Tactics How "teamy" should teamwork be?

[SpurryMoses]

It's occurred to me (while dying) that "teamwork" could be overrated in KF.

One problem is that bunched players inevitably fire shots at the same zombie.
Simply because they don't know which the other player is firing at. This surely wastes ammo and time - and if you were to add this up (analyze it) during battles, it must have a significant effect on the outcome. Especially considering the fine line between team failure and survival in many cases.

I have played games where some players are shooting nothing but zombies moments after someone else has already killed it. And I'm not calling them stupid - sometimes the location and position promote that.

So I'm wondering if anyone else has picked up on this, and specifically set up teams where the dynamic is to minimize this?

Maybe splitting up teams into groups of 2 or 3 is more efficient in this regard. Or even each player taking a corner or section, individually? At the very least, the idea of "all sticking together" is surely overrated.

To support this, I've noticed that when 2 rogue players in a team of 6 go off on their own, it actually seems to have benefited the team by regulating the onslaught.
And it seems to makes sense that if 6 players are shooting madly at 25 zombies and many are double-shooting and targeting the same zombie, that this would be much less effective than if each player were shooting at a unique zombie. This is perhaps impossible, but isn't this the ultimate in attack?

Obviously it's hard to organize complicated tactics without mics etc but is there something that smart players (ie not me) are doing already in regard to this? Or should be?

One obvious way is to allocate certain zombies to perks. Berserkers to Scrakes, for example. In fact, I've found this necessary. Any other thoughts?

 

[Nanostrike]

Funny thing is that if you have a Sharpshooter that can actually, reliably headshot the Skrakes, they go down absurdly easy to that compared to the Zerkers...

 

[Anemia]

I'm always playing (cant play at the moment due to that bug mentioned in the support fora tho) on suicidal and often with people i know pretty well, at least people i trust. Everyone at the same place works pretty bad due to friendly fire. But without assigning specific roles we almost always get different tasks. Like if I'm running around with a commando (i almost always play as zerk) i leave most of the regular zeds to him and just try to make him not loose any armor ^^. but on later waves I finish off scrakies and fps.

But as you say going All together often works pretty bad. High ammowaste and alot of FF-damage taken.

But you dont have to use mic to be able to use pretty advanced tactics. If your like me have played KF with someone for over a year you know how he/she will react and do when things starts to get intense. And it's enough with a couple of shortcommands My opinion at least

 

[Steg]

I noticed this the other day on farm. People were pretty much sticking together (which is amazing) but when we got to an outpost, there was a lot of overlap. I tried to help by moving over to an end with fewer people, but then either there's no monsters and the other guys get swarmed, or there's monsters and more people come over to help. Sometimes if someone is doing ok, especially with a shotgun or melee, I'll just back up behind him and pick off nasty things and leave the rest to him. I don't kill much, but I think it helps to have crawlers and invisible women picked off before they get to him.

It's kind of hard to coordinate (and I don't like telling people what to do) but the buddy system seems to work ok. Pick someone competent, and follow them around for a few rounds, and a system tends to work itself out. More than 2 people in a spot can get a little frustrating and crowded, but clumps of 2 people spread across an area (like outside the house on... that house map, with the tunnels) is super great.

 

[HunnyPot]

I'm usually by myself, but not far off from the main group. I find that when the team is all together and things start to get rough, it's panic time. It gets really crowded and it's difficult to move around. Not to mention if you're trying to throw grenades and one hits the back of a teammate and blows you up instead!

IMO spacing in a map is important. For me, as I have mentioned in other threads, I play as a Sharpie, so I like the space. I tend to watch the "backdoor" so to speak. In the higher waves, at least one teammate figures out that they have a better chance of surviving if they stick around with me, thus enabling the whole team to go onto the next wave.

 

[Bio666]

1. add laser aiming to guns
2. Educate common sense: aim at unlighted zed
3. ???
4. Profit.

 

[kikin chikin]

All it takes is to get people to guard a slightly larger area than your instinct tells you will be safe, and then get the team to split the fire to guard the entrances. For instance, get the whole team inbetween the house and the docks right by the fences. Two people can watch the side coming from the docks and both tunnels, two people can watch the house, and two can work their way around closer to the helicopter. It splits the zeds wonderfully, and with a halfway competent medic who can help cover one of the spots while quickly healing when necessary, you will easily make it through the entire 10 waves.

It just requires a minute amount of discipline to hold your area and not fall back everytime a zed gets too close. With the zeds split this much, the other players can easily provide reinforcement for an fp or skrake who is a potential threat.

If you try to bottleneck the entire map full of zeds into one entrance (i.e. "U-room" in biotics lab, police station or gate in West London, or the control room on foundry) You will eventually be overrun when a bulletsponge like an fp or skrake gets in the way and a pile of zeds are able to get too close before spilling over you. You have to have some really good players to handle that type of action, and it will be rare with a pug to get a high level mix that you would require.

 

[SpurryMoses]

I'm always playing (cant play at the moment due to that bug mentioned in the support fora tho) on suicidal and often with people i know pretty well, at least people i trust. Everyone at the same place works pretty bad due to friendly fire. But without assigning specific roles we almost always get different tasks. Like if I'm running around with a commando (i almost always play as zerk) i leave most of the regular zeds to him and just try to make him not loose any armor ^^. but on later waves I finish off
scrakies and fps.

Right. Actually, I'll be playing on suicidal from now on as I just got my "Long War" achievement - all maps on "Hard".
I can't imagine ever winning the "Offices" map on suicidal, but I'm sure I'll need someone I get to know.

 

[Bio666]

Dunno, but somehow I feel office is better when it get harder. It just happens that I manage to get thru it better than any other default maps on suicidal.

Maybe it's lucky me

 

[Jameh]

One problem is that bunched players inevitably fire shots at the same zombie.

That's not teamwork, that's just people doing their own thing while standing next to other people.

Yesterday, I was leveling Beserker in Biolab, and doing really well. Someone joined, went Commando, and stood behind me, shooting EVERYTHING except for Crawlers, and ran off once he raged a Scrake/Fleshpound. I would go off into other areas, but he'd just follow me (I try not to get in other people's way as beserker). I got really pissed off, but eh, that's why good teams are so much fun to play with, right?

As a Sharpshooter (My main class), I usually try to keep the flanks clear. When someone's running from a Fleshpound, instead of plinking away with my LAR, I clear the way for them to run and let the heavier classes do their thing.

As for splitting up, being in teams of two and spreading out over a small area works amazingly, just be sure you're all close enough to come together if you get a group of Fleshpounds or someone get's trapped. Mics are crucial for this though, because taking the time to type gets you killed, and I don't even bother to read text.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

teamwork wins maps plain and simple. for all the maps on hard and suicidal i've won (all maps on all levels btw), i've done it working with a good team of players. i guess it also helps that i was playing with clanmates in vent, and we were communicating in game with the others using mics.

basically, if each role focuses on their jobs, i.e. killing specific zeds, welding a door, healling etc.....then teamwork pays off. at first, i thought the same thing......why is everybody shooting at the same stuff?!?!? only one guy gets the kill and it's a waste of ammo and money. that's when you've got to realize that yes, each role should be focusing on a few zed classes to kill. not only is it beneficial to the team eliminating a specific threat with your specialty skills, but you also do save ammo and money.

a sharpshooter wasting bolts on crawlers and clots does not know what he is doing or just doesnt care and is out to get all the headshots he can. a zerker going after sirens with a katana, same thing. people who know the game and how to play when working together will be successful. the trick is finding those people and getting together to play. usually on servers i play on, which i only play suicidal now, i'll have at least another 2 or 3 besides me that know what they are doing so we can usually cover for 1 or 2 who don't have a clue....eventually they learn though lol cause they don't want to keep dying or having no money.

 

[Nanostrike]

a sharpshooter wasting bolts on crawlers and clots does not know what he is doing or just doesnt care and is out to get all the headshots he can. a zerker going after sirens with a katana, same thing.

While I mostly agree with the Sharpshooter point of that (There is something to be said for impaling 5+ Crawlers on one bolt, though!), the Zerker going after Sirens isn't always a newbie or unskilled thing. The classic "Corner ninja" attacks of waiting around a corner and meleeing the Siren when she comes past is a classic.

And with the Katana, if the Siren is focused on someone else, you can easily rush and kill her before she screams... Very often, running away and letting someone else take down the Siren isn't a viable option, and even when it is, it's often a LOT faster and simpler to cut her down before she can scream... Even if she does, your damage resistance shrugs off a good portion of her attack anyway and she shouldn't get more than one scream off!

Anyway...the easiest way to coordinate firing without overlap is to set up a target priority system: Commandos hit crawlers/stalkers ASAP, Sharpshooters go after Skrakes/Sirens, Supports hit the closest specimens, and Zerkers get any specimens that are rushing teammates.

Another way is to designate ranges: Sharpshooter focuses on Zeds at the back, Commando at mid-range, and Support at close-range. Works surprisingly well. Medics can kinda freelance, Zerkers just block whatever is rushing, and the Firebug just sprays flame into the biggest concentration of enemies. In any semi-cohesive team, even in pub games, things tend to naturally fall into one of these two schemes.

 

[Oldih]

I've personally come to the conclusion that on publics, unless you have few players with you you know quite well, quite often any attempt to communicate and to go for the teamwork routine might be doomed the very moment as it's like organizing a group of headless chicken. If you get lucky, well good for you.

As much as this might sound self-explanatonary, positioning plays pretty important part in general besides giving each player their own unique 'job'. Considering that I play on FF servers only it becomes even more important as simply making a dogpile somewhere doesn't need more than one crossbow bolt or shotgun blast or nade and

 

[Gordian]

Back when zerkers were expected to run away from Sirens, I noticed you could easily time it between screams to nail the siren presuming there weren't enough specimens around to devour your precious, precious entrails.

This is however off topic. I do find that the GREAT BIG BLOB OF DAKKA school of tactics leaves a lot to be desired. A lot a lot.

On some maps, [the large open ones.] it's almost beneficial to split up into small teams. Me and a firebug did this on farm and did quite well. On others, positioning is key. [tight, crowded ones with little space.] In offices on the second floor, three in front two in back and one roving between the two is a good setup, or so I feel.

What about the other maps? I still can't quite figure out an easy setup for West London. Or at least not one everyone in the team agrees on. Or biotics. But I hate biotics. And manor. manor has me completely stumped.

 

[gusone]

Bugger. I forgot to my get out my "HELLO MUM" card.

 

[SpurryMoses]

I've personally come to the conclusion that on publics, unless you have few players with you you know quite well

I'm starting to realise that too.
I had a nice game with someone today. And we came up with some brief tactics and built up a report. I'm also starting to believe a mic is necessary.
There are so many times, where I need to tell someone, something complicated like:
"Keep this door welded, I can take out 3 zombies at a time with my crossbow by aiming through the window, so just hang out here and do nothing but weld for me"

Also, although I'm a level 5 Sharpshooter and Support Specialist - I'm still just not a great player. Maybe a 7/10. And I can still die in wave 1 if not careful (or another player doesn't pull their weight). So finding other "Suicidal Newbies" is also good ;-)

 

[smilin]

One concept:

Firing Arcs.


Get your team positioned at those bottlenecks and everyone choose a firing arc. There should be a small amount of overlap but everyone should stick to their arc.

If it's crowded then people up front duck, but everyone hold still. If you need to adjust (say double fp+siren coming) then *communicate* who is going to deal with the new threat and who is going to stick to the arcs.

If you start falling behind in your arc, speak up. Otherwise stick to it and rely on your teammate to stick to his.

People tend to naturally do this on Hard servers. Normal servers and you're maybe 1/4. Forget it on beginner.

 

[omarfw]

It's safer to play together but you're right that efficiency goes down.

A real organized squad would split up into 3 man teams each with appropriate perks and weapons so there's a variety of skills to utilize against different enemies and they would stay somewhat apart but not too apart so they dont all get hit by siren yells and bloat acid but they can help their buddy instantly when he gets raged by a fp.

 

[Oldih]

One concept:

Firing Arcs.

Actually I have seen that more on FF servers than on any nonFF\hard difficulty servers. Those few times I played suicidal it was more of an exception than a rule.

It works well if you have people with you who are willing to communicate actually but with some random people @ public server, well it's more of a lottery

 

[DarkFenix]

People just need to learn the role of their class and stick to it.

Beserkers should sit at the front, taking out clots, gorefasts, stalkers, FPs. Nobody else should be even alongside him. Yes, he'll get the most kills. So what.

Sharpshooters should be aiming for sirens and bloats (both easy one shot kills) primarily, followed by scrakes (still a one shot kill, but beserkers can deal with them easily so less threat), then crawlers (commandos should get these, but putting one HC shot into one makes for easy and useful kills). Only in a situation with none of those types should a sharpshooter even look at another type of zombie.

Firebugs should be igniting then ignoring everything (except FPs) at long range, trying not to fill the team's line of sight with flames too much.

Commandos should focus on crawlers (weak) and bloats (easy headshot) primarily, secondarily sirens (easy headshot too, but more health so easier for an SS) and stalkers (rarely a threat, but can be sometimes if not noticed). They should be completely ignoring FPs and scrakes.

Medics should be sitting behind the beserker, making sure he's alive. When no healing is required he should be picking off weaker zombies that are a threat to his beserker (crawlers, sirens, bloats).

Support specialists are pretty decent all round classes. Normally they should be aiming to cause the maximum possible damage with the least possible ammo. When the **** hits the fan they need to be ready to clear the entire area with grenades and hunting shotgun secondary blasts. What they should NOT be doing is charging out in front of the beserker to kill whore, throwing random grenades that achieve nothing but give the zombies a smokescreen, or trying to snipe with a shotgun. Definitely a class that doesn't have as much of a specific "right" way to play, but plenty of ways people can go wrong.

If everyone sticks to these roles there will be minimal wasted fire, given the nature of the overlapping and complementary roles. A friend and I typically play beserker and sharpshooter respectively, and by understanding our roles can generally (and with little difficulty) hold off a 6 man suicidal wave when the rest of the team (nigh inevitably) dies.