The MKB. What are your thoughts on it? I think it's OKAY at everything, and that's what makes it good, but not great.
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You know it's a good gun when it physically distorts sounds
- Thread starter Branden
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Its an abomination, a blasphemy,a distortion in time and space. It should be removed. Or made extremely rare
I was actually going to make a 'thoughts on the Mkb' thread myself yesterday, but I refrained. This thread is too tempting however, so I will indulge myself.
The Mkb. Some love it. Most, it seems, hate it.
I'll start with what I like about it. Tripwire, as per their custom, lavished the usual stellar care on the weapon's mechanics, model, and animations. The animations are smooth, the model looks great, the adjustable sights feel organic, and the weapon handling is believable on fully automatic fire. It even counts the chambered round when you reload it from a partially full magazine. They clearly spent a lot of work on it, and they clearly want it in the game. And you know what? Pre-beta, when I thought it was going to be fairly rare, I was willing to give it a chance.
Now, I usually try to give both sides a fair hearing, but in this case, I'm just going to be absolutely plain honest.
I loathe it.
Without exaggeration, it actually makes me think twice every time I'm about to boot up the game. I bought Red Orchestra 2 for, if not a realistic representation of the Battle of Stalingrad, at least an immersive experience. Immersion. That's what brings new players to the Red Orchestra series. My roomate plays more often than I do these days... he was impressed with the elements of realism from the very start--he's never so much as mentioned unlockable weapons. Every time I see a new player commenting in the in-game chat, he's complimenting the realism, not how awesome the Mkb is.
If only heroes, or at least an Elite Assault class, had been issued the Mkb, I would well be able to live with it. One per map? I might even have felt excitement when I faced down a German with it. These days, upon encountering a German with an Mkb, I just groan. He's not unique--he just bought the DDE. As a Russian player, I've gotten tired of fighting them. As a German, my opinion of any teammate seen using one instantly drops.
And now Germans are starting to unlock the bayonets for them, which have the same melee range as the Mosin-Nagant's bayonet for some unknown reason. Even worse, Russian Hero classes are starting to appear with the Mkb. While part of me rejoices in that now the Germans are getting a taste of their own medicine, another part of me dies inside...
Most of all, I detest its sound, that obnoxious BADAABADAADABADABAMBAMBAM it makes indoors--a sound that never seems to stop throughout an entire round, destroying any chance of ignoring the fact of its existence no matter where I am on the map.
That's just my opinion. By God we need some real server options on rare weapons.
The Mkb. Some love it. Most, it seems, hate it.
I'll start with what I like about it. Tripwire, as per their custom, lavished the usual stellar care on the weapon's mechanics, model, and animations. The animations are smooth, the model looks great, the adjustable sights feel organic, and the weapon handling is believable on fully automatic fire. It even counts the chambered round when you reload it from a partially full magazine. They clearly spent a lot of work on it, and they clearly want it in the game. And you know what? Pre-beta, when I thought it was going to be fairly rare, I was willing to give it a chance.
Now, I usually try to give both sides a fair hearing, but in this case, I'm just going to be absolutely plain honest.
I loathe it.
Without exaggeration, it actually makes me think twice every time I'm about to boot up the game. I bought Red Orchestra 2 for, if not a realistic representation of the Battle of Stalingrad, at least an immersive experience. Immersion. That's what brings new players to the Red Orchestra series. My roomate plays more often than I do these days... he was impressed with the elements of realism from the very start--he's never so much as mentioned unlockable weapons. Every time I see a new player commenting in the in-game chat, he's complimenting the realism, not how awesome the Mkb is.
If only heroes, or at least an Elite Assault class, had been issued the Mkb, I would well be able to live with it. One per map? I might even have felt excitement when I faced down a German with it. These days, upon encountering a German with an Mkb, I just groan. He's not unique--he just bought the DDE. As a Russian player, I've gotten tired of fighting them. As a German, my opinion of any teammate seen using one instantly drops.
And now Germans are starting to unlock the bayonets for them, which have the same melee range as the Mosin-Nagant's bayonet for some unknown reason. Even worse, Russian Hero classes are starting to appear with the Mkb. While part of me rejoices in that now the Germans are getting a taste of their own medicine, another part of me dies inside...
Most of all, I detest its sound, that obnoxious BADAABADAADABADABAMBAMBAM it makes indoors--a sound that never seems to stop throughout an entire round, destroying any chance of ignoring the fact of its existence no matter where I am on the map.
That's just my opinion. By God we need some real server options on rare weapons.
Looks so #$)(* stupid, with the Russian 'hero' who looks like he's made a dirty protest and smeared it all over his uniform, along with the shape of that gun. Veterans look good; all thin and wild-eyed, but heroes on many maps just look like tramps, or toddlers who've eaten too much chocolate ice-cream.
A million times this.
ACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACKACK
Very few of the players this gun would genuinely have attracted are still playing. Those who use it a lot are the weak-willed, who explain their dependency by apologising that the devs must have intended the game to be played this way, and they have to use it to stay competitive: they would realise it was for the best if its appearance was made sensibly infrequent.
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To be honest, the thing I hate the worst about the MKB is the freakin sound it makes....Don't ask me why, but it just rubs me the wrong way.
I'll go out of my way to hunt down and kill the person using it (and only because of its unique sound). Unfortunately, some of my soviet teammates have met an early demise because of my assumption that its an axis player wielding it....
But greater that that are the hip shooting mg-34's. They rank at the top of my pet peeve list. Their ability to physically use the weapon as effectively as light, low recoiling smg just kills me. (pun intended).
I'll go out of my way to hunt down and kill the person using it (and only because of its unique sound). Unfortunately, some of my soviet teammates have met an early demise because of my assumption that its an axis player wielding it....
But greater that that are the hip shooting mg-34's. They rank at the top of my pet peeve list. Their ability to physically use the weapon as effectively as light, low recoiling smg just kills me. (pun intended).
If we're going to make remarks on historical accuracy, then I think the G41(W) should be a rare weapon as well.
I do resent this part of your post, though I agree with the rest.
I have a level 50 mkb, it's probably my favorite weapon in the game, simply due to it's ability to do a good job at everything, but excelling at nothing.
Do I rely on it to be my noobtube? No, I turned to the Ppsh-41 when I feel like running around CoD-style and hip-spraying anything in sight with a hundred rounds.
When I use the Mkb-42, I try to play it tactical; does my team need a close-range fire supporter, or does it need medium-range firepower? Is there a pesky MG or Sniper somewhere I can take a potshot at? Is the rest of my team aggressive or too defensive for me to be engaging at medium ranges?
That's the beauty of the weapon, in my eyes, is that it allows me to be flexible and tactical. With a ppsh-41, sure you can make some decent mid-range shots, but you're pretty much funneled into your role as a close-quarters powerhouse. Same deal for a bolt-action or sniper-rifle, you're excellent long-range and mid-range support, but you'll get annihilated if you try to engage in close range. (Well, most players do, some people are just insane.)
I still make use of other weapons, such as the Mg-34 (Level 50) And scoped G-41 (Level 50 as well.) And occasionally will pick up a bolt.
Just some thoughts from a regular Mkb user who is not part of this mindless rabid-dog crowd of twelve-year old kids you all seem to think are the sole users of the weapon.
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Well of course it does everything--it's a verdamnt'd assault rifle. In close, I argue it's a competitor with the PPSh. Better stopping power and penetration, in addition to the bayonet (!!!) make up easily for the reduced rate of fire.
At distance, it's very effective out to 150 yards. Those sights are godly. And if you miss with the first shot, you have twenty-nine more.
Ok, so these characteristics are common to all assault rifles. I can get that. They do reflect the capabilities the actual weapon would have. Allright.
But somehow, despite the fact that 7.92 x 33mm rounds would be rarer than pretty women at Stalingrad, you start with FIVE clips of ammunition with a Level Zero weapon in addition to the one already loaded. One hundred and eighty rounds of intermediate-caliber rifle bullets. Bolt-action riflemen get sixty.
And according to you, the PPSh is a noobtube? We started out with a 35-round magazine at Level 0, remember, with the heftiest full-auto recoil of any small arm in the game after the AVT-40. A 35-round PPSh magazine can be emptied in just two point three seconds. Even with the 72-round drum magazine, the PPSh has more recoil than the standard MP40 and runs dry a full two seconds before the MP40/II's dual mags. And guess what is the Level 50 Unlock? Selective fire, which was an existing feature on virtually every single PPSh issued during the entire battle. OK-so the PPSh may not have the highest learning curve of all weapons in the game, but it's the second most demanding of the assault weapons to use... behind the AVT-40. And the Russians have to unlock everything they would have been given as standard-issue in reality. No bayonet or scope for us.
Now, you dissed the PPSh quite harshly, so forgive me if I make the reasonable claim of calling the Mkb the most 'forgiving' weapon. You can run blindly into a room full of enemies and have a good chance of hosing them all down and surviving. You can run out into an open alleyway face-to-face with a rifleman in a window and, standing right there in the open, instantly aim down your sights and blow him to high heaven if he misses the first shot. You can camp the basement stairs or the stairs on the far left side of the side building near the bridges on Apartments (German) and be virtually invincible unless some Russian gets a good grenade off before dying.
It's a beautiful weapon that allows you to be a jack of all trades. You said that yourself.
Therefore, the Mkb should have been something a player worked towards, a worthy future goal. It should have been limited heavily, since it allows a German assault trooper to play elite rifleman and assault at the same time. Instead, everybody with the DDE got it, and you typically see two or three every map. No, I don't think you're a twelve year old, but forgive me if I'm not all that impressed at your Level 50.
I earned the (standard issue) drum magazine for the PPSh back during the early weeks when there were ELEVEN Mkbs on the German team. ELEVEN. I played Soviet every single day when I wasn't playing with my clan--out of enraged protest. And there I was, shooting back on Station or Spartanovka or Apartments with a 35-round stick mag PPSh. Spawn, fight, die, respawn, fight, die, respawn, fight, die... Reaching Level 25 before the patch "reducing" Mkb numbers to "just" SIX was an achievement I feel DAMN proud of, thank you very much.:IS2:
"Grandpa, what was it like using the PPSh noobtube in Mkb-grad?"
Noobtube. *spits* They should give me an achievement.
EDIT: in addition to the PPSh, I am often seen using the Mosin-Nagant, k98, or DP28. The best unlock I get with any of those three weapons? Some sight hood gets removed.
Addendum: before you say a weapon is perfectly normal, try facing it in combat. Play Soviet once in a while before you make any conclusions. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but if you've reached level 50 with three German weapons, you haven't seen how the other half lives yet.
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Seeing Germans running around with a scoped up, bayo'd MKb is without doubt the most anachronistic thing about RO2 - especially when the thing clipfarts* away on full-auto. The MKb has become something of a poster boy for everything that's CoD-ish about RO2 and come the Realism/Mods that thing will be the first up against the wall, and not before time too.
* I.e., the horrendously distorted/clipped sound effect that TWI have thus far refused to even acknowledge exists let alone do anything about.
* I.e., the horrendously distorted/clipped sound effect that TWI have thus far refused to even acknowledge exists let alone do anything about.
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Well of course it does everything--it's a verdamnt'd assault rifle. In close, I argue it's a competitor with the PPSh. Better stopping power and penetration, in addition to the bayonet (!!!) make up easily for the reduced rate of fire.
Hard to say, the Mkb's intermediate cartridge, despite being far more powerful, still needs to hit someone 4 times in a non-vital spot to bring them down, same as the Ppsh-41. Very rarely can you intentionally aim for a vital spot when you're face-to-face with someone, so I'd hand this to the Ppsh-41.
At distance, it's very effective out to 150 yards. Those sights are godly. And if you miss with the first shot, you have twenty-nine more.
Ok, so these characteristics are common to all assault rifles. I can get that. They do reflect the capabilities the actual weapon would have. Allright.
But somehow, despite the fact that 7.92 x 33mm rounds would be rarer than pretty women at Stalingrad, you start with FIVE clips of ammunition with a Level Zero weapon in addition to the one already loaded. One hundred and eighty rounds of intermediate-caliber rifle bullets. Bolt-action riflemen get sixty.
Won't dispute this.
And according to you, the PPSh is a noobtube? We started out with a 35-round magazine at Level 0, remember, with the heftiest full-auto recoil of any small arm in the game after the AVT-40. A 35-round PPSh magazine can be emptied in just two point three seconds. Even with the 72-round drum magazine, the PPSh has more recoil than the standard MP40 and runs dry a full two seconds before the MP40/II's dual mags. And guess what is the Level 50 Unlock? Selective fire, which was an existing feature on virtually every single PPSh issued during the entire battle. OK-so the PPSh may not have the highest learning curve of all weapons in the game, but it's the second most demanding of the assault weapons to use... behind the AVT-40. And the Russians have to unlock everything they would have been given as standard-issue in reality. No bayonet or scope for us.
Now, you dissed the PPSh quite harshly, so forgive me if I make the reasonable claim of calling the Mkb the most 'forgiving' weapon. You can run blindly into a room full of enemies and have a good chance of hosing them all down and surviving.
Same with the Ppsh-41, except it's even easier when you have the drum. I've gone up the stairs on Grainelevator and not even let go of my mouse-button while using it, coming out with 5-8 kills.
You can run out into an open alleyway face-to-face with a rifleman in a window and, standing right there in the open, instantly aim down your sights and blow him to high heaven if he misses the first shot.
Same with Ppsh-41, been there done that.
You can camp the basement stairs or the stairs on the far left side of the side building near the bridges on Apartments (German) and be virtually invincible unless some Russian gets a good grenade off before dying.
That's map-related, done that with the Ppsh as well.
It's a beautiful weapon that allows you to be a jack of all trades. You said that yourself.
Yes indeedy.
Therefore, the Mkb should have been something a player worked towards, a worthy future goal. It should have been limited heavily, since it allows a German assault trooper to play elite rifleman and assault at the same time. Instead, everybody with the DDE got it, and you typically see two or three every map. No, I don't think you're a twelve year old, but forgive me if I'm not all that impressed at your Level 50.
No problem, I don't mind if you're not impressed, and do appreciate that you don't generalize. I do agree it would be a great goal to actually work towards, but the problem therein is the fact that, eventually, everyone will have pretty high-level of everything. Then it won't matter anyway.
I earned the (standard issue) drum magazine for the PPSh back during the early weeks when there were ELEVEN Mkbs on the German team. ELEVEN. I played Soviet every single day when I wasn't playing with my clan--out of enraged protest. And there I was, shooting back on Station or Spartanovka or Apartments with a 35-round stick mag PPSh. Spawn, fight, die, respawn, fight, die, respawn, fight, die... Reaching Level 25 before the patch "reducing" Mkb numbers to "just" SIX was an achievement I feel DAMN proud of, thank you very much.:IS2:
And I don't envy that you had to do it during that time, but mind you, I also leveled my Ppsh-41 to level 25 before I had hero assault.
"Grandpa, what was it like using the PPSh noobtube in Mkb-grad?"
Noobtube. *spits* They should give me an achievement.
EDIT: in addition to the PPSh, I am often seen using the Mosin-Nagant, k98, or DP28. The best unlock I get with any of those three weapons? Some sight hood gets removed.
Definitely not saying that the Russians got it all good, DP28 is horrible compared to the MG-34.
Addendum: before you say a weapon is perfectly normal, try facing it in combat. Play Soviet once in a while before you make any conclusions. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but if you've reached level 50 with three German weapons, you haven't seen how the other half lives yet.
I have, like I said, leveled my Ppsh to 25 before I even had hero assault. Of course, now I use it against the Russian heroes who spawn with Mkbs.
Thank you for keeping it a civil conversation.
Uh, this again...
On saturday, I did my own tests. I switched servers regularly to constantly play on apartments, barracks and station. I played GER assault class all the time, because I wanted to test Mkb and MP 40. All the time, I played 1 round Mkb and 1 round MP 40, without switching my behavior much: always going the same routes, staying in the cap at the same places and covering the same doors/stairs.
I never finished the map, always disconnected right before the stats are saved. (Still, Mkb is on level 2 and MP 40 on level 1).
I haven't written down the amount of rounds I played, but the kill numbers tell it all:
Mkb: 311
MP 40: 126 kills
With the Mkb, I could be so confident on all these maps, that NO SINGLE Russian is on a 50/50 chance, when we spot each other at about the same time. No matter, which distance, as long as it's below 80 meters (which is basically the average fighting distance on all these maps).
The biggest difference I saw was that in Barracks, in the NCO-Barracks building, on the long hallway, the Mkb is god-like. Hide between that small cabinet, go into cover and aim down the hallway, and the building is basically yours. If a russian pops-up at the door? You shoot through the wall. If a russian comes from the side entrance? No problem, rate of fire and stopping power makes you own him.
Use the MP 40 and there is a big difference: rate of fire is lower, plus the stopping power is much much less. It is far inferior towards the ppsh, in close-range, as well as in medium range. Plus, it has the lower ammo count.
Another issue is that with the MP 40 I often wounded enemies, while with the Mkb, mostly, they died.
After saturday, I decided to play russian assault only (when not playing rifleman or Squadleader, which I usually do). On the German team, I am using rifleman or a semi-auto class (when I am not using the MG 34). However, I find the Mkb not just being wrong, represented in Stalingrad, but I feel that it's the Uberweapon.
And to be honest: I absolutely disrespect any player, using the Mkb on this game. Sorry, but that's how it is. And it's getting worse and worse, seeing Russians, running around with Mkbs. I am wondering, how did they get a weapon that most likely has never even made it to Stalingrad for the country that produced it? Plagiatism?
The Mkb is THE immersion killer.
On saturday, I did my own tests. I switched servers regularly to constantly play on apartments, barracks and station. I played GER assault class all the time, because I wanted to test Mkb and MP 40. All the time, I played 1 round Mkb and 1 round MP 40, without switching my behavior much: always going the same routes, staying in the cap at the same places and covering the same doors/stairs.
I never finished the map, always disconnected right before the stats are saved. (Still, Mkb is on level 2 and MP 40 on level 1).
I haven't written down the amount of rounds I played, but the kill numbers tell it all:
Mkb: 311
MP 40: 126 kills
With the Mkb, I could be so confident on all these maps, that NO SINGLE Russian is on a 50/50 chance, when we spot each other at about the same time. No matter, which distance, as long as it's below 80 meters (which is basically the average fighting distance on all these maps).
The biggest difference I saw was that in Barracks, in the NCO-Barracks building, on the long hallway, the Mkb is god-like. Hide between that small cabinet, go into cover and aim down the hallway, and the building is basically yours. If a russian pops-up at the door? You shoot through the wall. If a russian comes from the side entrance? No problem, rate of fire and stopping power makes you own him.
Use the MP 40 and there is a big difference: rate of fire is lower, plus the stopping power is much much less. It is far inferior towards the ppsh, in close-range, as well as in medium range. Plus, it has the lower ammo count.
Another issue is that with the MP 40 I often wounded enemies, while with the Mkb, mostly, they died.
After saturday, I decided to play russian assault only (when not playing rifleman or Squadleader, which I usually do). On the German team, I am using rifleman or a semi-auto class (when I am not using the MG 34). However, I find the Mkb not just being wrong, represented in Stalingrad, but I feel that it's the Uberweapon.
And to be honest: I absolutely disrespect any player, using the Mkb on this game. Sorry, but that's how it is. And it's getting worse and worse, seeing Russians, running around with Mkbs. I am wondering, how did they get a weapon that most likely has never even made it to Stalingrad for the country that produced it? Plagiatism?
The Mkb is THE immersion killer.
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Use what you like. Have a good time. There's always going to be some weapon or tactic that other people don't like no matter what game. Realistic or not ( I have no idea) it's there. If that's your gun, tear it up.
I won't lie, when I shoot a guy who's using the MKB, I get my own little achievement. When I pick it up and mow down the rest of his squad, I get another one.
It's just a mini boss battle. I like the challenge.
I won't lie, when I shoot a guy who's using the MKB, I get my own little achievement. When I pick it up and mow down the rest of his squad, I get another one.
It's just a mini boss battle. I like the challenge.
So what im getting here is that the MKb is like the AWP in cs... All the scrubs whine about it, but it really means nothing to the elite player. I kill AWPs all day with glocks and mac10s, and i kill MKbs all day with pistols, well basically any gun in the game. I dont whine and dis people who feel like using something they want.
Hard to say, the Mkb's intermediate cartridge, despite being far more powerful, still needs to hit someone 4 times in a non-vital spot to bring them down, same as the Ppsh-41. Very rarely can you intentionally aim for a vital spot when you're face-to-face with someone, so I'd hand this to the Ppsh-41.
Same with the Ppsh-41, except it's even easier when you have the drum. I've gone up the stairs on Grainelevator and not even let go of my mouse-button while using it, coming out with 5-8 kills.
Same with Ppsh-41, been there done that.
That's map-related, done that with the Ppsh as well.
Yes indeedy.
No problem, I don't mind if you're not impressed, and do appreciate that you don't generalize. I do agree it would be a great goal to actually work towards, but the problem therein is the fact that, eventually, everyone will have pretty high-level of everything. Then it won't matter anyway.
And I don't envy that you had to do it during that time, but mind you, I also leveled my Ppsh-41 to level 25 before I had hero assault.
Thank you for keeping it a civil conversation.
Oh, I'm usually quite civil, believe me. This topic just makes my blood boil over.
Now, I strongly dispute the assertion that the Mkb takes four shots to kill, even assuming you hit only non-lethal areas. Even the most cursory testing reveals that one or two shots to the torso are overwhelmingly lethal in the large majority of cases. One shot generally sends an enemy into slow death if it doesn't kill him outright, and the second shot in the torso has yet to fail to finish them off.
Here are the results of a test of 99 unfortunate German bots.
51 killed in one non-lethal torso hit (no nut shots or heart shots)
22 killed via slow death immediately after one non-lethal torso hit
20 killed after two non-lethal torso hits
3 killed via slow death after two hits
2 killed after three hits
2 killed via slow death after three hits.
No results for kills after four or more hits.
Here are the results of 97 Russian bots (PPSh). All bots were killed using very careful single shots, confirming that only one bullet hit at a time via the wound decals.
15 1-shot
9 1-shot slow
42 2-shot
25 2-shot slow
5 3-shot
1 3-shot slow
No results for kills after four or more hits
So if these results are to be trusted, the Mkb has a significantly higher 1-shot kill lethality. (screenshots showing me conducting the study are below)
I will, however, concede that the drum-fed PPSh is a contender to the Mkb in close quarters. I argue that the Mkb has a slight edge due to stopping power, the bayonet, and the longer barrel, which makes aiming hipfire easier, but the difference is small. You do, though, acknowledge that the Mkb is superior by a wide margin at medium and long range, as well as the fact that the PPSh is VERY inferior until the drum magazine is unlocked? (I re-iterate that the 35-round magazine can be emptied in slightly over two seconds, meaning that encountering multiple enemies in close-quarters becomes a matter of very efficient ammunition management) In that case, we agree that the Mkb is a superior weapon in many respects.
