WWAUT - The Tools Of A Demo

[mrsirr]

You are quoting me but replying to someone else. I have not suggested allowing all the C4 to be detonated at once. I have only been advocating for the ability to choose which C4 to detonate if you have more than one planted at a time.

If you assume this means you could plant 8 at one spot and one-click detonate all of them - the easy fix is only allowing one to be blown up per click even if they are stacked.

Ah yes, my B. Yeah I'd be fine with choosing which one to detonate. I'd even be okay-ish with having the ability to detonate them all at once; the only issue is with only being able to detonate all of them like some games do. This absolutely makes it a spammy weapon.

 

[Ryno5660]

I like the c4 as-is. You can get a pattern going, make a trap with yourself or another as bait...And being able to control detonation is fantastic! This way requires a bit of premeditation, I can also see the potential for major damage too. I can't wait to see the demo skill tree alongside what a level 25 perk-skilled-up block of c4 can do!

EDIT:

Only issue I've had with a system like this (and it's never been a huge one as I recycle) but what happens when you have laid 8 down, chaos happens and your 8-bomb-train's placement becomes useless. Say about 6 bombs remain that aren't going to kill anything now. Do I have to detonate them to free up the placement and waste a bomb? Can I pick em back up again?

Wait wait wait. We have a fire key, an iron sights key and an alternate fire key. Is there a third function?

 

[Moskeeto]

I like the idea of right-click making all of them detonate at once.

 

[Ryno5660]

I like the idea of right-click making all of them detonate at once.

I didn't even think of that, I love that. Having all the bombs go at the same time is my favourite kind of bomb!

 

[Azukki]

(all users are requested to fully read the manual, specifically the section on back blasts and safety).

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/rpg-7.pdf

EMPLOYMENT LIMITATIONS
​

• Personnel, ammunition, and inflammables must be at least 30 meters behind the breech to avoid the firing back blast.
• The breech must clear any solid objects by at least 2 meters.
• The launcher muzzle must be at least 8 inches from any cover or fortifications to prevent the grenade stabilizer fins from hitting any object after firing.

 

[CrashFu]

As soon as I saw the gif of the backblast, I was convinced.... we're going to have an achievement for finishing off a Scrake or FP via backblast. Or for simultaneously killing enemies behind us and in front of us with one shot.


Also I really like that the C4 will actually require thought and player involvement to use now. My question is, though... Any update on WHAT we'll be able to stick C4 to? it was mentioned a couple news entries ago that the C4 (at that time) was sticking to literally anything, and that would have to be changed for balance reasons...

But I reeeeaaaally want to be able to slap it onto a FP's face. Or attach them to small zeds and use a Pulverizer to knock those zeds into their friends and watch the fireworks.

 

[Azukki]

Wait wait wait. We have a fire key, an iron sights key and an alternate fire key. Is there a third function?

The F key has, so far, been only for flashlights, but if they wanted to make it more versatile, they probably could.

I wonder if the C4 placement can be undone, just go and pick one back up?

 

[HSMagnet]

Heres hoping explosives do a hell of a lot more damage if we don't get m32.

i'll drink to that

 

[LeChevaliere]

Will C4 replenish from ammo pickups (perhaps just a chance of +1 charge as in KF1)?

Will the C4 "weapon" remain in the slot after the last charge is detonated (so you can pick up more charges)?

Can the C4 be dropped by the owner? And would another player picking it up be able to detonate charges placed by the original owner?


With regard to the detonation options I would also go for detonating all with alt-fire. But another possibility is that alt-fire allows us to disarm and pick up a placed charge when standing close to it (although that kind of dilutes the planning requirement in placement).

 

[silverlighted]

Hype hype hype.

No M32? How will I complete the bling achievements??? Lol

 

[Kothre]

Looks pretty good. I'm sad to see no rapid fire grenade launcher like the M32, though I'm confident we'll see it eventually. Love the attention to detail on the RPG having backblast for once.

I'm in agreement with many other posters about the C4. There are actually a lot of games that detonate remote explosives in the order they're thrown, and honestly, that tends to really limit player options. You have to perfectly anticipate where enemies are coming from, and that basically never works out in practice. I think it should work like the Scottish Resistance from TF2- you detonate the explosives you're looking at. If you have to rebalance it by tweaking damage, radius, etc., go for it. But I think sequential detonation is really limiting player options. I don't claim to speak for others, but when I play a game with sequential detonation, it just makes me lay barely any explosives down.

 

[Ryno5660]

Looks pretty good. I'm sad to see no rapid fire grenade launcher like the M32, though I'm confident we'll see it eventually. Love the attention to detail on the RPG having backblast for once.

I'm in agreement with many other posters about the C4. There are actually a lot of games that detonate remote explosives in the order they're thrown, and honestly, that tends to really limit player options. You have to perfectly anticipate where enemies are coming from, and that basically never works out in practice. I think it should work like the Scottish Resistance from TF2- you detonate the explosives you're looking at. If you have to rebalance it by tweaking damage, radius, etc., go for it. But I think sequential detonation is really limiting player options. I don't claim to speak for others, but when I play a game with sequential detonation, it just makes me lay barely any explosives down.

I do agree that this "sequential detonation" can be a bit limiting when laying large ambushes, ones that would require anywhere between 5-8 blocks at the rate they're going off. 4 seems good for it as they go fairly quickly together from that gif.

But this is kind of why I was asking about the third option. Say primary fire detonates, right click throws. What does block button do? I had an idea for a green-lit number which toggles as you click it. I like what the scottish resistance did, but having to look in the direction of them, not sure about that.

But that's just me throwing ideas around again. If it is standard in-order detonations then I can work with that too. A chokepoint where they're coming through staggered would be a deathtrap as they are going off in sequence, not at once!

 

[CrashFu]

I assume the sequential detonations just exist so we can leave a trail of C4, leading from the farthest point we're keeping an eye on towards our current position, detonate the first (ideally furthest) one when a cluster of zeds is near it.. and then have the next one immediately ready for the next group of zeds (or any tough ones that survive the first blast)

But with the major advantage over the proximity sensors of being able to choose NOT to detonate, if unfavorable enemies are crossing (small groups, scrakes, whatever)


Having a "detonate all" button might not be necessary if explosives, including other C4, will set these things off.. we don't know one way or another yet. But given how cheap and effortless the "huge pile of pipe-bombs" strategy made defeating Patty in the first game, and the steps necessary to nerf the device because of it, it could be possible that Tripwire just doesn't want that sort of thing done any more.


As for detonating whichever C4 charge we look at.. that seems kind of redundant when ALL THREE of our other weapons have the sole purpose of "explode the thing I'm pointing at", don'tcha think? Besides, without magical UI elements are you going to be able to remember exactly where you put each of your C4 charges and which ones you've already detonated? (okay I guess the scorch marks and even coating of blood will be a good indication.... the first time around) When will this even be practically useful, in the typical Killing Floor scenario? You're going to simultaneously keep a constant watch on three or four different choke points to look for opportunities to detonate the right charge at the right time, AND actually help fight the zeds? Even if you did it by putting them behind sealed doors and waiting until you hear one get broken down, you could only do that ONCE per door.

Plus that ability would interfere with the sequential detonation (when you have multiple C4 charges in front of you at the same time), which would mean NOT being able to set up multiple points of explosive defense along the same path. Logistically, I think we're going to find THAT viable far more often than trying to camp multiple points.

 

[Lorkenpeist]

Will C4 replenish from ammo pickups (perhaps just a chance of +1 charge as in KF1)?

Will the C4 "weapon" remain in the slot after the last charge is detonated (so you can pick up more charges)?

Can the C4 be dropped by the owner? And would another player picking it up be able to detonate charges placed by the original owner?


With regard to the detonation options I would also go for detonating all with alt-fire. But another possibility is that alt-fire allows us to disarm and pick up a placed charge when standing close to it (although that kind of dilutes the planning requirement in placement).

Also, what if you die and don't drop your detonator? Or if you sell it?

 

[pie1055]

Maybe you can still shoot the explosive to set it off if you don't want to do it in order.

And whats stopping you guys from throwing C4 down in groups of 2-4 and just replacing them as you need to? Is it too much to ask your team to cover you in a co-op game?

Lastly, I too would like to know what happens to the C4 weapon when you run out of ammo or attempt to drop it. Does it function like the guns or like the pipe bombs of yore?

 

[Rattler]

I would have thought neither, akin to using an SG500 as a berserker. You get the XP for using it, but it's a demo weapon so no gunslinging or demo bonuses when dual wielding as a gunslinger?

See, that'd probably be not-so-viable to use later waves and difficulties, but you cannot deny the badassery that comes from it.

Personally I don't like akimbo weapons except akimbo Beretta 92fs and thats because I am huge John Woo fan lol

 

[CrashFu]

Now I'm wondering how much the demo pistol will weigh, because I am probably going to wind up carrying it off-perk while playing pretty much anything else, lol.

And also if the RPG7 will do top-tier bashing damage (like, kill Trash zeds in one bash); Presumably yes? I mean, the shortcoming of defending yourself against even the most minor threats if they snuck in close was always a hard deterrant against using the LAW for most players in KF1... being able to calmly club stray crawlers to death and get back to lining up high-reward shots will make the weapon way more forgiving to use.

 

[silverlighted]

I don't really care about the ability to detonate all instantly.

What I would like, though I doubt this will happen, is that it would be neat if you could bind specific keys for C4: 1 through 8 ahead of time. If a person were particularly attentive, imagine, you could spread out a bit more while trying to hold a location. Someone could scream on mic/chat, set off the truck/Eiffel/grinder/insert-map-landmark-here, and then you could immediately detonate that specific C4 to back up that player.

 

[Rattler]

I can't remember the name but I remember in some game it was executed this way - you have on screen indicator for every C4 that you placed and you just have to move your aim over the number and detonate - it will blow the C4 that you are aiming for, no matter where it is.

 

[Aleflippy]

No M32? Tripwire...WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!?

No but really,quite honestly... I seriously hope the demo arsenal won't be as expensive so we'll be able to carry a backup weapon as we can't spam anymore. I have to say I'm a bit...disappointed.

But the backblast made my day nevertheless. And the C4 seems very fun to toy with.