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Yes, another thread about Sway.. This time with RL video reference

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JayTac

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Aug 29, 2011
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#1
That seems to be the hot topic right now. A lot of players are complaining that there's not enough gun sway, particularly after running a long distance. Personally, I think that sort of sway is something we've become accustomed to from previous games. But, is it realistic?

"Sledgehammer" RunNGun Intro Pt 2: Nutnfancy Testing Drill - YouTube

You be the judge. After watching that vid, does the game have it right or wrong? IMO, it would be nice if breathe control wasn't automatic, that would slow things down a bit and also add a bit more realism and interaction.
 
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#2
Great video. Nicely illustrates the whole argument.

Now, to be fair, those are professional shooters whereas the Stalingrad soldiers were a mix, but as you can see pulling off shots within 100y is fairly easy, even out of breath, and it's more than possible to pull off deadly accurate 200y shots even after a hard sprint.

In other words, I'd say TWI has the sway right on the money. It's not enough to mess with your close quarters shots, but enough to screw with your long-range. Bravo, I say.
 
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#4
My deal with this arguement is that my in-game character is so tired he feels the need to say, Let me catch my breath, or Im useless like this. Either he needs to stop *****ing or his breathing should be effected more.

Again, I think everyone is too focused on the realism arguement, there are some things that were sacrificed in RO2 for the sake of gameplay>realism. So the same could be said about our characters having the physical conditioning of modern special forces.
 
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#6
FBOTheLiuetenant said:
My deal with this arguement is that my in-game character is so tired he feels the need to say, Let me catch my breath, or Im useless like this. Either he needs to stop *****ing or his breathing should be effected more.

Again, I think everyone is too focused on the realism arguement, there are some things that were sacrificed in RO2 for the sake of gameplay>realism. So the same could be said about our characters having the physical conditioning of modern special forces.
Click to expand...

So basically, no matter what is brought to the table to prove otherwise, we need more sway?

I really can't argue with that logic. As long as this change doesn't make it to any mode with the word realism around it, I'm game. We could call it Ostfront mode.

-Paas
 
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#7
Meh, Nutnfancy.

Dude plays soldier while his real military job had more to do with pushing papers than hostiles.

Take his stuff with a big fat grain of salt. Can't really argue with the guys he films though.

Not saying I am opposed to the state of sway in RO2, either. I actually think it works great as is.
 
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#8
Im not saying more sway all the time, just when he is exhausted. If the rest of the mechanics, mocing slower and yelling about how exhausted he is are any indication he is really out of breath.

What did this prove otherwise? There are things in RO2 that go against reality for the sake of gameplay, and I didnt say that my suggestion was based on reality so there really isn't anything to disprove it.
 
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#10
You would be suprized what effect good training can have on a person when under pressure; in fact good training some times works best in a high stress enviroment. Just like in all those movies that seem cleche, just befor they go into the fight the sarget inevatably tells his men to fall back on thier training when the **** hits the fan and every thing will turn out ok. There is a reason they say that, it is true. It works for more than just millitary too, self defence and even advanced martial arts diciplines work off he same mechinisum, ask anyone that has trained for a while, alot of it hapens without thinking.
 
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#11
luciferintears said:
honestly i find the whole breath control system a bit ridiculous.

I highly doubt most infantry in ww2, when under fire and in such a frantic situation, would sit there and try to control their breathing.

i mean unless your some sort of sniper or marksman, then maybe but otherwise i'm calling BS
Click to expand...

No one could really say for sure unless they found training documentation from that era that specified otherwise.

I know almost every modern military rifleman is taught to fire between breaths (where accuracy is paramount), and delay breathing cycles. You're at your most stable point when you're completely supported my bone structure and your muscles are fully relaxed. The problem with delaying breathing cycles is your muscles are going to become oxygen starved and you will begin to twitch. It's not a twitch you can really control either. It's really your body fighting to survive, you're telling it not to breath, it's saying, "Hey jack-hole! I need air!".

Honestly though, considering most marksmanship practices have been just refinements of the basics from previous generations, I can't imagine a trained military simply skipped such a basic tool in marksmanship. This is all speculation of course, as I don't have any training docks for 40's era Russian or German infantry.

-Paas
 
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#12
Audemed said:
Well, are you seeing the pauses he's taking after each run? Those targets are also not that far off, he has a 4x magnification on his red dot, it's an assault rifle, which is easier to handle, AND half of his shots were from a rested position.

Standing sway needs an increase. Standing + leaning needs a large increase.
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^ This, and add to the fact that these guys have done this alot, but the guys we START as in RO2 is supposedly rookies...

i can see this kind of performance from someone whos reached veteran status, but not the rookies.

also, like they said in the video, practice makes perfect, and these guys have done this run more than once :/
 
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#13
Oddball_E8 said:
^ This, and add to the fact that these guys have done this alot, but the guys we START as in RO2 is supposedly rookies...

i can see this kind of performance from someone whos reached veteran status, but not the rookies.

also, like they said in the video, practice makes perfect, and these guys have done this run more than once :/
Click to expand...

That is a respectable point, and I agree to an extent, but again, hitting a target from 50m isn't that hard, even for untrained recruits. With the bullet speed being what it is, the lack of drop, and very little need to lead a target, it doesn't take a marksman (or even a very steady hand) to put a bullet into a moving target.

And remember, real soldiers don't go for headshots. Center mass, all the way.
 
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#15
I think the whole "sway" argument is stupid, personally. The sway is nearly perfect.

Weapon sway isn't nearly as powerful as games like to portray it. Even when you're running for a good 20 yards, come to a stop, and pull up your weapon, it won't be going back and forth like a pendulum. Heavy breathing does not affect how you support your weapon.

It's as if this argument was started by somebody who has never fired a weapon before.
 
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#17
Paas said:
No one could really say for sure unless they found training documentation from that era that specified otherwise.

I know almost every modern military rifleman is taught to fire between breaths (where accuracy is paramount), and delay breathing cycles. You're at your most stable point when you're completely supported my bone structure and your muscles are fully relaxed. The problem with delaying breathing cycles is your muscles are going to become oxygen starved and you will begin to twitch. It's not a twitch you can really control either. It's really your body fighting to survive, you're telling it not to breath, it's saying, "Hey jack-hole! I need air!".

Honestly though, considering most marksmanship practices have been just refinements of the basics from previous generations, I can't imagine a trained military simply skipped such a basic tool in marksmanship. This is all speculation of course, as I don't have any training docks for 40's era Russian or German infantry.

-Paas
Click to expand...

i'm sure they were trained to do it, but whether or not they did is another question.

shooting paper at the firing range is much more diferent than shooting a live target in a battlefield situation.

considering your heart is beating 5000 beats per minute, youre exhausted, and 4 rifle rounds just snapped right next to your ear; im not too sure controlled breathing is something that will come naturally
 
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#18
It dosen't take much practise to get decently accurate with an accurate weapon. US Army rifle training is only about 2 weeks and in that time a person that has never shot a round in their whole life, let alone touched a rifle, can hit any target, human sized and shaped, they want from 1m-300m every time they pull the triger. Now that is an extreem caise of course, a score of around 50% is the minimum but most do better.

As for all the sway and cary on that people go on about; these weaponst wigh in at about 8-10lbs, that's about 3-5kg for you metric types. being held in two hands and as short as these weapons are do you realy think they would be that hard to keep still? It realy isn't.
 
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#19
JayTac said:
That seems to be the hot topic right now. A lot of players are complaining that there's not enough gun sway, particularly after running a long distance. Personally, I think that sort of sway is something we've become accustomed to from previous games. But, is it realistic?

"Sledgehammer" RunNGun Intro Pt 2: Nutnfancy Testing Drill - YouTube

You be the judge. After watching that vid, does the game have it right or wrong? IMO, it would be nice if breathe control wasn't automatic, that would slow things down a bit and also add a bit more realism and interaction.
Click to expand...


Depends on how long you're running, combat situation and how well trained you are. We had to do 2,5-5km runs with full gear then get on the range and shoot somtimes , now that wasn't easy lol..

I think the standing sway could be increase a bit in Ro2(simply to make a difference between stances), but otherwise i'm fine with it.
 
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