Well Hoffmann, They must have defeated you once. I dont see 72nd, but i do see 3.SS. If i recall correctly you were in the 3rd SS and so were the majority of the 72nd. 181 Beat them three times and lost only once.
Upvote
0
Squad Kampfgruppe Mitzel
- Thread starter 20.PzGr.Fleck
- Start date
To an extent yes, but the 72.ID and 3.SS were very differnt and consisted of very differnt personnel. The transition from the 3.SS to the 72.ID was quite like the purges of the red army. Very few of the men from the 3.SS were bought into the 72.ID. So that being said I consider the 72.ID as a completely differnt unit and not just a renamed Totenkopf.
Regards
Ernst Hoffmann
P.S. also those loses had occured before I was in a leadership position within the Totenkopf unit so it is not possible for me to take the responsibility for those loses!
Regards
Ernst Hoffmann
P.S. also those loses had occured before I was in a leadership position within the Totenkopf unit so it is not possible for me to take the responsibility for those loses!
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Oh just an update for those units interested in joining (16. FjrK yay!). We FREQUENTLY play--in addition to RO--Silent Hunter III, IL-2 1946, Company of Heroes, and Medieval 2: Total War together.
Upvote
0
wow....you guys are seriously into that catfight stuff...no wonder the "realism" scene is that small and minor...
Upvote
0
And by you posting that you are definetly NOT contributing to any negativity or flaming by any means?
Im sure whatever awsomeness you are a part of is way to big and bad *** for people like me right?
Im sure whatever awsomeness you are a part of is way to big and bad *** for people like me right?
Upvote
0
Lol, it just drives us nuts how Brigadista comes into our threads and spouts about how evil German units are yet he's in ... which Partisan group? 1st Proletariat? -.-
Upvote
0
Partisans aren't inherently evil just by being partisans, nor are the Waffen-SS.
Both parties have their share of war crimes. We know this, we talk about this (hopefully) and we get past it. It would be preferable that people stick to reenacting regular army divisions, but what's the big deal here people?
Both parties have their share of war crimes. We know this, we talk about this (hopefully) and we get past it. It would be preferable that people stick to reenacting regular army divisions, but what's the big deal here people?
Upvote
0
If people would do the research you will find that as a whole (The majority of men fighting, not divisions) the W-SS commited very few war crimes in comparison to regular army units on all fronts and countries that faught. They are absolutly no different in that respect at all. The ONLY difference is that is the armed branch of the Nazi party. I have very little respect for people that ***** about this... The only fair arguement that I can see is the connection between the Nazi party and the W-SS, and how that alone could make them evil.
There is a reason that Waffen-SS is so popular to so many people. It is NOT because of war crimes or its affiliation with the Nazi party. It IS however, because they were the most highly trained and best equiped troops on the battlefield at that time. They forever changed the way wars were faught and how countries trained there militarys. The basic idea of W-SS military theory is taught in every country today. Blah blah blah... I can go on forever and Im sure people who disagree with me could as well, so lets just drop it. (Yes even if I get the last word, because dont forget im the evil German loving ignorant who hates everything)
There is a reason that Waffen-SS is so popular to so many people. It is NOT because of war crimes or its affiliation with the Nazi party. It IS however, because they were the most highly trained and best equiped troops on the battlefield at that time. They forever changed the way wars were faught and how countries trained there militarys. The basic idea of W-SS military theory is taught in every country today. Blah blah blah... I can go on forever and Im sure people who disagree with me could as well, so lets just drop it. (Yes even if I get the last word, because dont forget im the evil German loving ignorant who hates everything)
Upvote
0
iirc, at first the Waffen-SS dident had many good or well trained officers at the beginning. They suffered heavy casultys due to that and due to the notion that they had to "outfight" the wehrmacht.
Upvote
0
Well said. I have no problem debating opinions as long as people can remain intelligent and logical.
The SS suffered appaling loses at all times during the war. With regards to untrained officers, I would challenge you to show me any source that says that. SS officers had a unique relationship with NCOs and Enlisted men. Where as the Heer and all other armies of the day, the officer class was from the upper class and werent always qaulified or good leaders. The SS mad no such destictions and officers were almost always promoted up from the senior NCO staff. Along with that, the officers trained, ate, slept and mingled with there men, which gave a rise to very good trusting relationships between the men and the officer core.
The SS suffered appaling loses at all times during the war. With regards to untrained officers, I would challenge you to show me any source that says that. SS officers had a unique relationship with NCOs and Enlisted men. Where as the Heer and all other armies of the day, the officer class was from the upper class and werent always qaulified or good leaders. The SS mad no such destictions and officers were almost always promoted up from the senior NCO staff. Along with that, the officers trained, ate, slept and mingled with there men, which gave a rise to very good trusting relationships between the men and the officer core.
Upvote
0
Allot of the Waffen SS NCO's and officers did have a very unique relationship with their men and amost of them were very good leaders of men, but and there is a but they suffered heavy casualties especially in the early years because they had a lack of proper academic tactical and strategic knowledge. Not only this but they had no combat experience.
However as time when on and the war progressed they gained experience and this became less of an issue, also after the french campaign allot of officers were sent to Bad Tolz and Braunschweig officer schools. This was true for all of the early SS units LAH, Das Reich, Totenkopf ect. I say this even as one who has portrayed SS units such as Totenkopf and currently portrays the 17.SS in darkest hour because at the end of the day the soldiers of the waffen SS proved themselves fanatical and brave fighters that fact cannot be disputed.
Regards
Ernst Hoffmann
However as time when on and the war progressed they gained experience and this became less of an issue, also after the french campaign allot of officers were sent to Bad Tolz and Braunschweig officer schools. This was true for all of the early SS units LAH, Das Reich, Totenkopf ect. I say this even as one who has portrayed SS units such as Totenkopf and currently portrays the 17.SS in darkest hour because at the end of the day the soldiers of the waffen SS proved themselves fanatical and brave fighters that fact cannot be disputed.
Charles Trang commenting on the Totenkopf division after the french campaign in his book 'Totenkopf'
Regards
Ernst Hoffmann
Last edited:
Upvote
0
The Waffen soldat
The Waffen soldat
The ideals and bravery of the SS man are never to be discounted. So good was there training plan and organization the USMC adopted a lot it. The SS were loyal to each other and the officers. As Hoffman so clearly stated it caused many needless causalities but in the end they were doing it because they were that loyal...
While politically the SS has its blemishes, some divisions never were tried for war crimes as they never commited them. And if history were balanced there would be allies that should have been tried, but the spoils and justice go to the victors and never the vanquished.
enough of that..
In the end, Kampfgruppe 'Mitzel', misspelling and all, is about bringing the Axis side of the community to one vent one forum to share information and to help out in manpower for scrims, and generally to sit around, play games, and discuss lifes many angles.
Schwendau
The Waffen soldat
The ideals and bravery of the SS man are never to be discounted. So good was there training plan and organization the USMC adopted a lot it. The SS were loyal to each other and the officers. As Hoffman so clearly stated it caused many needless causalities but in the end they were doing it because they were that loyal...
While politically the SS has its blemishes, some divisions never were tried for war crimes as they never commited them. And if history were balanced there would be allies that should have been tried, but the spoils and justice go to the victors and never the vanquished.
enough of that..
In the end, Kampfgruppe 'Mitzel', misspelling and all, is about bringing the Axis side of the community to one vent one forum to share information and to help out in manpower for scrims, and generally to sit around, play games, and discuss lifes many angles.
Schwendau
Upvote
0
Zum Erste... bitte entschuldig mir aber ich habe Deutsch nur fuer drei oder vier Jahren (im Uni) studieren und ein Monat bei Familie in Deutschland gelebt.
Ich glaube dieses Diskussion ist ganz bedeutungslos und punktlos. Kampfgruppe Mitzel ist nur einen Klub... nicht ein SS-Fanatiker Drecksloch. Meistens unsere Leuten sind Heer oder Fj (hoeffentlich!).
So... ich habe gesagt was ich muesste...
Bitte, halten Sie dieses Diskussion.
For Schweitzer (auf Englisch): This is incredibly off-topic and will not get us anywhere. Let's end this here. Please make a new topic in a different forum if you wish to continue the discussion.
Ich glaube dieses Diskussion ist ganz bedeutungslos und punktlos. Kampfgruppe Mitzel ist nur einen Klub... nicht ein SS-Fanatiker Drecksloch. Meistens unsere Leuten sind Heer oder Fj (hoeffentlich!
). So... ich habe gesagt was ich muesste...
Bitte, halten Sie dieses Diskussion.
For Schweitzer (auf Englisch
): This is incredibly off-topic and will not get us anywhere. Let's end this here. Please make a new topic in a different forum if you wish to continue the discussion.
Upvote
0
I could agree that the SS suffered heavy losses early in the war due to untrained officer core. However, I do not think that was the case in 42. And by that time the SS had proved thereselves to the Heer and earned there respect many times over. So the notion of needing to outfight the Heer due to the fact that the SS hadnt faught good enough until that point I have a hard time believing.
I cant argue with a book however, I just think maybe its taken alittle out of context? Very interesting point you bring up however.
As far as the qoute, I cant read Deutsch and with my limited translating purposes this is what I got from my kamerad:
It is true that the W-SS had no well-trained officers, therefore the SS-Men became carelessly lost/sacrificed (probably lost though I do not know the connotation). The Waffen SS also, often, futilely rushed forwards (into things?) because they believed the Wehrmacht must have concealed something (fooled someone?
Please PM me if you wish to continue, my kommandstab is getting upset with me.
I cant argue with a book however, I just think maybe its taken alittle out of context? Very interesting point you bring up however.
As far as the qoute, I cant read Deutsch and with my limited translating purposes this is what I got from my kamerad:
It is true that the W-SS had no well-trained officers, therefore the SS-Men became carelessly lost/sacrificed (probably lost though I do not know the connotation). The Waffen SS also, often, futilely rushed forwards (into things?) because they believed the Wehrmacht must have concealed something (fooled someone?
Please PM me if you wish to continue, my kommandstab is getting upset with me.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
That was actually my dirt-crap translation. If you jerks would stop flooding this thread with arguments I wouldn't have to half-heartedly reply while actually trying to do my homework.
Maybe this will make people angry but since I'm the post creator I consider the issue closed. Finish it via PM or another thread. This topic was created to provide information and updates to prospective Kampfgruppe units. Not a place (though all places in these forums seem to degenerate into these) for you all to debate W-SS vs Heer vs Partisans vs Russians.
Maybe this will make people angry but since I'm the post creator I consider the issue closed. Finish it via PM or another thread. This topic was created to provide information and updates to prospective Kampfgruppe units. Not a place (though all places in these forums seem to degenerate into these) for you all to debate W-SS vs Heer vs Partisans vs Russians.
Upvote
0
With Flecks last post in mind I would like to inform the community on the success of KG 'Mitzel' along with elelments of the 12.SS 'HJ' in its last engagement in the theatre of conflict league for Darkest Hour.
Sturmgesch
Sturmgesch
Upvote
0
Zum Erste... bitte entschuldig mir aber ich habe Deutsch nur fuer drei oder vier Jahren (im Uni) studieren und ein Monat bei Familie in Deutschland gelebt.
Ich glaube dieses Diskussion ist ganz bedeutungslos und punktlos. Kampfgruppe Mitzel ist nur einen Klub... nicht ein SS-Fanatiker Drecksloch. Meistens unsere Leuten sind Heer oder Fj (hoeffentlich!
So... ich habe gesagt was ich muesste...
Bitte, halten Sie dieses Diskussion.
For Schweitzer (auf Englisch
I actually understood this without a single aid. My powers are growing. Soon I'll be able to face Lord Vader once and for all.
Upvote
0