitions expert is the smoke screen which disturbs teammates...

Just make it visible to the owner, but invisible for everyone else - problem solved. Demolitions wouldnt bother teammates anymore but they would still get the disadvantage of not seeing through their own smoke.

 

[Evalora]

I only spam pipe bombs when things get scary, like patriarch time.. he usually runs too fast for them to detonate right, though.

That and all demo players but Zero are DICKS.

I couldn't agree more~

 

[MasterCheff]

Don't blame me when i don't plant pipe bombs on normal .

 

[Zerethon]

I would prefer the pipe bombs are removed and demos get breaching apparatus with explosive charges. I.e. They can stick a bomb to a welded door (but only one at a time). So they get a big bang but that's it and not the train of Zeds ambling down tripping a line of 10 pipe bombs. I love the smoke from grenade launchers and would not change that. I find it fun wondering if that FP I just caught a glimpse of in all the smoke is going to come charging out of it or if it died... Just get rid of the pipe bomb spam - silly idea and totally abused.

This is how i use my pipes on suicidal anyways =/

Weld door, drop 2 pipes, run like hell (Substitute 2 for 1 early on, or 3 for 2 late wave)

People sing a different tune about me being demo when i lock down and blow up a good 30% of a wave with trapped doors alone, toss in me using 9mm+M79 early and 9mm+M32 late + some other backup and you've got a wonderful walk of chaos and dismembered bodies

and to the person who mentioned gores, 2 hits of splash damage from an M79/M32 @Level 6 demo usually kills them, and anything else little around them, OR you can decap them with a couple 9mm rounds and walk away, and not waste your expensive shiny grenades on them

Demo just takes skill to be good with, Hating them and leaving servers because of them just makes you look like a tool

 

[Shambler]

Demo just takes skill to be good with, Hating them and leaving servers because of them just makes you look like a tool

Not if you leave quietly.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

pipebombs really are great though when you get to FP waves......great for covering your back in certain spots if you've got a welded door behind you. also great if you're getting overrun and need an escape route. it is kinda retarded though that a siren can blow one up and all it takes is the mass of the bloat to set one off. it shouldn't go by like "space taken up" but amount of specimen.

the damage from the nade launchers does seem to be way less effective in suicidal, even as a level6. but it's still good enough for clean up, just not for the big targets like FP/Scrakes.

the only thing that really kills the demoman is the smoke. just like the fire is with firebugs......it makes it difficult for the others to see. but that's on the demo to know when to shoot and when not to shoot. there are times when 1 well placed grenade will clear out 10-12 raging zeds. shooting 3 nades from the m32 when there's a FP or scrake in the mix, not a good idea.

also depends on the map. as long as there is a lot of space to put between your team and where you're funneling in the horde, it's not as big of a deal. small confined areas on the other hand hurt the team with the smoke as well as hurt you as the demo risking blowing yourself up.

so i don't think the demo is worthless so long as it's used right. just like the zerker, firebug, medic etc...every perk has it's positives and negatives. trick is to figure out the positive features and maximize the effectiveness of the class, their weapons and abilities.

 

[Ruckus]

If I die because FPs and Scrakes overrun a map and the team is wiped, the #1 reason would be demos. All that smoke, can't see. So much noise can't hear whether crawlers or invisible ladies are behind you or not. And the explosives rarely kill but cause the sirens, the husks, scrakes and FPs to just leap across to the other side, causing you to refocus once again.

Overall, if I see a demo coming near me, I run. With Scrake and FP, I'll find a spot and take it down quick, not with demo. He's the ultimate specimen as far as I'm concerned. I keep running until I can't see the smoke from his useless explosives. Run run, OMG it's another demo, run a different direction. Auugh another demo, /disconnect, /find another server.

 

[Ruckus]

Not if you leave quietly.

Agreed. If I see more than 2 demos I just silently disconnect, I'd prefer zero, but tolerate 1. 2, I leave, just not worth it. My ears thank me later anyways and I'm far less frustrated or annoyed. I don't even care if the demo is the greatest ever, if 2 amazing demos exist, I still leave.

But demos aren't the only ones, if I see 2 sharpshooter spamming M14s mindlessly I leave also. I just don't want to play with players who prefer to spam an M14 like a tool than be useful with a crossbow. A commander can spam and clear out the easy specimens just as easily along with support.

 

[Blackhandsaint]

Honestly, I think that the only real problem with the demo expert is the smoke. I think it either needs to fade much, much quicker or be removed entirely. Other than that, though, it's a viable trash mob cleanup option on suicidal and provided the player lets the sharp shooters take care of the FPs and scrakes, there's no real issue. Hell, I've even played as a demo on a server with another demo and not had too much overlap. All you have to do is either take a different firing lane or fire at a different location (preferably behind the first shot to avoid smoke stacking) in the same area.

 

[Reise]

There's something wrong with Demolitions now? You people take this game way too seriously.

Kicking people from games just because they want to play certain perks? Damn, just give me the IPs so I know what servers to stay away from.

 

[Pornhorse]

Have we now reached the point where we're just looking for something to ***** at? Cuz this is what it seems like.