You wanna be a better player? I'll tell you how...

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nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,019
1,281
0
First off, yes I am going to mention things that some people are already doing. And yes, I'm going to mention things that seem obvious. I'll be updating this as I think of new hints. That being said, let's go...

I'll highlight the new additions so they will stand out

Due to length restrictions in a single post, I moved the specific perk hints to here http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?p=656128

The Big Four Hints

There are four big secrets to this game; enemy prioritization, role play, reloading, and positioning during the attack.

Enemy prioritization is the big thing to learn. Let a clot or a crawler chew on you if you HAVE to make a shot to kill an FP or scrake or something similar. Kill the mobs in their threat order. That will mean turning your back on a mob or group to kill others but still keeping that clock in your head running so you will turn back around in time. That may mean shooting past a group of clots to kill the siren. That may mean ignoring the dozen clots in front of you and killing the husks behind them. That may mean ignoring a scrake till he is right up on you. Kill the most dangerous first and work your way down. As I mentioned, that may mean taking damage, but that is ok.

Role play. Play to your class' strength and role in the team. If you are playing sharpshooter then you are responsible for the FP and scrakes. So kill whatever you like, but you have to watch out for them. If you are a demo or firebug, then you are responsible for soften up mobs away from the group. If you are a medic, then your primary responsibility is to keep everyone at 100% health. Support and commando deals with groups up close and big mobs. Melee is big stuff. So kill whatever you want, but when your primary function is needed then you have to be there for the team.

Reload. Reload often. Reload EVERY FREE SECOND. If you drop a mob with one shot, and there is a lull in the action, reload.

Continually adjusting your position while firing. Always pay attention to where you are, the target specimen is, the next specimen you will be shooting is, and where your teammates are. I was trained to keep shooting until the target drops. The same objective works in KF as well. I see too many people shoot a single shot, look to see if the shot hits, if the specimen drops, then aim again, then shoot again. That takes much, much too long. Shoot till the target drops and if you are playing correctly, your wasted shots will stay at a minimum.

So what do I mean by continually adjusting your positioning?

1) Where you are. Always pay attention to where the next threat is. Don't let yourself be backed into a corner or pushed into a tight spot. If you have to move while shooting, move to area you can maneuver. This may mean taking a hit or two from another mob, but always think where you need to be after this specimen drops.

2) Where the target is. This important with mainly the FP and Scrake. A player has to pay attention to how the rest of the mobs flow around the target and player as the player attack the target. A player may need to rotate around the target as he attacks the target to use the target as a shield.

3) Where the next specimen is. Because the player should be shooting until the specimen drops, the player will fire shots after the drops. By properly lining up the specimens, any shots that either miss the target specimen or are fired after the specimen dies will hit the specimens behind the target. This always works with my recommendation of keeping the commando's weapons on auto. By always moving to keep a line of specimens downrange, the player can continually fire rapidly knowing that any rounds that miss the intended target have a high percentage to hit another specimen.

4) Where your teammates are. Try to keep from standing between the target and your team, especially for big specimens like the FP or Scrake. Always try to fight to the side so you will not be blocking any rounds from your teammates. Let your teammates damage the target or any other specimens that are rushing your position.



General Hints

Use the lowest weapon available. If you are killing a group of clots, switch to the 9mm and kill them. Crawlers/gorefasts/stalkers/everything under scrake and FP switch to pistols or level 2 weapon to kill. Save the big ammo for the big mobs. This also comes into play when picking up ammo boxes. If you regularly cycle your weapons, then the ammo box will provide ammo for multiple weapons, not just one.

Use your lowest weapons first. Everyone else is using their SCAR/M14/AA12 and so forth and a mob isn't going to die from more than 100% damage, so start off the wave with your pistol or lvl 2 weapon. Near the end of the wave, when others are dead or have emptied their big weapons, you'll still have maximum firepower with plenty of ammo.

Scavenge EVERYTHING. Don't steal other's dropped weapons but pick up everything else. After spawning, PAY ATTENTION when running to the trader. Pick up weapons, ammo, and vests along the way. Yes, it sounds basic, but I played on a suicidal map and a guy with over 600 kills ran by an xbow, lever rifle, and vest to beg for money at the trader. Pick up what you can. One of my favorite items to scavenge after spawning is a 9mm. It completely fills the 9mm ammo, and I can sell it to purchase dual cannons. A win-win.

Don't ask for money. Players who know what they are doing will donate to new players and players with the lowest scores. If no one has cash, or it is a low wave, then you are just going to piss people off. And if someone gives you cash, whether you need it or not, say "thank you" or "ty."

When there are about 6 or so mobs left, start scavenging and running to the trader.

Remember that there is a ton of ammo each wave. There is no reason to conserve ammo because you can always resupply between waves. And since you are using your ammo from the bottom (lower weapons) up, you will always have plenty of tier 2 and 3 ammo at the end of the wave.

Drop your headless mobs. Yes, it is cool to watch a headless mob meander around, but what if you or someone else has to move there? And headless mobs can still do damage. Drop the headless mobs.

Ignore grenades. Don't use them unless you are a flamer. It is dangerous to rely on them and some yahoo is always moving in front of you when you throw one. I mainly use grenades to open welded doors.

DON'T WELD DOORS. Welded doors hamper movement of the players more than it helps them. Yes, I know Support has to weld doors to progress, but other than that, welded doors hurt players more than it helps them. And welded doors teach poor habits and tunnel vision.

Learn to self-heal. Yes, the syringe works better on others, and you should give your medic every chance to heal you, but don't die after screaming "Medic" for 30 seconds.

If you have to use the stairs during a wave, reload before going up or down the stairs. If mobs are on the same level as you, on the stairs, or on the level above/below start shooting early and DO NOT STOP MOVING. If you stop on the stairs you will die. Shoot through them and keep moving off the stairs.

If you need to change floors during a wave, always look to simply jump over the side. You will take significant health damage so heal yourself first thing when you land.

Trust your teammates and don't be a douche. You have to learn to trust your teammate if he is covering a side. Say you are on the front and he is on the side. If you see a group mobs walking to him, and he can easily kill them in time, and he is firing on them, don't be a jerk and shoot the others. If you do that, a couple things will happen. One, you will piss off your teammate. Two, rather than primarily guard his area because you are taking kills, he will start to look elsewhere for kills. That means that no one will be watching that area and then a couple scrakes with a half dozen crawlers will creep up to the group. So if someone is killing mobs in their area, leave that area along.

Keep your rounds going downrange. If you are at the front line of your group and a crawler, clot, gorefast, or anything less than than a scrake or FP gets past you, LET HIM GO and let the people behind you kill the specimen. Every second you shoot behind you is another second you aren't shooting at the majority of mobs and another second they are getting closer. This is especially important for demos and firebugs. Always keep your shots going downrange.

Keep your head on a swivel. Don't develop tunnel vision. This is a big reason why I hate barricading. Barricading teaches poor play and tunnel vision. Keep checking your sides and rear. I always do a 360 check while reloading. After all, you can't fire so check your six.

Be aware when you are moving if you stop moving. If you stop moving but you are still holding the key down, immediately jump in the opposite direction, and fire in the direction you were moving. More than likely, you have bumped against a crawler or stalker.

Use mob behavior pauses to your advantage. When the zerker hits a scrake, the scrake pauses his attack. Use this pause to attack another specimen if you have to. I've only gotten to lvl 4 berzerker yet I fought 2 scrakes and a half dozen crawlers at the same time. Hit one scrake (he pauses), hit the other (he pauses), kill a crawler or two. Rinse. Repeat. Berzerkers who are more adept can juggle even more mobs simultaneously. This also works with firearms as well. Gorefasts will "do the limbo" (lean back) when a headshot is close. Use his lean to target other specimens while the gorefast is stationary. Husks are another. A good shot will cause him to lean forward and pause for a couple seconds. So if you see a husks a distance away, fire a quick shot to make him lean forward and the prevent him from shooting. Use the extra time to aim and kill him or kill closer mobs.

In Aikido, we have a concept; "Give the man a target, take it away." Works the same way in KF. If you need to buy some time and a mob is close, depending on the mob, you can move closer to the mob (give him a target) and then back up (take it away) after triggering the mob's behavior. The gorefast swings his blade. The crawler jumps. The bloat stops and vomits. The stalker turns visible and attacks. This maneuver buys valuable time and separation. This is best used while reloading or switching weapons.

Jump. If you need to avoid something, jump while moving. Clot grab you? Keep jumping as you move away. Crawler leaping at you? Jump as you move away. Gorefast sneak up on you? Jump away. Same thing with bloat. Same ting with Husk except you want to wait until he is just about to fire then jump over the shot. Jumping is incredibly effective when combined with a quick move away.

Back up while turning. This will buy you a little reaction time if something surprises you.

Don't forget to sidestep when crawlers jump. Trigger a crawler jump then sidestep to avoid the attack.

Don't be afraid to jump on a specimen's head. It is easier than it sounds. With practice, you can even learn to run and jump from on top of one specimen to on top of another.

If you have to kite a group of specimens, don't get too far our in front. You want to keep the group of specimens together. If you get too in front, they'll separate and now you have two or more groups that will converge on you.

When you are the last player alive, check the total specimen count to see if you can kite without having specimens spawn in front of you.

If you have to reload and are running from close specimens, run forward while reloading. You want to be as fast as possible and backing up while reloading slows you down and hinders your movement.

Always keep in mind whether movement or firepower is more important. For example, say you are running from crawlers or gorefasts and you have to duck in a door around the corner. If you have the health, take the hits to make sure you go where you have to go. Getting stuck in a corner, or by a barrel, or slightly overshooting the door so you have to run towards the specimens can mean immediate death. Make sure you go where you need to go and when you have a clear path in front, spin around and start shooting.

If you have a small group of specimens on you while your running, just drop a grenade and keep running. Don't throw it, juts drop it. You'll be able to run away to prevent any damage from the grenade's explosion and the specimens will stop running and clear away from the grenade.

Always try to carry the M23 if you have the space. It only weighs two slots, it have penetrating power, a ton of ammo, a large magazine, great stopping power, and it uses the '2' key which is rarely used anyway.


Firing

Shoot mobs as far away as you can. Dropping a clot with 4 bullets from the 9mm across the map is easily worth using a single shot of big ammo when the mob is close and maybe part of a group.

If mobs are close, you can back up so they line up and then it is a nice headshot fest with the 9mm, xbow, bullpup, or any other weapon.

If a crawler is close, let him get closer so you shoot him mid-jump. This is so your shots, if you miss the crawler, will hit something behind him. The idea is to get the crawler's body on the same plane as the other mobs.

Shoot quickly. Don't do the single shot. Look to see if something dropped. Shoot once again. Look to see if something drops. Shot once more. Shoot quickly.

Line up mobs. Never shoot at a single mob unless you have to. Always wait until mobs are stacked in front of you so any misses or extra shots will still do damage.

Shoot until the mob drops. Yes, you will use extra bullets but if you line your mobs up correctly, then you will do damage to other mobs with the extra shots. Think of it this way, "Would you rather have that bullet back or the 20 armor/health?"

Learn to headshot without using sights.

You will get away from threats faster if you turn around and shoot while moving backwards than just running forward. I've seen many players die from a single gorefast or crawler chasing them when they simply could have run backwards, killed the immediate threat, and put distance between them and the larger group of mobs.

If you have to kill a medium strength mob, shoot "through" the smaller mobs in front. Say you have a husk, siren, bloat, or something similar with a group of crawlers, gorefasts, or clots in front. Bring up a lvl 2 or 3 weapon and focus on the big mob since that is the priority and continually shoot through the small mobs till the med mob drops. It is sorta like driving. People subconsciously drive where they look. If they look at a tree while driving, they will subconsciously steer towards the tree. So focus on the important mob as you shoot and not the individual small mobs in front.

If multiple sirens spawn on you, tap heal immediately. You want to avoid the insta-kill of their scream. If you are close enough to touch them within a second, then close in and break out your fastest weapon and go for headshots. If you can't close the distance immediately, then draw your fastest weapon and go for headshots while backpedalling.

The 9mm is a great weapon to "pull" mobs. See a group of gorefasts entering a stairwell across the map? Firing a couple shots close to them will get their attention and they will walk to you. This is also great for scrakes and sirens as well.

If you are in a group where another player is "the big mob guy" (sharpshooter or melee) to attack scrakes and flesh pounds your job is to keep the other mobs off him when he is occupied with the big mobs. If you see him attacking or aiming at a scrake, then do not attack that mob, but kill the crawlers, clots, gorefasts, and such that are around him. While the big mob guy is occupied, he is effectively defenseless. Don't let him die.

Have a scavenging path when spawning into a level. Every map has certain spots on the map where ammo and weapons automatically spawn. Know where these points are so you can hit as many of these as possible when you are running to the trader. A perfect example is on the 'Foundry' map. When I spawn in Foundry, I run forward and to the right. There is a weapon spawn point in the far corner and on the left. If the trader is anywhere except at the very back of the map, I run up the steps and run to the end. That is another spawn point. Take a left and run to the open area. There is a span point in the right corner and if you run to the railing you can see another spawn point on the floor below. Jump down and there is a spawn point by the stairs. If you stay on the second floor you can run to the end and there is another spawn point to the left. There is plenty of time to check out these spawn points, make it to the trader, buy and sell, and run back with the group. You just have to know where you are going and not waste time.

Don't think you have to kill the specimen you are shooting. If you are on the run and you don't happen to kill that mob by the time you are next to him, keep running and finish off that specimen later. Keep a stopwatch running in your head and you will know you have a certain amount of time to shoot before you have to switch to knife and keep running.

Only pick up ammo boxes when you have time. Say you are alone and running for your life (and your team's game) and you need ammo. If that ammo box is in a bad place, ignore it. By a bad place, I mean in a room that you will need to enter and exit the same way. Or if the box is more than 2 or 3 seconds off your safe route through the map. Don't go for ammo if you have to backtrack to the trail of specimens.

Shape the mobs' attack with the m79. Non-demo players can't always kill gorefasts or anything higher with a single fired grenade, but that grenade can delay or shape the mobs' attack. See a couple sirens walking together? Fire a shot at the ground between them and split them up. See a group of gorefasts rushing a player? Fire in front of them to stun them. I believe in targeting the ground under a specimen than the actual specimen unless it is an FP or Scrake.

Aim fired grenades at the best spot in a group of specimens. This sounds obvious but many people always target the biggest specimen in a group and this usually wastes damage. Consider a group of a single scrake and 5 crawlers. Many people will fire the grenade at the scrake. This is almost always the wrong target. That scrake will absorb much of the damage. Fire behind the scrake and to the side. This will ensure the maximum damage to the entire group and will more than likely kill all of the crawlers leaving the scrake as an easy solo target. Pay attention to how you can target the group. Say a scrake pops over a wall followed by those 5 crawlers. Fire past the scrake and target the wall. Always target the grenade to do the most damage to the most targets.

Know when you have to put rounds downrange blindly. Someone throws or fires a grenade downrange, you have to know which specimens that grenade will kill and know about where the other specimens are. Put rounds downrange until the smoke clears. Sure, you can't guarantee head shots, but what you can do is inflict good damage until you can do maximum damage. Of course you don't want to do this when you are low on ammo, but switching to the 9mm is a great option.

Occasionally, actually often, you will need to unload a full load of ammo, make sure to pick out the one target that you absolutely have to kill. Could be the bloat in a sea of gorefasts and clots. Could be the husk behind a half dozen other specimens. The point is that if you are in that situation, make sure that you kill the one specimen you have to kill before you reload or switch weapons.

Sometimes it is better to drop cheap weapons when out of ammo and you have multiple weapons on a single key. MP7, HC, M23, bullpup, AK, .44, and so on. If you have only a single weapon on a key, then it doesn't matter. But rather than continually having to switch past an empty .44 or MP7, just toss the weapon.



Positioning and Group Tactics

In corridors, stay on the sides. Don't be a bulletproof vest for the mobs and don't block everyone else's shots.

Stay stationary as much as possible. Fire high quality shots. Lots of moving around is counter productive and completely unnecessary. It is much faster to simply kill the mobs than moving around and dodging. Yes, dodging is important, but killing the threat is better.

Stack your commands. The game will "remember" a keystroke while your character is doing something else. For example, while you are reloading (the animation is playing) you can hit a key (changing weapons for example) and your weapons will change after the reload. Or if you are running and reloading, you can hit your heal key and you will heal after the reloading.

Cheat healing. When you self heal, you can type another key, changing to a weapon for example, right when the healing animation starts and the animation will immediately stop but you will get the heal.

When you move within a group, move up and back. Don't move sideways. Moving sideways turns you into a very effective bulletproof vest for the mobs. If you have to move, forward and back. Not side to side.

Stay out of stairwells.

Stay out of barricades. Learn to use open areas. Open areas means the team can move if they need. Barricades box the group in and eliminate avenues of escape.

Don't fight in front of a spawn point. People want to fight in front of them and 30 seconds into the wave their armor is gone.

If you are on the floor, don't fight under a ledge. Don't fight where the mobs can drop directly on top.

Fight as far away from the mobs as you can. Better to fight in the middle of several spawn points than directly in front of one and away from the others.

If there is an xbow in the group, and the xbow wielder knows that he is supposed to pop FPs and scrakes, don't shoot the FP or scrake. Let the scrake or FP walk right up to you and only start shooting if he attacks you. Give that xbow a good shot and don't rage the mob.

If you can't kill a mob, don't be the first to shoot it.

Keep an path clear. That may mean ignoring the main group of mobs to kill that clot, but always keep one path clear in case you need it.

Use cover to prioritize husks and sirens. For example, if a husk or siren spawns in front of you but you have many mobs in between you and him, duck around a corner to keep him from shooting you while you kill the other mobs. Another example is foundry. If some husk is shooting from the 2nd or 3rd floor, duck behind one of those wheels on the floor. That keeps him from shooting you yet you are still free to shoot other mobs. As mentioned by Nath2009uk in this thread, use barrels for cover.

If you have to move within the team, and you have a choice, move behind others. This keeps people on target and doesn't block their shots.

Don't stand directly behind someone. When you move to heal them, heal them from the side so they can always back up. Few things are as annoying as someone trying to help yet they are always blocking movement.

Work with your medic. When you need healing and the medic is firing the darts at you, stand still. When you are at a distance from the medic and your health is dropping, if you see little green explosions that means the medic is trying to heal you. If you can, stand still. Just stand there and shoot. The medic will hit you. If you are on the same plane as the medic, call out that you need healing and run directly to the medic or stand still. Always thank the medic for paying attention to you.

Visually manage spawn points. As mentioned by Fa1lure, make sure someone stays in a position to maintain maximum visibility in all directions. This will help prevent a large group of specimens from spawning near the players.

Get small if you need to avoid specimens for a while. Don't feel like you have to pull every specimen. If you health is low, duck around a corner to break visual lock, and heal. This will usually get the large mobs to ignore you. Also, watch where you shoot so a single bullet doesn't go downrange and pull a large mob.

Learn to aim and make headshots without having to move in front of the specimen. Few things are are frustrating and counter-productive as a player who has to stay in front of the team and who has to continually move in front of every specimen. This blocks the other player's shots and can can be deadly when the constantly moving player blocks a teammate's grenade or rocket.

If there is one thing you learn from this guide, please learn this. Since the balance update, grenades are relevant again. When an FP or scrake arrives, and everyone is tossing grenades, BACK UP IN A STRAIGHT LINE. There is no need to zig-zag while backing up and tossing grenades. The only thing that idiotic zig-zagging does is block grenades from your teamates and kill them. Back up in a straight line.

On HoE and suicidal, don't heal any level 4 or lower player.



Reloading Hints

Never switch weapons without first reloading. In other words, never put an empty weapon in the holster unless you absolutely have to. Yes, there will be times when you have to switch weapons quickly to shoot immediately, but always reload before switching weapons so you will have maximum shots when you have to switch. If you have to switch before reloading, after reloading the current weapon, quickly switch to the other weapon and reload.

Rotate 360 degrees while reloading. Do a quick spin while you can't fire.

Don't reload going around a corner or into an intersection.

Learn when to do a "smart" reload. For example, a scrake is closing in on you and it will take more than a single magazine of ammo to kill him. Shoot him enough until you've done enough damage that a full magazine of ammo will kill him then do a reload and kill him. You want to do the reload before he charges.

When leaving the trader, cycle through all of your weapons and reload each of them.

Check the sides before reloading. This sounds obvious, but since players should be reloading as often as possible, they often forget to do a quick side check before triggering the reload.

Slightly lower your view while reloading. This will give you a better view during the animation.



Trader Hints

Know what you are going to do BEFORE you get there. There usually isn't much time to peruse the menu there and the menu doesn't change. KF loves to hammer people who are forcibly removed from the trader and drops lots of mobs right there. Treat the trader like a psycho ex-girlfriend; Get in, get out, and get away.

If you leave late and you are running to the group, don't stop running. Shoot on the run. But always keep moving to them. If you stop moving to them, KF will spawn more mobs between you and them.

Check your heath.

Run all the way into the trader. Few things are as annoying as being the last player to the trader and the other players are 2 feet in the door and you can't get in.

Don't give money to someone with less than 20 seconds left during trader activity unless that person is already at the trader. Giving someone money when they don't have time to get to the trader or if they will be trapped at the trader is just throwing it away.

It is almost always better and cheaper to buy perked weapons in early waves. For example, if I plan on using the M32 in the game, I'll switch to demo before the second wave. I get the M32 at the cheapest price and I play demo on the easiest wave.

Remember to buy weapons at a discounted perk price before switching perks. That way you can buy two perks of weapons during the same trader time. I love the M23 and almost always carry it. Since I always start the game as a sharpie, I'll sometime change my perk after wave one. But I'll buy the M23 before changing perks then I'll switch perks and buy the other perked weapons.

On HoE and Suicidal difficulty games, don't give money to level 4 or lower players.

Reload slow weapons while buying and selling weapons. The M32 takes a while to fully load so start the reload while in the trader. While reloading, start trading. While dealing with the trader, the weapon will continue to reload
 
Last edited:

YFGHNG

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 30, 2010
549
4
0
OCD
Reload. Reload often. Reload EVERY FREE SECOND. If you drop a mob with one shot, and there is a lull in the action, reload.

If you have to waste those last 4 bullets in your 9mm when a mob's really close so you can get the next full 15 bullets, do it.
 

Olivier

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 19, 2010
3,654
1,071
113
DON'T WELD DOORS. Welded doors hamper movement of the players more than it helps them. Yes, I know Support has to weld doors to progress, but other than that, welded doors hurt players more than it helps them. And it welded doors teach poor habits and tunnel vision.

''Welded doors hamper movement of the players more than it helps them''.---> Explanation please
''but other than that, welded doors hurt players more than it helps them''.---> Explanation please
''And it welded doors teach poor habits.''--->Explanation please

So you are telling me that you are playing on suicidal and you always roam around the map??? You can't survive with a team on suicidal just by running in the map. You need to camp a spot. And if you are smart enough, you will camp at a place where zeds will get to you in a straight line (tunnel vision... no thats being smart enough to not get killed). Have you ever tried to camp the entrance of Office? If so, you end up running away or dead. Welding a door is a strategy and it seems like you fail at doing it.
 

nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,019
1,281
0
''Welded doors hamper movement of the players more than it helps them''.---> Explanation please
''but other than that, welded doors hurt players more than it helps them''.---> Explanation please
''And it welded doors teach poor habits.''--->Explanation please

Welding a door is a strategy and it seems like you fail at doing it.

If I "fail at doing it" then there is no need for an explanation. Your mind is closed and there is nothing I can do to convince you.
 

Olivier

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 19, 2010
3,654
1,071
113
If I "fail at doing it" then there is no need for an explanation. Your mind is closed and there is nothing I can do to convince you.

Well you too then ^^
Thats suppose to be an helpfull guide. If a strategy works well for the others, it should be included. If welding a door would be such a waste of time and a bad strategy, why would it still be in the game?
 

nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,019
1,281
0
Well you too then ^^

I can tell you exactly how closed of a mind I have. I just spent a week playing nothing but a firebug to see if someone else's argument held water. You, on the other hand, don't care about having a discussion.

Thats suppose to be an helpfull guide. If a strategy works well for the others, it should be included. If welding a door would be such a waste of time and a bad strategy, why would it still be in the game?

Actually, it is my strategy guide. It is strategy and techniques that I use that I think would benefit others. Notice there is no melee included because I hate the melee class. The M14 is a waste of time, and a bad weapon that promotes poor playing, yet it is still in the game.

I'll discuss anything with anyone, but your mind is already made up. That is obvious.
 

Olivier

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 19, 2010
3,654
1,071
113
I'll discuss anything with anyone, but your mind is already made up. That is obvious.

And like i said you mind is probably made up too because you haven't provide me any explanation yet about your statements. Don't say my mind is already made up about something if you don't provide any arguments or explanation.
 

Temstar

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 21, 2009
347
3
0
Dammit, I actually agree with nutter for once, what have I become!

The reason I find welding door is bad is it doesn't actually cause the specimen to give up and walk around to another entrance. If it did then it would actually be worth it as you funnel the specimens into one or two lanes where the firepower of the entire team (minus some of the welder, because he have to split between welding and shooting) could be focused.

Instead it just makes the specimen pound on the door and for a mob to form up behind it. Which is very bad because rather than dealing with a manageable steady flow of specimen, you are suddenly faced with a massive horde the moment that door breaks, and it usually breaks at the worst time.

A team's damage output is generally in the form of sustained DPS, that is a weapon takes some time over a round to dish out its damage. Yes there are weapons that have very high burst DPS (pipe bombs, AA-12, M32) that could unleash a significant proportion of its total ammo (and thus damage) in a short amount of time. But this is not a very predictable way of fighting vs the steady flow method and if your attack fail at that moment (let’s say, door opens and siren duds that pile of pipe you laid for the mob), that’s a team wipe right there.

With movement, welding door does shut off your avenue of escape. Let’s take my favorite camping spot: biolab spawn point. Now there are 3 ways in, most of the mob will come down the long centre corridor and some will come from left or right. Let’s setup a situation: start of round 7, two fleshpounds plus other minor specimen are coming centre and 4 clots a piece are coming from the two sides. No one on your team has crossbows but you have many tier 3 weapons including AA-12, SCAR and so on. It’s quite possible for the team to take down that centre mob without taking damage BUT you need room to kite. If you have the two side entrance welded with the 4 clots pounding on them behind the door, your team will have no room to kite and that’s 3 people dead right there. If instead both doors are open, you could easily split into two teams of three, mow down the clots, regroup further out and take down the fleshpound, then move back to your camping spot.

Welding yourself in removes these tactical options without really giving any advantages to offset it.
 
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Olivier

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 19, 2010
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Dammit, I actually agree with nutter for once, what have I become!

The reason I find welding door is bad is it doesn't actually cause the specimen to give up and walk around to another entrance. If it did then it would actually be worth it as you funnel the specimens into one or two lanes where the firepower of the entire team (minus some of the welder, because he have to split between welding and shooting) could be focused.

Instead it just makes the specimen pound on the door and for a mob to form up behind it. Which is very bad because rather than dealing with a manageable steady flow of specimen, you are suddenly faced with a massive horde the moment that door breaks, and it usually breaks at the worst time.

A team's damage output is generally in the form of sustained DPS, that is a weapon takes some time over a round to dish out its damage. Yes there are weapons that have very high burst DPS (pipe bombs, AA-12, M32) that could unleash a significant proportion of its total ammo (and thus damage) in a short amount of time. But this is not a very predictable way of fighting vs the steady flow method and if your attack fail at that moment (let’s say, door opens and siren duds that pile of pipe you laid for the mob), that’s a team wipe right there.

With movement, welding door does shut off your avenue of escape. Let’s take my favorite camping spot: biolab spawn point. Now there are 3 ways in, most of the mob will come down the long centre corridor and some will come from left or right. Let’s setup a situation: start of round 7, two fleshpounds plus other minor specimen are coming centre and 4 clots a piece are coming from the two sides. No one on your team has crossbows but you have may tier 4 weapons including AA-12, SCAR and so on. It’s quite possible for the team to take down that centre mob without taking damage BUT you need room to kite. If you have the two side entrance welded with the 4 clots pounding on them behind the door, your team will have no room to kite and that’s 3 people dead right there. If instead both doors are open, you could easily split into two teams of three, mow down the clots, regroup further out and take down the fleshpound, then move back to your camping spot.

Welding yourself in removes these tactical options without really giving any advantages to offset it.
Must agree, but i also depends on the place you decide to camp. Never tried to stay at the spawn in biotic labs though. But by looking through the Editor, you can see the properties of the zombie volumes. So by looking through the SDK, you can tell what kind of zeds will be more likely to come knock at the door. Not saying that all the spots are effective when you weld a door, but with a dedicated welder and a medic for assistance on wave 9-10 (talkin about my experience) + exploring the map with the SDK = you can come up with some incredible camping spots. And by welding a door, you give more time to your teammates to take the zeds out (10 zeds on the other side of the door.... 22 left). So depending on the welder, zombie volumes and the door size, some spot are really easy to defend.
 
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HaTeMe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 20, 2009
2,688
550
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Behind You!
agreed. this is the mistake i see a lot of people make. not reloading when they easily could be. then they run into a fp and don't have enough ammo to drop it.

I used to play Wolf ET for 6 years and if you wanted to live, you had to reload every time possible. So, its sort of an habit burned into my mind lol, and I cant help reloading all the time no matter if Ive used only 1 bullet from the mag.
 

acolyte_to_jippity

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2010
85
0
0
wow, this guide was excellent. everything i'd have put in one. leave the fp's and scrakes for ss, don't rage them b/cause it's much harder to xbow them when they sprint...demos keep launher rounds FAR AWAY FROM GROUP (least fav. class to have in team. ****ing retards and their smoke), no m14, no welding...wow
 

nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
2,019
1,281
0
Temstar said:
...A very good summation

I agree with that 100%. Most people don't understand that the game boils down to Damage Per Second. If the wave is able to throw more mobs at the group than they can kill before the group is killed, then the group wasn't able to create enough damage within that time.

As someone's buys new and more powerful weapons, their DPS (I am assuming they hit the mobs at the same accuracy rate) increases. Everything a player does has to go to this. Shooting from the hip increases DPS. Faster reloads means higher DPS. Reloading during a lull means a higher DPS. Using the proper weapon means a higher DPS. Lining up mobs means a higher DPS. Armor means a more damage because it allows the person to shoot longer.

For example, say I am a support dude and I have a group of 8 clots walking to me. They are in a loose group. Even though all of my bonuses are for shotguns, if they are spaced far enough that I can kill them all faster with the 9mm than with the hunting shotgun, then my DPS is higher with the 9mm. Doesn't matter if the shotgun puts out 5,000 damage per shot. If the HP of the clots are 100 each, then the most damage I can do to each clot is 100, and if I can kill them faster with the pistol, then the pistol is the better weapon at the time and actually puts out a higher DPS.

This is why I hate flamers and demo who choose to shoot at mobs up close. When the flamers block visibility with fire and the demo blocks visibility with smoke, then EVERYONE'S DPS drops dramatically.

But when a demo pops a spawned group of 6 crawlers away from the team, his DPS is incredibly high. Same thing with the firebug. If the firebug has 8 mobs on fire, then his DPS is very high as well.

This is why a group wants to be as far away from the mobs as possible. If the mobs are 40 feet away then it takes a certain amount of damage to kill them. If the mobs are 20 feet away then the group has to do that same amount of damage in half the time. Yes, it sounds obvious, but many people don't think of it that way. By fighting at a spawn point a person has no chance to create enough damage without getting damage themselves. By setting up a camp around a corner, the group has reduced their damage zone from the actual spawn point to the corner.

That is why I am such a big believer in open spaces and not barricading. Barricading takes away the ability to create more damage. If a group is in an open area, they can back up, creating more space which really means more damage. If a group is barricaded, they are locked in a specific distance that can't change and the total amount of damage they can inflict before the mobs reach them is fixed. If the mobs bring more HP than the group can kill, then the mobs win.

I also think that if someone barricades all of the time then that is all they ever learn. I've mentioned when I logged into foundry on hard, and there were 5 lvl 6 players on the third floor, shooting from a corner while they welded a door behind them. All of that exp, firepower and armor, and they are huddled in the corner like a group of newbies with pistols. It was sad and not unusual at all.

Barricading teaches tunnel vision and laziness. What is more lazy that everyone looking the same direction and mindlessly shooting in the same direction? Add in that it is incredibly boring as well.

Same thing with pipe bombs as well. I hate them and I don't give away money to demo guys nor do I give away money after wave 10. It always goes to spamming pipe bombs. Sure, watching the patty or an FP flying up in the air is cool the first dozen times, but it just isn't satisfying. It is lazy play.

But hey, if someone wants to play the game that way, then so be it. I won't. Sure, I'll probably die more often when I'm running around and the game spawns six mobs on top of my head. Again and again. Or they put that bloat on the other side of that corner. Or the three sirens. But that is the fun of the game.


And like i said you mind is probably made up too because you haven't provide me any explanation yet about your statements. Don't say my mind is already made up about something if you don't provide any arguments or explanation.

Of course my mind is made up. I submitted the premise. My point is that you first asked for explanation, which I was more than happy to do, and then gave the blanket statement that I was wrong. You weren't looking for a conversation. Anyway, I answered your questions above.
 
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nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
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I used to play Wolf ET for 6 years and if you wanted to live, you had to reload every time possible. So, its sort of an habit burned into my mind lol, and I cant help reloading all the time no matter if Ive used only 1 bullet from the mag.

When I started play Bad Company 2 a couple months or so ago, I would screw myself all the time because I would kill someone and reflexively reload. And those reloads are 4 - 10 seconds which is plenty of time for someone to pop me. Did that for about 2 weeks before I finally stopped.
 

nutterbutter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 8, 2010
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So depending on the welder, zombie volumes and the door size, some spot are really easy to defend.

I don't want a spot that is easy to defend. Don't get me wrong; I don't want to run around the map with a knife and a suicide pact with the team every level.

But I want to play the game. Since I don't barricade, I'm usually solo the first few waves. After I rack up the kills, the other people usually ditch the barricade and join me. But the way I play, if I miss two important shots in a row, I'll die. And that is just fine with me. Since every shot is important, the game isn't boring or dull.

I like know that whether I live or die in the game depends on me, not some dude mindlessly firing an m14 down a hall. Sure, the game occasionally gets cheap. I've had 2 FPs drop on me while 2 scrakes were right there as well. (I survived) And I've had 3 sirens dropped on me many times. (Usually don't)

But that is the fun of the game; playing it. And shooting from a closed room isn't playing. Nor is it fair making someone spend the entire wave welding a door.
 
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Swift-Brutal-Death

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2009
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First, good job on the guide to playing well. Specificaly I had to agree when you said, "Don't steal other's dropped weapons but pick up everything else." I feel like that was a point I was making in a thread days ago but then you told me I was wrong and that, and I quote this directly from you,

"You would only need extra guns for the extra ammo right?
If you need the extra ammo, then you are a poor player."

You were telling me not to be upset if people take a weapon I drop for later on.

So this kinda makes me wonder whats up. As I see it there are a few options.
A) You were purposefully misleading people into thinking that a weapon on the floor shouldn't be grabbed so that you can get them all!!! (this is a joke)
B) The whole arguement you were making with me on the other thread was really just an arguement for arguements sake and that you really didn't believe what you were saying but simply wanted to change someone's mind on a topic. (sorta joking)
C) You smoke too much grass and totally forgot what you said a few days ago. (Dead serious)
D) I'm just messing with you, good work on the guide ; )
 

Melon_Reaper

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 6, 2010
116
3
0
California
First, good job on the guide to playing well. Specificaly I had to agree when you said, "Don't steal other's dropped weapons but pick up everything else." I feel like that was a point I was making in a thread days ago but then you told me I was wrong and that, and I quote this directly from you... blah blah

You still remember this? Man you don't smoke enough weed
let it go

Back on topic, good guide. Although it seems the welding topic is controversial, I'm starting to see the merits of not welding at all.
Of course, I'm biased because when I started, it seemed like every hard/suicidal server I joined employed the camping spots that required welding spots. You know, the classics in all their Fail glory: U-shaped Room in Biotics Lab, 3rd floor Foundry, and (my favorite) the underground tunnel in Manor.
I've lost my love for Support Specialist because whenever I play it, people expect me to do my blasted role and non-stop weld and then ***** at me when the door breaks.

Lastly, you include a portion on self-healing, but don't emphasize the merits of team-healing. If this is a comprehensive guide, you should explain the benefits of doing so. (even hurting each other on FF mode to gain some healing cash)
 

CandleJack

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2009
3,408
1,060
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VIC
You might not consider medic to be fun, but it as fun as hell is hot.
being responsible for keeping someone alive when they kcuf up is a pretty good feeling. That and i have grown used to the extra run speed.

I seem to find sharpie isn't as fun as it used to be, levelling it and all.
on this subject, aim for the head whenever possible, unless you're support killing a lower level spec. Aiming the AA12 at the head of a scrake or FP ups the damage and since it's already close, you're not really losing any buckshot around the spec.

And i concur, reloading at every opportunity that won't get you killed is an important trick to remember. Same as jumping when a clot gets you. Jumping will break the hold and allow you to get away.

Oh and a really helpful hint. The trader opposite the tunnel, opposite the church is able to sell you things without opening first. This allows you to get to the trader and get out without going all the way across the map.
(provided you aren't camping behind the door)

And another important tactic: learn where the centre of your screen is. The guns will all shoot at this point and learning where it is allows you to successfully no-scope.

And a tip for people: stay still, or don't move erratically when you need healing. Moving forwards, backwards, and side to side just irritates us medics and could end up getting you killed. This goes for jumping as well. Don't do it. Only jump if you're breaking a clothold or just mucking around between waves. But if you need healing then jumping is not the way to go.
 
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