You've got the concept of powerleveling backwards. How a lower level powerlevels...
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Tactics You wanna be a better player? I'll tell you how...
- Thread starter nutterbutter
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You've got the concept of powerleveling backwards. How a lower level powerlevels...
The reasons you're arguing against low levels in HoE are incorrect. You're saying with the damage bonuses they lack and since they increase specimen number/health, and since they have no trader discounts or starting weapon, they're ineffective, completely useless, and you shouldn't help them out with money or heals so they leave when they die after you've ensured their ineffectiveness.
Those facts may be true but you're wrong about them being the reason low levels can be useless in HoE.
They're useless for the same reason there are useless level 6's. Because they suck. At aiming, at specimen prioritizing, where to be, what to shoot and what not to shoot. This is what people complain about when that 'level 2 noob' joins and ruins their game. This is why this guide exists. It's never 'oh if that guy had 50% shotgun damage increase instead of 40% we would have been just fine and dandy'
The only thing the level 0-4 might be an indicator of is inexperience. That is the real killer. That is why they don't know what doors to weld, not to rage the fleshpound, join as level 1 demo instead of their level 1 sharp on wave 2, when and where to run, don't know map layout, or stand just a little too far forward etc etc.
As someone who's just started leveling a new account exclusively on HoE (and occasionally sui) servers, I can assure you that a low level can easily carry a full team of level 6's through a HoE game, and even the pat fight, and most of the time I'm not pulling miraculous clutches or anything like that. I'm just camping/kiting with the team like I would as a level 6. This, if anything, shows that it's not the perk bonuses that make the player.
If you want proof, just ask for it. I'll record my next few games and post a link to a myriad of screenshots, or whatever, the point I'm trying to make is that it's people who suck that are ruining your game not their perk level - the perk level bonuses don't matter enough to be the direct cause of wipes.
People complain about low levels because they don't know what they're talking about themselves. Seriously. There's just as many level 6's who do nooby things. It's just they get called 'noob' instead of that 'level 6 noob' as a level 3 would.
Yes, it is more likely that someone with a low level is inexperienced than someone with a higher level, but it doesn't always work out that way, and I'd say most of the people who join a hell on earth game are doing it on purpose - they know what they're getting into. You're still better off giving a player money/weapons when necessary regardless of perk level, making sure they're somewhat kitted out, rather than neglecting them because you want them to die and leave. You don't have to give them the moon. Enough for some basic weapons or if you're support (6) and they're support (4) maybe throw them a shotty and use the dosh you would have given to rebuy your own - just use your head about it, and that really only applies if they've joined in the middle of a match.
There's enough money for them to kit themselves out throughout the waves if they are there from the beginning. Low levels don't absolutely need to be supported by other players. Yes, they will need money if they want that aa12 or crossbow by wave 3, or showed up on wave 9 (which is often complained about regardless of perk level) but it's not necessary. There is enough to buy what you need as a low level if you play your part during the waves. Sure if you gave them that extra grand they could, for example, get that SCAR instead of rolling with m4/ak, but you don't have to. Unless you think your team would be better off if you did help them.
If you're arguing that they're power leveling, I still don't see your angle or why it's a bad thing. They are taking advantage of the fact there are more specimens with higher hp. Having multiple level 6's for protection? They'd have that if they were level 6 as well anyway. That's a dumb point. If they're truly power leveling they'll be pulling their weight and that 'protection' isn't even necessary most of the time. I'll admit, I'm sometimes guilty of power leveling myself, so go ahead and tell me I wasn't pulling my weight, and was hindering the team with my selfishness.
If there are people who are truly deserving of being neglected they are the ones who neglect the rest of the team during the waves, don't respond to constructive criticism, repeatedly die because of this, or hinder the team while ignoring advice. This has nothing to do with their perk level.
Being a better player means helping your team when and however you can. This guide has plenty of tips and tactics that will help players with this, but alienating a team mate only because of their perk level isn't good advice.
Skill > Perk Level.
Just use your head when giving out money.
Those facts may be true but you're wrong about them being the reason low levels can be useless in HoE.
They're useless for the same reason there are useless level 6's. Because they suck. At aiming, at specimen prioritizing, where to be, what to shoot and what not to shoot. This is what people complain about when that 'level 2 noob' joins and ruins their game. This is why this guide exists. It's never 'oh if that guy had 50% shotgun damage increase instead of 40% we would have been just fine and dandy'
The only thing the level 0-4 might be an indicator of is inexperience. That is the real killer. That is why they don't know what doors to weld, not to rage the fleshpound, join as level 1 demo instead of their level 1 sharp on wave 2, when and where to run, don't know map layout, or stand just a little too far forward etc etc.
As someone who's just started leveling a new account exclusively on HoE (and occasionally sui) servers, I can assure you that a low level can easily carry a full team of level 6's through a HoE game, and even the pat fight, and most of the time I'm not pulling miraculous clutches or anything like that. I'm just camping/kiting with the team like I would as a level 6. This, if anything, shows that it's not the perk bonuses that make the player.
If you want proof, just ask for it. I'll record my next few games and post a link to a myriad of screenshots, or whatever, the point I'm trying to make is that it's people who suck that are ruining your game not their perk level - the perk level bonuses don't matter enough to be the direct cause of wipes.
People complain about low levels because they don't know what they're talking about themselves. Seriously. There's just as many level 6's who do nooby things. It's just they get called 'noob' instead of that 'level 6 noob' as a level 3 would.
Yes, it is more likely that someone with a low level is inexperienced than someone with a higher level, but it doesn't always work out that way, and I'd say most of the people who join a hell on earth game are doing it on purpose - they know what they're getting into. You're still better off giving a player money/weapons when necessary regardless of perk level, making sure they're somewhat kitted out, rather than neglecting them because you want them to die and leave. You don't have to give them the moon. Enough for some basic weapons or if you're support (6) and they're support (4) maybe throw them a shotty and use the dosh you would have given to rebuy your own - just use your head about it, and that really only applies if they've joined in the middle of a match.
There's enough money for them to kit themselves out throughout the waves if they are there from the beginning. Low levels don't absolutely need to be supported by other players. Yes, they will need money if they want that aa12 or crossbow by wave 3, or showed up on wave 9 (which is often complained about regardless of perk level) but it's not necessary. There is enough to buy what you need as a low level if you play your part during the waves. Sure if you gave them that extra grand they could, for example, get that SCAR instead of rolling with m4/ak, but you don't have to. Unless you think your team would be better off if you did help them.
If you're arguing that they're power leveling, I still don't see your angle or why it's a bad thing. They are taking advantage of the fact there are more specimens with higher hp. Having multiple level 6's for protection? They'd have that if they were level 6 as well anyway. That's a dumb point. If they're truly power leveling they'll be pulling their weight and that 'protection' isn't even necessary most of the time. I'll admit, I'm sometimes guilty of power leveling myself, so go ahead and tell me I wasn't pulling my weight, and was hindering the team with my selfishness.
Spoiler!
If there are people who are truly deserving of being neglected they are the ones who neglect the rest of the team during the waves, don't respond to constructive criticism, repeatedly die because of this, or hinder the team while ignoring advice. This has nothing to do with their perk level.
Being a better player means helping your team when and however you can. This guide has plenty of tips and tactics that will help players with this, but alienating a team mate only because of their perk level isn't good advice.
Skill > Perk Level.
Just use your head when giving out money.
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I'd be interested to see a group of L2-3 players play HoE. Everyone L2 or L3.
With a group of L6s and a low lvl, there's always the possibility that the low lvl isn't carrying their own, but because they're not actively doing stupid things or wrecking the team's chance (I've just come from a kiting HoE game where a L4 commando joined up, and proceeded to empty his KSG into the FP whenever he saw it, causing it to kill 3 members of the team), they don't get pulled up on it.
Because yea. I reckon with some good players you'd be able to pull it off, and even do the patty. Even camping, for those people who're just "Play zerker and run away from everything in the world."
Because, yea, I reckon you could do it as well.
With a group of L6s and a low lvl, there's always the possibility that the low lvl isn't carrying their own, but because they're not actively doing stupid things or wrecking the team's chance (I've just come from a kiting HoE game where a L4 commando joined up, and proceeded to empty his KSG into the FP whenever he saw it, causing it to kill 3 members of the team), they don't get pulled up on it.
Because yea. I reckon with some good players you'd be able to pull it off, and even do the patty. Even camping, for those people who're just "Play zerker and run away from everything in the world."
Because, yea, I reckon you could do it as well.
Spoiler!
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Figured as much 
I think that conclusively prooves that low lvls on HoE CAN play and hold their own, and the only question is whether they WILL be an asset to the team or not.
And I think everyone agrees that the average low lvl playing HoE is unlikely to be great, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will always be bad.
Also, it's cool to know that a lot of the 'tricks' of KF (support sc/fp kills etc) still work at L3.
I think that conclusively prooves that low lvls on HoE CAN play and hold their own, and the only question is whether they WILL be an asset to the team or not.
And I think everyone agrees that the average low lvl playing HoE is unlikely to be great, but that doesn't necessarily mean they will always be bad.
Also, it's cool to know that a lot of the 'tricks' of KF (support sc/fp kills etc) still work at L3.
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that SUPANIGGA guy was pretty good too...you ever heard of them?
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There's no denying the appeal of Bad Company 2's multiplayer. DICE is still expertly nailing down what it pioneered all the way back in 2002, and the experience remains far from stale. However, poor design in the single-player makes for a campaign that's not only lacklustre throughout, but cripplingly buggy at times as well.
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Dunno about you guys but I, NEVER jump against a Husk, instead I prefer quick strafe aways to avoid fireball shots.
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I agree with nutterbutter generally. Yes low level players when in the know about zeds CAN be good, it's unavoidable that being high level is a great help and makes it a lot easier to play on HoE.
Can a level 2-3 do good? Sure. Are they as likely to do good as a level 6 of the same experience? of course not. And the issue here is not whether they CAN, because we know they can. The issue is that most low levels who join HoE still just aren't good enough to use their experience and knowledge to carry them to victory whilst playing at that low level. The tradeoff isn't worth it.
And I certainly know I'd rather have a mediocre level 6 than a good level 2/3.
Can a level 2-3 do good? Sure. Are they as likely to do good as a level 6 of the same experience? of course not. And the issue here is not whether they CAN, because we know they can. The issue is that most low levels who join HoE still just aren't good enough to use their experience and knowledge to carry them to victory whilst playing at that low level. The tradeoff isn't worth it.
And I certainly know I'd rather have a mediocre level 6 than a good level 2/3.
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Old thread is old, but just wanted to pitch in my opinion.
Making the cut off of high level low level right at 5 feels a little too harsh and arbitrary. In my point of view level 4 is the gray area in terms of perk. But also to me 4 feels like the level where you've nailed the perk role but just haven't gotten to level5.
Other than that I think this is a helpful guide. Prioritizing and reloads, 360 checks really help.
Making the cut off of high level low level right at 5 feels a little too harsh and arbitrary. In my point of view level 4 is the gray area in terms of perk. But also to me 4 feels like the level where you've nailed the perk role but just haven't gotten to level5.
Other than that I think this is a helpful guide. Prioritizing and reloads, 360 checks really help.
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Well, if you're going to bump this, then I'll reply and say that "never welding" is a bad idea. In fact, almost every map has a door/thing somewhere that is a GOOD idea to weld. Some examples: spawn doors in biotic labs, couch room in biohazard, side door in the small room in departed, almost any camp spot in Filth's Cross, upstairs in Bedlam... the list goes on.
Can you win without welding? Yes. Of course you can. Is it easier to weld doors intelligently when you're "not that great" yet? Yes also. You didn't provide any reasoning in your OP when you addressed welding, so I don't know what I should be refuting.
Can you win without welding? Yes. Of course you can. Is it easier to weld doors intelligently when you're "not that great" yet? Yes also. You didn't provide any reasoning in your OP when you addressed welding, so I don't know what I should be refuting.
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The guide didn't explain the basics on how to handle Zeds. I think new players need some simple concepts to help them understand what perks/weapons suit what kind of threats.
It may be obvious to vets, but actually, much of KF isn't intuitive. How is a noob supposed to know that a Katana/Axe is better against SC than any gun? Or how dual .44's are better against SC than even a SCAR? This add-on won't go into detail, just basic starting concepts, written for noobs of course:
There's basically 3 types of Zeds: Trash, Medium and Large.
Clot, Gorefast, Crawler, Stalker and Bloat are the Trash. Less dangerous, but often found in large numbers. (We could call them Small, but most of them are actually as big as players. Plus, the Bloat is actually large in size, so the Trash classification isn't really about physical size but about the magnitude of the threat they represent.) Trash zeds need to be killed quickly before they overwhelm in numbers, but they are much lower priority than medium or large Zeds. Firebugs and Commandos should consider it their full-time jobs to take the Trash out. Other perks should only consider it a part-time job, only when other threats are not around. It's tempting for Demolitions to focus on Trash too, since his grenade launchers basically nuke Trash. But it's better for Demolitions to focus on Fleshpounds, only contributing a grenade or two for Trash when free.
Siren and Husk are the Medium zeds. These are far more dangerous because of their ranged attacks, and Siren is usually the more dangerous one because of her large area of effect. Because they are so dangerous, they have to be killed asap by anyone available, as soon as they are spotted. Basically, EVERY PERK should always try to kill Mediums (except maybe Berserker with only melee weapons. But then again, a good Berserker should always bring some kind of gun for just this purpose). Don't wait, even if you are busy shooting Trash, the moment you see a Medium, you should switch focus to killing the Medium first, before it starts threatening the team. Any perk with any mid-tier weapon will do, with exception that Husk is effectively immune to Flamethrower, and grenades (both thrown and launched) are not recommended for Siren (because Siren can cancel grenades, and their explosions sometimes throw the Siren even nearer if she doesn't die). The 9mm can be used as last resort, but it usually takes too long to kill a Medium this way.
Scrake and Fleshpound are the Large zeds. They can rage, becoming far more difficult to kill, and far more dangerous to players. It's the Large zeds that usually cause the most problems for new players, the main source of wipes and fails. The key is NOT TO RAGE the Large zeds, and to use ONLY SUITABLE WEAPONS WITH SUITABLE PERKS. For noobs, the simplest and best ways to take down Large zeds before they rage are Sharpshooter headshots with Crossbow or M99 AMR, or Support Specialist close-in with Hunting Shotgun or AA12. For Scrakes, noob Berserkers with Katana may apply provided they know how to flinchlock, and the server difficulty is Hard or lower. For Fleshpounds, noob Demolitions with M32, LAW or Pipebombs is highly effective too as Fleshpounds have a weakness to explosives. But Demolitions vs Scrake or Berserker vs Fleshpound is a definite no-no for new players. Fleshpounds cannot be flinched, so flinchlock Berserkers will fail against them, while Scrakes are resistant to explosives so Demolitions will find them almost 2x as difficult to kill as the larger Fleshpounds. All other perks should stay clear of Large zeds so as not to rage them, and get help from more suitable teammates. However, once a Large zed has started raging, anything goes, and any perk with any weapon should now engage asap (if not busy running for their lives). Later, players should try to learn the other "tricky" methods for handling the Large zeds like the axe, grenade stacking and uppercut combos. But until then, the general rules above should be used. Even if you never go beyond using these simple methods, you will be considered competent already.
It may be obvious to vets, but actually, much of KF isn't intuitive. How is a noob supposed to know that a Katana/Axe is better against SC than any gun? Or how dual .44's are better against SC than even a SCAR? This add-on won't go into detail, just basic starting concepts, written for noobs of course:
There's basically 3 types of Zeds: Trash, Medium and Large.
Clot, Gorefast, Crawler, Stalker and Bloat are the Trash. Less dangerous, but often found in large numbers. (We could call them Small, but most of them are actually as big as players. Plus, the Bloat is actually large in size, so the Trash classification isn't really about physical size but about the magnitude of the threat they represent.) Trash zeds need to be killed quickly before they overwhelm in numbers, but they are much lower priority than medium or large Zeds. Firebugs and Commandos should consider it their full-time jobs to take the Trash out. Other perks should only consider it a part-time job, only when other threats are not around. It's tempting for Demolitions to focus on Trash too, since his grenade launchers basically nuke Trash. But it's better for Demolitions to focus on Fleshpounds, only contributing a grenade or two for Trash when free.
Siren and Husk are the Medium zeds. These are far more dangerous because of their ranged attacks, and Siren is usually the more dangerous one because of her large area of effect. Because they are so dangerous, they have to be killed asap by anyone available, as soon as they are spotted. Basically, EVERY PERK should always try to kill Mediums (except maybe Berserker with only melee weapons. But then again, a good Berserker should always bring some kind of gun for just this purpose). Don't wait, even if you are busy shooting Trash, the moment you see a Medium, you should switch focus to killing the Medium first, before it starts threatening the team. Any perk with any mid-tier weapon will do, with exception that Husk is effectively immune to Flamethrower, and grenades (both thrown and launched) are not recommended for Siren (because Siren can cancel grenades, and their explosions sometimes throw the Siren even nearer if she doesn't die). The 9mm can be used as last resort, but it usually takes too long to kill a Medium this way.
Scrake and Fleshpound are the Large zeds. They can rage, becoming far more difficult to kill, and far more dangerous to players. It's the Large zeds that usually cause the most problems for new players, the main source of wipes and fails. The key is NOT TO RAGE the Large zeds, and to use ONLY SUITABLE WEAPONS WITH SUITABLE PERKS. For noobs, the simplest and best ways to take down Large zeds before they rage are Sharpshooter headshots with Crossbow or M99 AMR, or Support Specialist close-in with Hunting Shotgun or AA12. For Scrakes, noob Berserkers with Katana may apply provided they know how to flinchlock, and the server difficulty is Hard or lower. For Fleshpounds, noob Demolitions with M32, LAW or Pipebombs is highly effective too as Fleshpounds have a weakness to explosives. But Demolitions vs Scrake or Berserker vs Fleshpound is a definite no-no for new players. Fleshpounds cannot be flinched, so flinchlock Berserkers will fail against them, while Scrakes are resistant to explosives so Demolitions will find them almost 2x as difficult to kill as the larger Fleshpounds. All other perks should stay clear of Large zeds so as not to rage them, and get help from more suitable teammates. However, once a Large zed has started raging, anything goes, and any perk with any weapon should now engage asap (if not busy running for their lives). Later, players should try to learn the other "tricky" methods for handling the Large zeds like the axe, grenade stacking and uppercut combos. But until then, the general rules above should be used. Even if you never go beyond using these simple methods, you will be considered competent already.
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I read this before I signed up on the forum (back when I hadn't even played HoE) and never said thanks for posting this. Back then, I definitely picked up a thing or two from it and I should reread it again sometime. Thanks.
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