Zoom ?

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Narego

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 5, 2011
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Yes i know there atleast 5 topics about zooming, but none of those didnt give me the answer / missed my point and they are also a bit "outdated".

YouTube - Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalingrad [Part III]
Jump to 1:33, is there really going to be zoom like that? If you ask me its not very realistic... and quess i need again new extra button.. having trouble with binds already :p
 

CAKELIE

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 30, 2010
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I have mixed feelings about this.
I play ArmA 2, which has this feature.
I like it, because I am able to "focus" on an object without having to aim down my sights, but as you said it's somewhat unrealistic.
Not sure if we really will be able to, though.
Anyone know if this will be implemented?:confused:
 

Floyd

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 19, 2006
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www.ro50pc.net
From: [URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=482085&postcount=228[/URL]
3) FOV Zoom - those of you that have been around long enough know that I was VERY against having any type of FOV zoom in Red Orchestra. There have been some very heated discussions between myself and people in the community, and even between me and other members of the dev team. As hard as people tried, they could never make a compelling argument for FOV Zoom being realistic, since all their arguments were based on personal interpretation (i.e. when I look at something it gets more in "focus") rather than factual evidence.

When doing research for ROHOS, we decided to do a scientific investigation into how the human eye works, and how large objects would need to appear on screen to be the same size as they would be in real life. We used as a baseline a 19" monitor (standard aspect ratio) and a 21" monitor (widescreen aspect ratio). We went out to a football field and measured with a pair of calipers placed a standard distance from a persons eye how large a person appeared to be at different distances (out to 100 meters). To sum up our findings, to appear to be "real life size" on the player's screen, you have to decrease the FOV (zoom in) a little over 2x. In other words, in RO:Ost, somone 100 meters away in game appears 2x smaller than they would in real life, thus making it much HARDER than real life to shoot them. This lead to what many refer to as "pixel hunting". Now in ROHOS, with the FOV zoom when using controlled breathing objects in the world appear their real life size. This not only has made the game more realistic, it has also both made the game easier, and made long range firefights a lot more fun and practical.

So in conclusion, I was the biggest hater of FOV zoom going into our research, but the facts proved me wrong.

What is your question? Will it require an extra button? If I recall correctly, its explained somewhere. I think in one of the first videos....Someone will put up a link, I'm sure.

I'm not worried about extra keys. RO1 was pretty simple. Even I didn't have any trouble with it and I'm an old dog. Besides, if Ramm can manage, then certainly most of everyone can :p
 
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kenijaru

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 17, 2009
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i remember reading somewhere that they added that to make aiming more realistic, currently on RO:OST people look smaller than they actually should, because of the rather "wide" FOV. A reduction in the FOV gives a "zoom effect" that makes everything look closer to real life sizes.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
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Falmouth UK
There is zoom in the game.

The most popular monitor size on steam is 20-22 inch these days with a 1680x1050 resolution. http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

So say 22 inch is the size of said monitor. This is the diagonal width of a monitor with a 1680x1050 resolution or a 16:10 aspect ratio. Which is equal to a 18.6 inch width.

18.6 inch is equal to 0.47 meter. A user on average sits about half a meter or so from his screen.

edea129387ccaa1e13b683d5aa742736.jpg


Filling in the above formula gives you that Alpha is around 25 degrees, meaning that your computer screen takes about 50 degrees of your vision.

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In order to make characters appear at the right size as they would be in real life you would then need to run the game at a 50 degree fov. Since such a fov gives you serious tunnel vision and lacks the near 180 degree fov you have in real live, most games use for instance a fov of 90 (everything appears about 2 times as small as in reality but you can see a bit wider).

TWI decided to by default use a fov of 85, with some additional fov indicator at the side of the screen to simulate the 180 degree fov. And optionally by pressing the breathing key they give you a fov of around 50 so you can see a person as big as they are in reality on your screen. Allowing people to kill at realistic ranges.

So the fundamental basis for choosing it is not unrealistic
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However there are negative aspects as well to using this.

Due to having one real life size (zoomed) version of sight, and a wider peripheral version of sight. You often need to switch between both modes to get a full picture. This means you get a lot of transitioning between a zoomed and unzoomed which can for some people kill their immersion.

And as everything appears about twice as small in your peripheral vision it ends up that you can not spot distant enemies with your peripheral view, which in my opinion makes your peripheral vision pretty useless unless you are in close quarters combat (my experience from arma). As enemies are double as big in zoomed mode they use 4 times as many pixels making them generally 4 times easier to spot, so to spot enemies it forces you to use your "focussed" vision.

Next to that the system seems to use a set fov for the zoom factor (according to the bash and slash irc questions) , so if you sit twice as far from your monitor as an average person, everything will appear twice as small as it would in real life. And of course not everybody uses a 22 inch monitor either as people have monitors from 14 inch laptop screens to 50 inch tv screens or multi monitor setups.

Which is why I personally hope that within bounds set by twi, players can slightly adjust the fov for the peripheral view, normal ironsight view and the zoomed in view. So users can make the 1:1 zoom work on their home setups.

Something else that could work next to that is rather than basing the bounds of modifying the zoom factors based on an average size of a monitor, basing it on an average dpi resolution of monitors. And then using the actual in game resolution to create an estimation of the monitor size. I made a post about that here. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=35969&highlight=arctan
 
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CAKELIE

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 30, 2010
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About the key bindings, I'd just like to have it where if you click the RMB you aim, and if you click and HOLD the RMB you "focus" your eyes.
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
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Nargothrond
About the key bindings, I'd just like to have it where if you click the RMB you aim, and if you click and HOLD the RMB you "focus" your eyes.

I feel bad for Zets to type all that out, when the OP just wanted to know about keybinds.
 

Narego

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 5, 2011
31
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I feel bad for Zets to type all that out, when the OP just wanted to know about keybinds.

Nononono, he told me what i wanted to hear (if there is zoom or not) I was just cursing that i need to make new bind again.. i havent found good mix of binds, since im used to have ironsight in m2 and melee on f or shift.

Sorry if my thread was missleading,:rolleyes:

#EDIT#
Kinda pissed how they added zoom :I I remember their gamepreview video where they say they dont want to player feel himself like terminator or something like that... well this zoom always will remind me of terminator now O_O
 
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Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
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Nargothrond
Would be nice if a single click toggles the regular zoom, and a quick double click toggles breath control / extra zoom.
 

RobfromEssex

FNG / Fresh Meat
I had in my head, one click to bring up normal iron sights and again click once to return to hip, as well as being able to click once for iron sights then double click to get iron sights with extra zoom then another one click to return to hip.


So for discussions sake say you are in extra zoom and you want to return to normal iron sights you would have to double click

You should always be able to get back to hip in one click whether your in normal iron sights or iron sights with extra zoom in case you need to get back to hip as fast as possible.

Sounds complicated but I don't think it would take any getting used to.

Just expanding on Mormegil's great concept^^

Edit: The only problem I have just thought of is when your in iron sights and you double click to get extra zoom the first click would bring you back to hip hmmm back to the drawing board lol.
 
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Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
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Edit: The only problem I have just thought of is when your in iron sights and you double click to get extra zoom the first click would bring you back to hip hmmm back to the drawing board lol.

I know in Windows, you can set the double-click speed sensitivity.

So if you double-click, it won't register the first click as a single click.

This is getting crazy, I already have a 5 button mouse, with 4 being used (VoIP, fire, IS, and melee). Guess there's room for one more.
 

Fedorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2005
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IMO, zoom/breathing and ironsights, should be in different buttons, and zoom/breathing should be toggleable I mean, I don't want to hold a button while I fire with another one... and did I mention my carpal tunnel syndrome? oh yes, 6 times I think.
 

Frostedfire

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2010
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IMO, zoom/breathing and ironsights, should be in different buttons, and zoom/breathing should be toggleable I mean, I don't want to hold a button while I fire with another one... and did I mention my carpal tunnel syndrome? oh yes, 6 times I think.

or the best one of the lot, zooming in 2x when you pull out your tt33 so you can shoot off individual pockmarks on the schneidzekk clones :troll:
 

Amerikaner

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2005
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#EDIT#
Kinda pissed how they added zoom :I I remember their gamepreview video where they say they dont want to player feel himself like terminator or something like that... well this zoom always will remind me of terminator now O_O

Well would you rather have a harder time seeing enemies than real life or having to push an extra key sometimes? Considering RO1 was very fluid, one key should not make a major difference. It does seem odd that you have built in human eye zoom in a WW2 shooter but in the end it makes more sense having it than not.
 

Narego

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 5, 2011
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Well would you rather have a harder time seeing enemies than real life or having to push an extra key sometimes? Considering RO1 was very fluid, one key should not make a major difference. It does seem odd that you have built in human eye zoom in a WW2 shooter but in the end it makes more sense having it than not.

The one extra key/bind isnt the problem... The problem for me is that now you have ZOOM in this game :mad:. As someone said earlier now the game will go around zooming in and zooming out all the time and that might ruin it.... hope atleast there is option to turn this zoom off :eek:
 

tofupunk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 2, 2010
457
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Sweden
I like the arma zoom system, another button would feel a bit unnatural. However, being able to choose is great.
 
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Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
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Nargothrond
How about mouse wheel rolling? I personally use the number keys to switch weapons, not the mouse wheel. This would let you quickly scroll through all the zooms, including IS and scoped view if you have a scoped rifle. That would free up my RMB too.