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Classic to replace all other modes

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  • #31
    The people who enjoy the relaxed realism mode have the same right to play and enjoy their favourite gamemode as the people who enjoy classic mode.

    You should be glad that TW is a Company who takes the effort to change their game. Other companies would have given up months ago, collected their money and would release another rehash update game one year later.
    [CENTER][B]

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Coopsta View Post
      EDIT: And for the record, I personally disagree with the proposed "Action Mode" unless possibly if it replaces relaxed realism.
      Action mode will replace the Relaxed Realism mode.

      But, the Realism mode may be modified to be closer to what the current Relaxed Realism mode is like now (by server admins) so people who like the Relaxed Realism mode now shouldn't be left out.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Holy.Death View Post
        Take a closer look on those reviews - their overall number, how many are positive and negative. Then take a look on exact scores given by the players: they're heavily polarised and people seem to either like it or hate it (0, 2 vs 8, 10 is a good example). In the end opinion is mixed; one player might like it, the other won't and it's up to individual taste. You need also to remember that reviews are very subjective - who is more right, a man who gave the game 0 or 10? Whom should you listen to? Who is more objective? In the end it's up to you to decide.
        It's not about who is right or wrong, of course. My point was not to tell the reason behind the score. Point to stress is, that the general score for RO2 - from both the players point of view, and the critics point of view, have drastically dropped. Reviews from critics and users plays an important role when it comes to marketing. Its less likely that people will buy the game if they see the overall score. Its also less likely that the people who have this opinion will be interested in future products from TWI.

        TWIs effort to make the game more accessible did not work out which can be understood by reading the reviews and opinion about the game and looking the the huge player dro since release. On the other hand, by far the most inaccessible game out there, arma, got a higher score both from critics and players - even despite the fact that it is a buggy mess. I don't think this is a coninsidence. I believe its just the effect that may come when you focus to make one audience happy. The same pattern was seen with Codemasters OFP series.



        Originally posted by Coopsta View Post
        Oh Cyper this is rich. What happened to this sentiment? From this post

        EDIT: And for the record, I personally disagree with the proposed "Action Mode" unless possibly if it replaces relaxed realism.
        I still agree with that statement.

        The more modes you have the more it will split the community. I do believe Classic Mode does not qualify into that category though. First off, I did not get what I expected or wanted from RO2, and now its very obvious that a lot of people feel the same. Without speaking of right or wrong, the changes TWI did with the Red Orchestra franchise caused major fractions within the community. RO Classic isn't something that popped up from the thin air. It is the community who is the driving force behind it. This mode, if any mode, will not fragment the community further simply because it was the community's own wish. Action Mode, Relaxed Realism, Realism mode - these mode were never requested neither from the community or the mainstream. All the bullpoo that accessibility includes, were not the communities wish, it was a try from TWI to attract a new audience on the expense of the niche audience and they did succeed with that - in short term;; 10,000 active MP players at release is not a bad number.
        ''Much good work is lost for the lack of a little more.''
        - Edward H. Harriman

        Originally posted by Rabid Penguin
        I would rather blowtorch my nipples off than play Action Mode.

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        • #34
          Bit of a carry-on over nothing here. Play the beta, give feedback on what you like, when it goes into production find a server you and your friends like and have fun.

          That is all.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Cyper View Post
            The thought crossed my mind while reading another thread. I realize this whole idea may seem very far removed, and maybe even unrealistic, but I would still like to hear other peoples opinion about it. I am not creating this thread with the thought that I would persuade the majority but rather to make people absorb and reflect about this idea. So there is no need for anyone to get bleedy about it.

            The reason why this idea crossed my mind in the first place was because of action mode. I believe all different modes creates fractions within the community, and I believe the more modes you have, the more fractions you get and there is indeed many modes in this game. The question is whenever they're usefull for the game or not. How many people play Relaxed Realism? How many people will play Action Mode? Realism Mode? How many will play Classic? And who does all this modes aim at? One thing is for sure: each mode steals players from the other. Simplicity would ultimately be only to have one mode - that is RO CLASSIC - but not called Ro Classic. Not called anything at all. Just multiplayer and that's it. Sometimes Red Orchestra is just red orchestra; not action, not relaxed, not realistic, not classic.
            Countdown, FireFight and Territory all steal players from one another too, but it's tolerated.

            I seriously can not understand how you could even create such a thread coming from the position you have been in since the beginning of RO2's launch. But before I get into that, I'll answer a couple of your above questions:

            I play both Relaxed Realism and Realism (As they Are)

            I have zero interest in RO Classic, and I certainly am not fond of the idea of this Action Mode replacing Relaxed Realism..... and if/when that does happen, I won't be playing that anymore than I will be playing RO Classic, which will be never, as I will purposely avoid both.

            Now back to the point I was going to make above:

            From the very beginning, you have been going on and on and on about having an RO Classic game mode or something similar, and you basically refused to play the game until there was something like that in the game.

            I didn't like the idea, or most of your ideas towards back tracking to RO1 game play as I didn't like 95% of the game play in RO1. Like you are with RO2, I was much the same with RO1..... the difference is that I didn't go on a crusade to revamp the entire game's structure to suit my interests.

            Then when TW decided to work on this RO Classic to please you and your group of players (or anti-players), I said good.... I wished you all luck in that this game mode would suit your needs and it would be something you would enjoy, even though I knew it would further splinter the community and available servers that I can play on (with the game modes I like)

            Now that you have what you want....... you're still not satisfied and want to keep going further to step on everybody else's toes and suggest that TW go and scrap everything else and force everybody to play RO Classic Game Mode as if all of us even wanted to in the first damn place.

            You know what that's going to do?

            Nothing.... Nothing in that it's just going to reverse the situation and make it that you and your little group of buddies will be playing all the time and the rest of us who were already happy with the game as it was, decide to leave and stop playing because what we actually liked is now Gone.

            And that makes sense to you, how?

            Because having Action Mode, Realism Mode and RO Classic (+ CD, FF & TE) all split the community and create factions of players?

            Well if that's the case, maybe TW should have never even bothered with RO Classic or Action Modes in the first place and left things well enough alone as they were.

            But they didn't..... they decided to cater to your demands and the demands of those wanting this Action Mode..... further reducing the available servers I had to play on that used Relaxed Realism and Realism Game Modes...... the servers I had to choose from are not just going to be cut by 1/3 because of RO Classic, but by 2/3's because of this Action Mode Idea.

            And if you had your way, you'd have everybody be forced to play RO Classic, whether we wanted to or not..... cutting my available servers right down to Zero.

            This all came to you because of Action Mode and you're worried that it will split the community more than it already is?

            How come you didn't come to this epiphany when TW announced RO Classic??

            Oh that's right.... because you finally were getting what you wanted and now you're further exposing your own selfish character even more. You didn't care about what others liked in the game and continually fought and demanded to have the game mode you wanted, regardless of what it would do towards splitting the community..... then you got that and instead of being satisfied with what you got, you now decide to suggest that everybody should be forced to play what you've been crying for since the start..... blaming any divisions in the player base on this Action Mode, while not even acknowledging that your precious RO Classic does the exact same thing.

            Actually RO Classic is worse..... Action Mode is just replacing one existing game mode, which means it doesn't further split the community.... yet RO Classic is an additional game mode and does directly split the community further.

            So instead of two game modes, we now have three. Instead of having two similar game modes and one very different game mode, we now will have three distinct game modes.

            I've come to terms with the fact that we're going to have both this RO Classic game mode and this Action Game mode, even though I am still greatly concerned that I won't have many servers to choose from with the game mode I enjoy (Realism)...... but you?

            You want to toss everything out the window and suggest everybody should just be stuck to playing one game mode and that's it...... The Game Mode YOU like.

            Me thinks not.

            What is it with you anyways?

            Back before they announced RO Classic, you were trying to fight for them to scrap the entire game system RO2 had to suit your demands and your tastes for RO1..... I even tried to meet you halfway and suggest that if you want something like that, it should be in an additional game mode so that the rest of us can keep playing what we want.

            Now TW did that and it's still not good enough for you, in that here you are still trying to fight to force everybody to play what you want them to play.

            Guess what?

            Not all of us like your ideas.... Not all of us like RO Classic..... Not all of us want to be bound into playing what you want us to play, so give it up already.

            You asked for our opinion..... you got it.

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            • #36
              ^^^^
              +1

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              • #37
                It just got a whole lot warmer in here! *pulls collar*

                Player fragmentation is just going to be a fact of RO2's life from now on IMHO and it can't be consolidated without some noses getting knocked out of joint (most temporarily, some permanently).

                One year from now I confidently predict that the only RO2 modes you'll see with people playing will be ROC and Realism.
                [B][COLOR="White"]defekt[/COLOR][/B]

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                • #38
                  Just started Realism again, so DEFINITELY not.

                  Realism seems all more realistic than classic IMO. Classic limits you in almost every way. Realism is fast, but war was and still is very fast. I don't mind playing Classic, but for it to be the only mode is not a good idea.
                  [URL=http://steamcommunity.com/id/playa174/][IMG]http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198000238962.png[/IMG][/URL]

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cyper
                    TWIs effort to make the game more accessible did not work out which can be understood by reading the reviews and opinion about the game and looking the the huge player dro since release. On the other hand, by far the most inaccessible game out there, arma, got a higher score both from critics and players - even despite the fact that it is a buggy mess. I don't think this is a coninsidence. I believe its just the effect that may come when you focus to make one audience happy. The same pattern was seen with Codemasters OFP series.
                    It's not that simple.

                    Yes, you can make one audience happy and make review score high because review will be written by people playing the game. People who will buy, play and review hardcore titles are few (when you compare them with other player bases), so they'll be mostly written by enthusiasts and keep the score up. Such high score is, in a way, fake. Because when reviews are written by the people who like the game then they tend to give it higher notes than the other people. The other people who won't play hardcore games.

                    With RO2 situation is different; note that positive reviews are not highly different from ARMA 2. What's different is number of negative opinions - game itself isn't bad (is at least as good as ARMA 2), but polarize people much more, because it has created a schizm within the player base. That is (was?) the main problem of the game, the forums and the score. People didn't really focus to evaluate RO2 - some liked it, some rejected it outright for not being true to their image of RO. This means that score is biased as is not basing on objective notes but on subjective opinions on each reviewer.

                    I stopped paying attention to critic reviews and pay little attention to users reviews for this extact reason. Because both aren't worth anything in the end when people can't be just. What matters is you and your own opinion as it's something you can trust.

                    That's why I ask people around what they think and pay attention to those who give both pros and cons; they seem to be more objective and can give me an overview of the game. I can't agree that score on metacritic is proof of anything really. Look at our friend Poerisija who managed to give the game 0 when he gave it 10 on the release. It says something about him and about the value of such places where everyone can review everything.

                    You make it all sound simple, that TWI should stick only to their niche like BIS, but it's more complicated. TWI made a good game, but it was buggy, lacked many features, wasn't fulfilling hopes of the Old Guard (now they can be, with Classic mode) and so on. Not optimistic condition of the multiplayer (number of players) in comparison to other games is the result of many combined factors. Not just a single fact you point out.

                    Keep that in mind.

                    P.S. How many people even care to write down a review of the game they play in? I for sure don't. I either play or not.
                    Last edited by Holy.Death; 04-30-2012, 09:37 AM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Cpt-Praxius View Post
                      ----- snip -----

                      Guess what?

                      Not all of us like your ideas.... Not all of us like RO Classic..... Not all of us want to be bound into playing what you want us to play, so give it up already.

                      You asked for our opinion..... you got it.
                      I agree....

                      Cyper;
                      Get the idea?? Its an "off the wall concept!"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        While I'm all about TWI trying to please their customers, at this point I really wish they would have just focused on the game they released back in September, fixed the issues and released content. This includes really getting the SDK in top notch condition.

                        I can understand wanting to please a fan base that wasn't satisfied with the game (ala' Classic Mode) but if the SDK was ironed out I don't doubt that the community who wanted a Classic Mode would have probably made it. Those are some dedicated dudes.

                        Right now it feels like TWI is trying to please everyone and ultimately alienating people. If you're going to do different game modes for different styles of play, just go Relaxed and Realism. Make relaxed as accessible as possible and make realism as hardcore as possible.

                        I like some of the aspects of Classic and I applaud TWI for wanting to please their fans, but I do feel sometimes you need to stay with your focus whether that pleases everyone or not. To me (not a Rooster) Classic feels, overall, a step backwards.

                        As for Classic being the only mode, I'll go with no.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Some players who didn't play RO1 may see Classic as 'broken', and some players who expected HOS to be a repeat of RO1 see realism as 'broken' and heretical.
                          3 modes are designed to try to please as many people as possible. It gives people more choices, and choice is always good.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Classic should have been the only game mode to start. The community would either train the CoD'ers, or they would have self-deported.

                            This community is hugely splintered. It needs to rally around one version of the game, that is as faithful to OST as possible.
                            monster

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Holy.Death View Post
                              It's not that simple.

                              Yes, you can make one audience happy and make review score high because review will be written by people playing the game. People who will buy, play and review hardcore titles are few (when you compare them with other player bases), so they'll be mostly written by enthusiasts and keep the score up. Such high score is, in a way, fake. Because when reviews are written by the people who like the game then they tend to give it higher notes than the other people. The other people who won't play hardcore games.
                              And who here actually buys a game, let alone enjoys a game, based on what some random internet game reviewer scores it?

                              I don't and I couldn't care less if they rated RO2 a perfect 10 or a -5.... what matters to me is if I enjoy the game and continue to play it because I enjoy it.

                              If some random button pushing internet reviewer doesn't like the game, I couldn't give a rat's arse..... and if post online my view of a game and whether or not I like it, I never once expect anybody to blindly follow my opinion and determine to buy/play that game based on my own view.

                              Just because I like or dislike a specific game, that doesn't mean everybody shares my view.

                              Originally posted by mowskwoz View Post
                              While I'm all about TWI trying to please their customers, at this point I really wish they would have just focused on the game they released back in September, fixed the issues and released content. This includes really getting the SDK in top notch condition.
                              Exactly my position and my view..... I enjoyed the game that was released, despite the bugs and performance issues. Once all that was fixed up, I was more than ready to have new content added into the game, as the game was fine as it was.

                              If more content started to come out earlier, chances are the end result would have been more players staying on to play and more players who left, would start to come back, because the content that should have been in at the start would have started to make its way back in sooner.

                              Now while they work on RO Classic and this Action Mode, they may bring in that group of players who wanted those things, but those who've stuck around and enjoyed the game as it was, now risk leaving due to over playing the same limited content and no known dates of when new stuff will make its way into the game..... ie: boredom.

                              It's understandable that it's a tricky situation for TW to determine which way they should go in order to keep players and gain more, as whatever path they decide to take, they risk losing other players.

                              If they work on RO Classic and Action Modes the whole time, they risk losing their current player base that has stuck around, with the hope the other group of players comes back when these two modes go live.

                              However, if they didn't work on this Action Mode and RO Classic & kept working on new content and variety for the game, they wouldn't have lost anybody in their current player base.... and they couldn't lose the Action/RO Classic players, cuz they weren't playing in the first place, and with working on new content, they stood a greater chance of bringing in new players and the players who left because they were missing the things they wanted in the game.

                              Just my thoughts.....

                              ....To me (not a Rooster) Classic feels, overall, a step backwards......
                              Agreed.

                              Originally posted by >< f4ct0r...13 View Post
                              Classic should have been the only game mode to start. The community would either train the CoD'ers, or they would have self-deported.

                              This community is hugely splintered. It needs to rally around one version of the game, that is as faithful to OST as possible.
                              I've played the Mod, RO1 and of course, RO2.... I don't like CoD in the slightest (I didn't even care for the original CoD)..... yet I don't like RO1's game play compared to the Mod or RO2, yet I do enjoy Relaxed Realism and Realism as they are.

                              I wouldn't need some RO'Ost Fans to "Train" me as some "CoD'er" because #1 - I'm not a CoD'er and #2 - I already know how to play RO1.... I simply didn't like RO1's gameplay.

                              And it's that narrow view you have (as well as Cyper's) that screws up your logic & argument.

                              Basically you're saying that if you don't like RO Classic or RO1, then you're some CoD fan and don't know how to play RO.... sorry, it doesn't work that way.

                              The players should have rallied around one game mode and that should have been RO2's Realism Mode.... all this crap about being faithful to how RO:Ostfront was is indeed.... crap..... as RO:Ostfront wasn't the original Red Orchestra for all RO's to adhere to in the first place.
                              Last edited by Cpt-Praxius; 05-01-2012, 12:39 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by >< f4ct0r...13 View Post
                                Classic should have been the only game mode to start. The community would either train the CoD'ers, or they would have self-deported.

                                This community is hugely splintered. It needs to rally around one version of the game, that is as faithful to OST as possible.
                                Classic is too faithful, and that's my problem with it. It's essentially RO1 with better graphics, smoother movement, and less authenticity weapon-wise (G41/ZF4...). I didn't want RO1 with better graphics, I wanted RO1 with improvements. RO2's realism mode would easily deliver that if some tweaks were made there, rather than making a whole new gametype and going out of their way to make it like RO1.

                                I was excited about Classic the first time I played it because it felt like RO1. People were moving as squads and covering each other. With subsequent patches, though, it's rapidly losing its appeal for me. The latest version's sprinting is broken as all hell and suppression isn't much better off, for instance.
                                [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/b7AQQ.jpg[/IMG]
                                Current name ingame - [COLOR=LightBlue][B]killallmkb42s.exe[/B][/COLOR]

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