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Beta Map RO-Gorlitz Beta 3

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#201
Indeed the Panzershreck (Tank Terror) was an equivalent to the Bazooka used on all fronts by the Allies.

panzerschreck.jpg

The Panzerschreck was first used by the Germans in 1943. The United States claimed that the Germans had copied its design from the U.S. Army's bazooka, which was supplied to the Soviet Red Army in 1942 and had fallen into German hands. In any case, the bazooka certainly stimulated the Germans in their own efforts to design a similar weapon. The Panzerschreck was widely issued to German infantry units and was one of their two main handheld antitank weapons, the other being the Panzerfaust.

This weapon definitely has a place in RO. ;)
 
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#202
more bugs... ;)

more bugs... ;)

More bugs I found:

Some of the stairs are hard to climb, esp. the two staircases on the Bridgehead Square.
The one leading up to the Panzerfaust crate and the one leading to the 2nd storey overview
of the two bridges (BH Square, rights side viewed from the german side).
Same for the central ruins on the 2nd Objective (Intersection).

And there is a way to leave the play area.
Viewed from the russian side just as you approach the bridge leading to the Bridgehead 88 battery to the right.
You can "climb" over the wire blocade and leave the play area.

And I noticed one oddity, when you fire a tank round at a window or door texture
(not an actual window or door!) the round just disapears without exploding.

And to contribute to the discussion about the maps "loadout":
Leave it as it is!
(Giving the russians only one T34 or 2 SU76 is sure worth trying.)
I have seen the gerrys been steamrolled (last obj. caped with 23 min. left) and I have seen
the russian attack stall on the first bridgehead.
It just depends on the teams ability to work together.
Guess what, the team that makes good use of the VOIP usualy wins. :)
 
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#203
It's true that the team makes a big difference, but you've got to look beyond JUST that and figure "If the teams are roughly evenly matched, will the equipment tip the balance one way or the other?"

I think the multiple tanks has the POTENTIAL to tip the balance towards the Russians, but I haven't played it enough to be sure. Tankers are getting smarter on this map, though. They're hanging back more, using HE rounds more, etc. The Panzerfaust has good range to it, but that range has upper limits.

I guess for now, keep an eye on how the tanks are performing and see just how seriously they change the balance. Maybe give it a few more weeks in this version of the beta to see what people are doing. No need to rush to a final version. Alternatively, release a beta 4 with some changes and see how it plays alongside beta 3.
 
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#204
DingBat said:
In my experience, a map is not balanced when everyone agrees it is balanced. A map is balanced when the people complaining their side is getting the short end are roughly equal. :)

It would seem to me that this map is getting very close to that balanced point.
Click to expand...

I'll second this comment.

I saw Russians blitz through, and I've seen the Russians get nowhere. It comes down to more how people play than what tools they have to play with.
If you have good tankers and coordinated Russians, the Germans will lose. If you have coordinated Germans against uncoordinated Russians, the Russians will lose.
 
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#205
Don't give the germans the StuG! (am I saying that? :eek: ) It is much more fun to play without a tank, and the Panzerfausts are really strong (only hard at the bridge's). A Pak40 would be handy at the bridge's because there it is too hard to get them. And the Pak40 is already ingame!

http://files.filefront.com/PAk40wmv/;6931746;/fileinfo.html

A panzerschreck would be cool too.
 
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#207
After a number of rounds yesterday, I definitely think I'm going to try a single t34 in beta 4, with either 2 or 3 dedicated tankers. The panzerfaust availibility would be lowered to accommodate this. As for adding two su76s as was suggested, that would just be too brutal for the germans- those things are long range killing machines, and the he pretty much negates the cover.

If panzershrecks were ever implemented, I would definately add a couple, but I'm less certain about the at guns. With the pretty linear parts of the map, I'm not sure how well they wourld work.

I'm still looking at reducing the carrying limit of the fausts.

Someone mentioned reducing or removing the ucs, what do people think about this? It's nice to have the transport sometimes and they are definately useful for putting down lots of fire, but it's also probably true that infantry would work with the tanks more if there were less of them. It seems a little overkill at some points too, I think I saw the soviets in the train yards with two ucs along with both tanks.
 
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#208
Well its probably more realitic to have no transports in this battle but I think having 1 transport is fine but Im not sure the UC was used for urban fighting like this the Ba-64 however was. The Ba's clowny behavior would be kept in check because of the limited space on the map and by the sheer amount of panzerfausts laying around. It like the tanks would be limited to moving up only when the infantry does.

If its a question of fire superiority then give the Russians more Dp-28s.

I like the mulitple tanks for the russians but it does get to be a bit too much at times. If some of the buildings opened up more (for example a second story) I think that this could work a bit better even without the panzershreck.
 
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#209
TT33 said:
Well its probably more realitic to have no transports in this battle but I think having 1 transport is fine but Im not sure the UC was used for urban fighting like this the Ba-64 however was. The Ba's clowny behavior would be kept in check because of the limited space on the map and by the sheer amount of panzerfausts laying around. It like the tanks would be limited to moving up only when the infantry does.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Agreed the clowny behavior would be mostly negated, but the 360 turret might have a small positive effect. Not as much as the SU tossing around HE, but some cover for the player manning the turret....
 
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#210
What about this, the UC's only at the first spawn so the first attack is easier but it keeps the UC's out of the battle after the first object is taken. A BA64 would be fun to see in this map They can't drive it too fast because of all the rubble and stuff and the 360 turret is interesting. Give it a go imo.

Maybe you can also make something so the germans can only carry ONE panzerfaust? That way they can't get all the UC's coming and it would be harder to take a tank out in one shot (a faust kill is too easy, because they can carry 3 fausts).
 
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#211
FlashPanHunter said:
After a number of rounds yesterday, I definitely think I'm going to try a single t34 in beta 4, with either 2 or 3 dedicated tankers.
Click to expand...
Please, if there is only 1 tank do not give 3 tank roles. This just means 1 player is on the canon having fun, 1 player is on the MG having fun, and 1 very bored driver has nothing else to do but "drive" the tank repeatedly into panzerfaust range getting them all killed. :rolleyes:
Besides, the Allies really can't afford to lose the extra infantry man.
 
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#214
Take out the UCs and give the russians 2 MGers (three would be crazy, no matter how much I would like it), while leaving the germans with only 1.

I do like UCs for transport, but if the spawn zones have been fixed for better running time the lack of UCs shouldnt really matter. The SU does seem rather powerful, but I think it really fills in for an infantry lugged AT gun that could be used for clearing buildings (too bad you cant shoot the gunners though). If there are more enterable buildings in b4 I think you might end up adding it back in.
 
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#216
Sichartshofen said:
Sapers + BA64. We all know what will happen.
Click to expand...

This. I think the ba might incline the sapers to do suicide attacks to clear the barricades, as opposed to the team advancing together to clear them. This seems important because there are a couple of places where the Germans are pretty screwed once the barrier is down.

All this in mind, the plan is to have a single t34 with ucs only at the long objectives. Soviet classes will be changed to give an additional mg, the mn30 to the rifleman, the m44 to the sapper, and the svt to the commander. Germans will stay the same, only with a fewer pfs so as to not overwhelm the t34.

Also, an update, the map is a bit smoother performance-wise and should be much smoother online.
 
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