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L4D was a huge success. 3 million people bought it.
to the other thing:
slow motion is slow motion for me :]
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yes, 3 million bought it and a lot of them were disappointed by it, it doesnt contradict my statement, is not about how many bought the game is about how many people still play that game after having completed it 5 times
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if we can trust the steam stats, there are still a lot L4D players..
hmm and 5 times is ok for not hardcore players. i dropped fallout 3 from my hdd after first time completing. and i still love the game, but i need the space
whatever, a l4d clone is not needed and TWI is not gonna make a l4d clone anyway so is meaningless to keep talking about it
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but they should think about copying some good l4d-elements for the money.
you know the money, the money, the money money money.
actually kf2.5 looks like coop quake1. and still like a mod. but i am confident (if they keep an eye on l4d )
you know the money, the money, the money money money.
actually kf2.5 looks like coop quake1. and still like a mod. but i am confident (if they keep an eye on l4d
)
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The only thing that should be "borrowed" out of L4D is some procedural zombie spawning ala "director ai"..
The rest of L4D is bad, cept the animations, and is worse than the KF mod.
All hard mode does in L4D is make you have to shoot them more. It doesn't make it harder. You're still immortal via your melee button.
And on ZEDtime, i wouldn't like a cooldown. Why would you not want chained slowmos?..
The rest of L4D is bad, cept the animations, and is worse than the KF mod.
All hard mode does in L4D is make you have to shoot them more. It doesn't make it harder. You're still immortal via your melee button.
And on ZEDtime, i wouldn't like a cooldown. Why would you not want chained slowmos?..
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There are things I like about this idea, but there is one major turn-off for me.
A lot of KF gameplay is centered around knowing where the influx of specimen will occur and preparing accordingly. The fun-factor for me was the hide-and-seek nature of it, where all the players had to quickly find a hiding spot to hold out against the swarm.
Simultaneously, the idea of specimen pouring into a map from predetermined locations only seems more real to me than dynamic spawning. If I understand you correctly, you are asking for something akin to "you walk along, and suddenly a specimen pops out surprising everyone". For me, KF was less about ambush and more about maintaining key choke points in the map.
If you were holding out against an invasion, the first thing you would probably do is barricade all the entrances to your house. As time passed, they would work their way into the weakest areas of these barricades. By contrast, they wouldn't just suddenly appear in a room waiting to surprise you.
I don't know, maybe I'm just not understanding your whole concept.
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May sound weird, but have you played the mod, or seen anyone play on a reasonable high skill level with the knife, or any melee weapon for that matter?
While having slowmo to even more precisely cut of a Clots/stalker/gorefasts head in one blow with a melee may sound fun, and useful at first, it could get annoying after a while.
Imagine, a group of 6 clots comes at me. Normally, I can take them head on with a knife, and have them all killed in like 7-8 seconds, with minimal damage (say, 5-10% of my health).
Imagine 2 situations for the same scenario, 1 time without ZEDtime, and one with it.
Scenario: 12 clots, 2 groups of 6, with 20m distance between them. You are only armed with a knife, since you are out of ammo.
Situation A:
You charge into the first group of clots. Assuming you have good knifing skills, you sever off all clots their heads, one by one. Killtime for the first group: 10 seconds (charge takes 2 seconds). You run away and heal up while running(3 seconds), and then charge into the second group of clots.
You sever off all the clots their heads once again. Killtime again 10 seconds(with charge).
10 + 10 + 3 = 26 seconds.
Situation B :
You charge into the first group of clots. Assuming you have good knifing skills, you sever off the first clots head. You go in slowmotion from this point on. You sever of all the clots heads.
Killtime: 18 seconds (charge takes 2 seconds, and assuming ZEDtime slows gamespeed down to about 0.5(maybe even less??), so it takes double(maybe even more??) the time to kill the specimen.)
Now, you run away. You need to run longer, since the second group of clots was NOT in the slowmotion radius during the fight with the first group. They moved at "normal" speed, so while you took double the time to kill the first group, it took the same time for them as in situation A to reach you. Now we assume you have to run double the time to make up for this. Run+heal: 6 seconds. Now you charge into the second group of clots.
Sever off all their heads. Killtime: 18 seconds.
18 + 18 + 6 = 42 seconds
Now imagine this happening 2 times. That makes:
Situation A: 26 + 26 = 52 seconds
Situaton B: 42 + 42 = 84 seconds, or 1 minute 24 seconds.
In situation A, you could potentially kill a third group of clots and still have 6 seconds left compared to situation B.
Mind that time could also be dedicated to finding new weapons/ammo, helping your teammates, welding doors, etc.
So, instead of maximizing my effectiveness in the field it actually harms it, which should never be the point of a gameplay feature.
The cooldown period could give you the benefit of slowmotion (better "overview" on the battlefield) without the drawback, mainly that it takes way more time to kill ZEDs.
Lol pure logic ftw
/rant
/rant over
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Yeah, can't have a zom...specimen apocolypse game not being realistic can we now?!!
Actually it has been quite realistic. Considering they're specimen not zombies.
I really liked the movie '28 Days', it was also quite realistic considering it was a zombie-movie. Lol
Also, what makes the mod realistic is the slowish movement speed and limited nr of weapons you can carry. Hope they'll keep that.
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You know I've played it.
And I see what you mean now. The slowmo isn't going to help you any when you're melee'ing people, it's just going to slow down how long it takes to kill. Yeah I see how that'd be really annoying.
I wish the ZEDTime was activated by a button that drained a meter, and the meter was filled by doing stuff. :/ This auto-slowmo does sound like it'd be annoying in any case. When I read the article at first I assumed it'd be button activated, I guess I didnt read close enough.
Really? I figured it was just a limitation, and not intended design. I don't really see what good gameplay element invisible walls that zombies spawn behind is.. Coming over hills, dropping out of vents, dropping down from holes in the ceiling, coming from another room that was just empty a few moments ago(but where no one can see them spawn) is way better.There are things I like about this idea, but there is one major turn-off for me.
A lot of KF gameplay is centered around knowing where the influx of specimen will occur and preparing accordingly. The fun-factor for me was the hide-and-seek nature of it, where all the players had to quickly find a hiding spot to hold out against the swarm.
Simultaneously, the idea of specimen pouring into a map from predetermined locations only seems more real to me than dynamic spawning. If I understand you correctly, you are asking for something akin to "you walk along, and suddenly a specimen pops out surprising everyone". For me, KF was less about ambush and more about maintaining key choke points in the map.
If you were holding out against an invasion, the first thing you would probably do is barricade all the entrances to your house. As time passed, they would work their way into the weakest areas of these barricades. By contrast, they wouldn't just suddenly appear in a room waiting to surprise you.
I don't know, maybe I'm just not understanding your whole concept.
Knowing where they're always going to come from makes it predictable. Predictable is boring. That's why playing vs. AI is usually boring for me---I know the way the AI plays, so I counter that. I don't know how a human will play.
I'm not saying it should be like L4D where you're hunting zombies. But I think it's silly that zombies will spawn across the map where no one is at an slowly come to you, taking forever. Then a new wave doesn't spawn from that point until all those ones that came fom it are dead. Makes more sense that they just spawn closer, no? And less predictability is good..
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Agreed there. But you can't implent that without either making non-accesible spawn areas (hills still require invisible walls, so do rooms that they spawn in, but should be inaccesible to you.) The vent idea is rather nice, but has one major drawback. What if you are retreating from a horde that slowly creeps towards you from the stairs, only to have an Scrake spawn behind you with his chainsaw, grab you 2-3x and bamm your dead. Not fun or rewarding at all. The always check your back thing doesn't go here, since he "suddenly" spawns. And thats only with a scrake. Imagine an FP
.The only way this could be fixed is if Specimens are only allowed to spawn at points when players are not within 15m of the spawn area and not out of 50m (so they don't take forever to reach you.)
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Well invisible walls are fine when they're there to prevent someone from jumping ontop of 5 teamates heads one after another like stairs to get up into the hole they're spawning from.
But invisible walls stopping you from entering a room that zombies come out of is silly.
It's better to make it so they spawn in there when no one sees the room, but if someone is in that room they'll spawn somewhere else.
And with over the hills, you normally shouldn't be able to get up over the hill, it should be too steep. Sure, you can still put an invisible wall up there to be safe, but normally people wouldn't know the wall is there since it takes abnormal means to get to it.
Really, zombies could also just spawn from anywhere, with "super duper intelligent culling detection and player distance detection spawn system" to make sure they don't spawn too close to be unbelievable "hey, i was JUST in that room!", or too far where zombies take forever to reach people, and to make sure people don't see them pop in.
But set spawn areas are good too, like where they come over a hill or drop down from a hole in a ceiling. Would be nice if both..
Like you said, you don't want a FP or scrake spawning in the room right behind the one you've retreated to, that'd make the game too far. But with some minimum distance they'll spawn from people dyanmically set it'd be fine.
There could also be volumes set by mappers such as "don't spawn FP's here, don't spawn scrakes here" to prevent the big units from spawning in places they can't get out of, or it could just be set where only crawlers, gorefasts, bloats, and the basic specimens spawn "dyanmically", while the bigger ones will only spawn from the set spots.
So yeah, I completely agree.
I think the map design doing away with those invisible walls on hallways, and having some dynamic spawning added, and also making zombies not spawn from points on that maps that players are really really far away from would improve it monumentally.
But invisible walls stopping you from entering a room that zombies come out of is silly.
It's better to make it so they spawn in there when no one sees the room, but if someone is in that room they'll spawn somewhere else.
And with over the hills, you normally shouldn't be able to get up over the hill, it should be too steep. Sure, you can still put an invisible wall up there to be safe, but normally people wouldn't know the wall is there since it takes abnormal means to get to it.
Really, zombies could also just spawn from anywhere, with "super duper intelligent culling detection and player distance detection spawn system" to make sure they don't spawn too close to be unbelievable "hey, i was JUST in that room!", or too far where zombies take forever to reach people, and to make sure people don't see them pop in.
But set spawn areas are good too, like where they come over a hill or drop down from a hole in a ceiling. Would be nice if both..
Like you said, you don't want a FP or scrake spawning in the room right behind the one you've retreated to, that'd make the game too far. But with some minimum distance they'll spawn from people dyanmically set it'd be fine.
There could also be volumes set by mappers such as "don't spawn FP's here, don't spawn scrakes here" to prevent the big units from spawning in places they can't get out of, or it could just be set where only crawlers, gorefasts, bloats, and the basic specimens spawn "dyanmically", while the bigger ones will only spawn from the set spots.
So yeah, I completely agree.
I think the map design doing away with those invisible walls on hallways, and having some dynamic spawning added, and also making zombies not spawn from points on that maps that players are really really far away from would improve it monumentally.
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Left 4 dead has an AI director that dynamically switches spawn points and even if it was under development for a long time I still see hordes spawning in a small room I just went into.
It's not that easy to code, and i don't think that TWI will go through the trouble of creating such a system when in a practical sense there's little to be gained from it.
The best and most practical solution I can think of would be to have several spawn locations fixed on each map.
Zeds would appear from places that for one reason or the other are unreachable to the player but the location of their spawn would be random.
Or maybe they should tend to spawn as far as possible from the survivors depending on their location in the map.
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Yeah because they didn't put a minimum distance on the spawning is a lot of it.. the spawning in the room right next to you in l4d is dumb.
Me and snipe already said that
and i don't like far as possible spawning. Some maps are rather big. And it's kinda boring when they take forever to reach you. Though it wouldn't as much of a problem if they remove the spawn waves being delayed until a group from that wave is killed.
Me and snipe already said that
and i don't like far as possible spawning. Some maps are rather big. And it's kinda boring when they take forever to reach you. Though it wouldn't as much of a problem if they remove the spawn waves being delayed until a group from that wave is killed.
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![[TW]Wilsonam](/data/avatars/s/0/10.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
But what you have to remember is that we have both a Marco AND a Ramm. Not to mention a Xienen and a 'Zekk. Scary what we can do with such a combination
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That sounds like some hint that you're doing something awesome with the spawning over what KF2.5 has.But what you have to remember is that we have both a Marco AND a Ramm. Not to mention a Xienen and a 'Zekk. Scary what we can do with such a combination
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Actually, they did, briefly, on one map. Moderately amusing as they spawn, fall, SPLATThey now come raining down out of the sky. OLOL
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