Yet more suggestions to fix up weapon handling

[DesiQ]

1. Suppression should affect weapon sway more. Right now it barely affects it at all, aside from a little jump if a bullet lands right next to you. Making suppression more effective is good for everyone. It means covering fire from rifles and MGs is no longer just a big shoot-me beacon.
2. Weapon sway during movement should be increased a bit. It's a little too easy to strafe-shoot a guy from a window at 80m.
3. Stamina should affect sway. Can't believe this isn't in the game already. As you approach exhaustion, your weapon should be hard to keep on point at all stances. Even when prone, it's not gonna be easy to aim precisely while you're gasping for air.
4. Have a short period of inaccuracy while getting a sight picture. I'm thinking the sights should not be quite aligned, maybe for half a second or three-quarters of a second for a complete newbie soldier. It shouldn't interfere with short-range snapshooting, but it should be good for making instant 80-100m snapshots from cover a bit more difficult. As the soldier levels up with the weapon, the delay naturally drops.

 

[LOOY]

1. Fine the way it is.
2. Fine the way it is.
3. God no, this game has enough campers.
4. Agree with this one.

 

[Jorg Biermann1]

1. Fine the way it is.
2. Fine the way it is.
3. God no, this game has enough campers.
4. Agree with this one.

Wow. I'm sorry but I actually hate you.

Another suggestion. Increase Aim Down Sight Time.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

1. Fine the way it is.
2. Fine the way it is.
3. God no, this game has enough campers.
4. Agree with this one.

If someone advances smart and is sitting in a good postion and you come charging at them and get killed. Calling them a "camper" is just covering up for your ineptitude.
In fact, many times in this game it is possible to kill the person in cover because of how little stamina / bullets coming at you effects your aim.

@op:
Yes to all 4. Although there have been other posts similar to this already.

edit @ 4 in particular. I wouldent mind if the total time to raise IS was composed 50% of getting it to shoulder, and 50% getting the IS alligned. In this way in CQB you can still get it to your shoulder quickly enough, but you have less hope of snapping long range shots. Also the total time to raise IS should be increased ( total time to be between 1 - 3 seconds ). How quickly a weapon can be maneuvered should also be highly dependant upon its weight and length.

 

[MrHello]

I agree 100% supression needs to affect weapon sway by atleast 3 times the amount it does at the moment, just try it out for us tripwire, please?

Make the change for the beta patch and see how many users like it, and how many don't.

I can guarentee under the limits of my knowledge that it will improve the game.

An increase of IS time, is also preferable.

 

[Cyper]

1. Suppression should affect weapon sway more. Right now it barely affects it at all, aside from a little jump if a bullet lands right next to you. Making suppression more effective is good for everyone. It means covering fire from rifles and MGs is no longer just a big shoot-me beacon.
2. Weapon sway during movement should be increased a bit. It's a little too easy to strafe-shoot a guy from a window at 80m.
3. Stamina should affect sway. Can't believe this isn't in the game already. As you approach exhaustion, your weapon should be hard to keep on point at all stances. Even when prone, it's not gonna be easy to aim precisely while you're gasping for air.
4. Have a short period of inaccuracy while getting a sight picture. I'm thinking the sights should not be quite aligned, maybe for half a second or three-quarters of a second for a complete newbie soldier. It shouldn't interfere with short-range snapshooting, but it should be good for making instant 80-100m snapshots from cover a bit more difficult. As the soldier levels up with the weapon, the delay naturally drops.

　
I agree with you to 100%. Very good post.

However, with the short period of accuracy, IMO the time for that shouldn't be decreased to minimum, but rather to normal, since it would be quite unfair if some players must aim for about 3 seconds and some can simply get a good sight in one. Here is basicly what we're talking about. In overall, what really is positive is that all those things probably can be added to the game, and it will improve A LOT of the gameplay.


Virtual Battlespace 2 - Technical Features Trailer (VBS2)[/COLOR][/U][/URL]
　

Timeline: 10:34
A great demostration on how it can look while you're aiming down the sight while walking forward. Note how it looks like you're actually [/i]walking[/i] than just floating over the ground. You will also have to move your mouse accordingly to the increased sway.

Timeline:
13:06

Here's the float zone talk about. Notice how the aiming becomes more true to life and less robotic. It feels smooth and looks very natural and removes the robotic-like way you aim. It also makes your arms feel like they're makes of bones, flesh and muscles - since you can aim with your gun WITHOUT having to turn around your whole body. If floatzone was used in MODERATION I think it would be awesome.
　
Timeline: 11:15
Notice how the gun he's aiming with the gun. It looks quite smooth, not very robotic.

Timeline: 11:24
Exactly what you said; weapon sway based on health and stamina

1. Fine the way it is.
2. Fine the way it is.
3. God no, this game has enough campers.
4. Agree with this one.

For most people it isn't fine at all. And it doesn't increase your chance of getting killed by a ''camper''. It decreases the chance and it will make force the players to be a lot more carefull, and these quickaim headshots will be history if it's done properly. As it is now, the weapons are unbalanced compared to the overall hardcore gameplay. Easy weapon handling doesn't go along with easy deaths. It makes it unbalanced; if the weapon handling is easy, you must be able to take more damange. If the weapon handling is harder you must be able to take less damage. Balance. It isn't just about making it hard, but making it more natural and making it fit better into the whole idea of red orchestra which is based in realism rather than arcade.

I don't know what history you have with RO but when it comes to campers it's a part of the game, as with any other game that focus on strategy and realism, simply because those games are more or less not designed for run and gun.

 

[DesiQ]

I wouldent mind if the total time to raise IS was composed 50% of getting it to shoulder, and 50% getting the IS alligned. In this way in CQB you can still get it to your shoulder quickly enough, but you have less hope of snapping long range shots. Also the total time to raise IS should be increased ( total time to be between 1 - 3 seconds ). How quickly a weapon can be maneuvered should also be highly dependant upon its weight and length.

This is an excellent idea. Having different raise times for different weapon lengths (fastest for pistols, then SMGs, then rifles) would be excellent, since it would delineate the roles of each weapon. Even though the 98k and MP-40 are (according to wiki) around the same weight, the short length of the MP-40 would surely be advantageous for handling in CQB situations.

　
However, with the short period of accuracy, IMO the time for that shouldn't be decreased to minimum, but rather to normal, since it would be quite unfair if some players must aim for about 3 seconds and some can simply get a good sight in one.

Yeah, this is more of what I meant. That green soldiers would need to spend maybe half a second longer to align their sights compared to veterans.

 

[Nazarov]

1. Suppression should affect weapon sway more. Right now it barely affects it at all, aside from a little jump if a bullet lands right next to you. Making suppression more effective is good for everyone. It means covering fire from rifles and MGs is no longer just a big shoot-me beacon.
2. Weapon sway during movement should be increased a bit. It's a little too easy to strafe-shoot a guy from a window at 80m.
3. Stamina should affect sway. Can't believe this isn't in the game already. As you approach exhaustion, your weapon should be hard to keep on point at all stances. Even when prone, it's not gonna be easy to aim precisely while you're gasping for air.
4. Have a short period of inaccuracy while getting a sight picture. I'm thinking the sights should not be quite aligned, maybe for half a second or three-quarters of a second for a complete newbie soldier. It shouldn't interfere with short-range snapshooting, but it should be good for making instant 80-100m snapshots from cover a bit more difficult. As the soldier levels up with the weapon, the delay naturally drops.

This makes sense.
For #1, this puts bolt action even more at advantage, but if the medium-long to long range accuracy is reduced for autos and semi on consecutive fire, then I can definitely live with it.

 

[DesiQ]

This makes sense.
For #1, this puts bolt action even more at advantage

In what way?

Just watched that VBS2 trailer. I love the weapon sounds

 

[Nazarov]

In what way?

Just watched that VBS2 trailer. I love the weapon sounds

 

[Filo90]

+1 op

 

[DesiQ]

The suppression system impacts the bolt action rifle most. I have only 1 bullet to work with against the drum of PPSH. 1 bullet from bolt action won't have that much suppressive effect on an auto because they can just hold down the fire button and readjust aim while firing.
Of course, I'm talking medium-long to long range. Short to medium range, rifle should have disadvantage

What's VBS2?

I suppose that's why no armies have bolt-actions as standard issue any more, though. The advantage of semi-auto and full-auto is precisely that volume of fire, so I think it will still be fine, especially if they reduce the number of autos.

And VBS2 is the game (or virtual training aid, if you will) that armies use to train infantry.

 

[CaptHawkeye]

All rational conversation has ceased the moment someone brings VBS1 into topics about Red Orchestra 2.

 

[DesiQ]

All rational conversation ceases if someone starts a flamewar between VBS and RO.

I stand by my need for less precise weapon handling and more ear-splitting gunfire.

 

[CaptHawkeye]

This is like comparing apples to oranges. You might as well be asking if NASA should take lessons on rocket development from Hamas.

 

[DesiQ]

This is like comparing apples to oranges. You might as well be asking if NASA should take lessons on rocket development from Hamas.

I fail to see how this comparison is at all analogous.

Back on topic, I was thinking about a fifth point:

Slightly increase the dead zone in which the weapon can move around while in ironsights. Not so that the weapon becomes unstuck from your shoulder, and not enough that it stops you from snapshooting in CQB, but just enough that I can move the ironsights down and out of my view so I can see in front, without having to shift my entire view downwards. Very handy for walking around at the ready when inside buildings.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

1. Suppression should affect weapon sway more. Right now it barely affects it at all, aside from a little jump if a bullet lands right next to you. Making suppression more effective is good for everyone. It means covering fire from rifles and MGs is no longer just a big shoot-me beacon.
2. Weapon sway during movement should be increased a bit. It's a little too easy to strafe-shoot a guy from a window at 80m.
3. Stamina should affect sway. Can't believe this isn't in the game already. As you approach exhaustion, your weapon should be hard to keep on point at all stances. Even when prone, it's not gonna be easy to aim precisely while you're gasping for air.
4. Have a short period of inaccuracy while getting a sight picture. I'm thinking the sights should not be quite aligned, maybe for half a second or three-quarters of a second for a complete newbie soldier. It shouldn't interfere with short-range snapshooting, but it should be good for making instant 80-100m snapshots from cover a bit more difficult. As the soldier levels up with the weapon, the delay naturally drops.

1. I disagree. Even at current state you can often be under "suppression" from standing near an ally who is shooting away from you. I understand that being under fire should make it hard for you to focus (the little jumps in the aim simulate that), but not put you in a total seizure.

2. Are you sure some guy from window strafe fired you from 80m? Because all accuracy goes out the window for me when my character is moving, and even a 50m is hard to hit while moving for me in this game. Basically I agree that 80m strafe shots should be kept to non-existence, but I never seen one personally (with over 100 hours played).

3. Stamina does affect sway. Maybe you want more, which is understandable but you should be aware that it does affect the sway atm.

4. Sounds reasonable and it may be easily achieved since when you move your gun while ADS, you can already see that ironsight goes out of sync. Perhaps something like that for a half a second or so when you first pull up ironsight?

 

[CaptHawkeye]

I fail to see how this comparison is at all analogous.

Well obviously, or you wouldn't be making comparisons like this in the first place.

VBS1 is a milsim, RO is a shooter. Mkay?

 

[Stormer]

1. Fine the way it is.
2. Fine the way it is.
3. God no, this game has enough campers.
4. Agree with this one.

TWI target audience

 

[gimpy117]

standing shot has plenty of sway IMO. Feels like the amount that I get when I try a standing shot. Supported sway is where it needs to be too: almost not there.

my suggestion: use cover