But that was very few of the ealier models getting Schurzen.Santini said:
Russians should have two or three T-34-76s and one or two T-34-85s on Arad. ALOT more 76-armed made than 85mm armed T-34s.
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Wow.
- Thread starter Crim
- Start date
Russians should have two or three T-34-76s and one or two T-34-85s on Arad. ALOT more 76-armed made than 85mm armed T-34s.
Incorrect,
There were more t-34/76's built but not like there were only a few /85 versions.
34k T-34/76's
22k t-34/85's.
ANd that's not taking in tanks destroyed so who knows the composition in 1945 ot 1944.
There were more t-34/76's built but not like there were only a few /85 versions.
34k T-34/76's
22k t-34/85's.
ANd that's not taking in tanks destroyed so who knows the composition in 1945 ot 1944.
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It just seems like both the Panther and the T-34 bounce rounds WAY too often. The IS-2, might, too, but it's not nearly as bad as the Panther and T-34.
Angled armor may make a difference, but that difference isn't very noticable when you're firing from less than 100m away. Seeing as spalling isn't modeled in the game (this is excusable, I have no idea how they'd model it realistically), a shot from that range, even if it DID bounce, would probably knock out the tank just because the crew would get slaughtered.
I've formed the conclusion that all the tanks but those two are balanced enough for regular play, with just a minor imbalance towards the Russians. But the Germans get panzerfausts, which evens that small issue out perfectly.
Besides some odd bounces off the side of an IS-2 at around 70 degrees from 50m away in a Panther. That was rather annoying, but it only happened the three times I shot at the guy, and I haven't tried to replicate it.
Bondarevo has pretty much been given to the Axis, now, though, which, considering how Arad is playing, makes me wonder if there'll be ANY 'balanced' tank maps soon. I shudder to think of what it'd be like if the Tiger was on Bondarevo, as it probably should be. Considering, you know, on every other map the Allies get their best armor... but, oh well.
The fact that the Panzer IV and StuG in the game are not either of the most produced models is slightly distressing, of course. If just because the later models (later in this case being highly relative, as in, just a couple of months later) have a better gun, better armor (schurzen!), and, in the case of the StuG G, a machinegun. It's sort of sad that the Tripwire devs say the StuG in the game is a StuG G, even though it exhibits NONE of the traits of a StuG G besides the basic design of the thing.
I'm pretty sure the whole Panzer IV H thing has been beaten in to the ground by now.
I want tanks with the L/48, damnit.
Edit for the post below: Would anyone happen to know if the T-34/IS-2's armor had anything like that, then?
Angled armor may make a difference, but that difference isn't very noticable when you're firing from less than 100m away. Seeing as spalling isn't modeled in the game (this is excusable, I have no idea how they'd model it realistically), a shot from that range, even if it DID bounce, would probably knock out the tank just because the crew would get slaughtered.
I've formed the conclusion that all the tanks but those two are balanced enough for regular play, with just a minor imbalance towards the Russians. But the Germans get panzerfausts, which evens that small issue out perfectly.
Besides some odd bounces off the side of an IS-2 at around 70 degrees from 50m away in a Panther. That was rather annoying, but it only happened the three times I shot at the guy, and I haven't tried to replicate it.
Bondarevo has pretty much been given to the Axis, now, though, which, considering how Arad is playing, makes me wonder if there'll be ANY 'balanced' tank maps soon. I shudder to think of what it'd be like if the Tiger was on Bondarevo, as it probably should be. Considering, you know, on every other map the Allies get their best armor... but, oh well.
The fact that the Panzer IV and StuG in the game are not either of the most produced models is slightly distressing, of course. If just because the later models (later in this case being highly relative, as in, just a couple of months later) have a better gun, better armor (schurzen!), and, in the case of the StuG G, a machinegun. It's sort of sad that the Tripwire devs say the StuG in the game is a StuG G, even though it exhibits NONE of the traits of a StuG G besides the basic design of the thing.
I'm pretty sure the whole Panzer IV H thing has been beaten in to the ground by now.
I want tanks with the L/48, damnit.
Edit for the post below: Would anyone happen to know if the T-34/IS-2's armor had anything like that, then?
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80mm of armor = about 10 mm of anti spall layer. The inner layer tends to do all the flexing and cracking, the back layer tends to warp very little, and the outer layer gets SCARRED.
If you look inside a panther that has taken hits, you will see places where the paint inside has burned away, but very little internal cracking
If you look inside a panther that has taken hits, you will see places where the paint inside has burned away, but very little internal cracking
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Well there's the StuG but that's not really a atank and it's very vulnerable. I've seen the guides say the StuG in the game is an Ausf. G, and then I read they modelled it after the F/8.Crim said:
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Tsoman said:the germans lost the war, lol
I think 60+ years is enough to overcome the 'denial' phase of the grieving process
ha ha, buy uoi know that is not the point of this discussion. accurracy is accurracy.
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SasQuatch said:Hey, bye to you too dear
IRRELEVANT.
The Soviets get Fausts about as much as the germans anyways.
And this is TANK vs TANK combat.. tell me how you can sneak up on a tank in the middle of a field unless the guys in the tanks are newbies.
The T34/85 EASILY outclasses the panzers. So the german army is left with 1 panther, 2 tigers to compete with the 3 Is2s and t34s?
Right.
Seems like YOU weren't awake while writing that.
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Wow...Heler said:
Im sorry to have to say this again but you don't seem to pay attention. I'm well awake and therefore I can tell you the correct number of IS2's on Arad.There are TWO IS2's factories in an active spawn at a time. Not THREE IS2's....
So please stop throwing wrong numbers around.I do agree the PIVF2 is the weakest tank in the lineup. I disagree however where you state that the PIVF2 is EASILY outclassed by the T34/85. It's sure as hell a more fragile tank, but it can still give a nice punch and can penetrate any russian tank out there if it wants to. This can not be said about the T34/76 which is therefore not in the map currently.
Arad is not designed as a pure Tank vs. Tank map. If it was a pure Tank combat map we'd have no other classes then the tank crew classes. It was designed as a tank map with infantry support. Mainly Anti tank infantry.
The PF pickups are only available in the South village, which is on the German side of the map on the German side of the village even. And having a few german anti tank infantry men spawning with panzerfausts ready does mean the germans have an advantage in that area and is very relevant. Especially in the North village (russian side), where the russians don't have PF's (they'd have to run to south village, pick them up and run back to the north village to use them). The german infantry there arrives loaded with Panzerfausts, not even the Anti tank class, but any infantry men that took the effort to stop in their own village to pick some up.
Your 'argument' that the Panzerfausts are worthless because they are useless in the open field is partially correct. You don't take them to an open field, even an idiot like me knows that. You take them into the villages, so that's where you'll find the german anti tank soldiers usually.
And seriously, take your uber IS2 into a PF infested village and see how long you can survive. Now, take a tiger into a PTRD infested village and see how you you survive then. So, it's relevant allright.
Furthermore, I'd like you to follow my findings on testing the map today. You can read about it here: http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?p=138497#post138497
Now, stop sending me to bed like a kid as you did in your first post in this thread. Any coherant thoughts are welcome.
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SasQ is, again, 100% right. (You can't accuse me of dev brownnosing because I criticised them, SasQ included, more than once )
Ever wondered why Russians never produced infantry AT weapon? That's right, their best AT weapon was tank itself. By 44-45 they had billions of tanks (not just any tanks, but excellent ones) hugely outnumbering Germans, and could easily stop any German armored atack with tanks themselves (+ tank destroyers like late SU series). No need for Bazookas, Panzerfausts, etc.
Now if you want realism playing as German, you should be ready to take sea of T-34s with precious little Panthers and PIVs (Tigers were rare as ****) + some PF infantry.
My suggested change for Arad (and Barashka) would be to take away PTRD, take away satchels, take away all BA64 (maybe leaving one), and add even MORE tanks to Ruskies. That would be realism for you.
O.
)Ever wondered why Russians never produced infantry AT weapon? That's right, their best AT weapon was tank itself. By 44-45 they had billions of tanks (not just any tanks, but excellent ones) hugely outnumbering Germans, and could easily stop any German armored atack with tanks themselves (+ tank destroyers like late SU series). No need for Bazookas, Panzerfausts, etc.
Now if you want realism playing as German, you should be ready to take sea of T-34s with precious little Panthers and PIVs (Tigers were rare as ****) + some PF infantry.
My suggested change for Arad (and Barashka) would be to take away PTRD, take away satchels, take away all BA64 (maybe leaving one), and add even MORE tanks to Ruskies. That would be realism for you.
O.
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EvilAmericanMan said:
At the time of the actual Arad battle (late 1944) T-34-85s were more common than T-34-76s. So, something like 1 76 for every 3 85s would be about right.
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Tried the game with new patch.
Not bad at all.
Altough I felt a lota times that the PZ4 is a piece of junk metal.
I admire how germans managed to fight a war with those things againts masses of ij2's and t34/85's
I am pretty satisfied with the current tank system, being that the game is not a tank sim.
But if you allow me to state something quietly
When a tank's "health" turns from white to yellow to red to kaboom.
PLZ don't kall it ub3r roxor armour penetration system.
I like the game, the patch was great, keep up the good work
Not bad at all.
Altough I felt a lota times that the PZ4 is a piece of junk metal.
I admire how germans managed to fight a war with those things againts masses of ij2's and t34/85's
I am pretty satisfied with the current tank system, being that the game is not a tank sim.
But if you allow me to state something quietly
When a tank's "health" turns from white to yellow to red to kaboom.
PLZ don't kall it ub3r roxor armour penetration system.
I like the game, the patch was great, keep up the good work
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I knocked out an IS-2 with one shot from my Tiger at 800m after the patch. I'm satisfied.
And just a word of advice on the PzIVs in game: You HAVE to have at least two people in the tank. A solo tanker cannot use the PzIV all that well. It has to stay mobile or it will die.
And just a word of advice on the PzIVs in game: You HAVE to have at least two people in the tank. A solo tanker cannot use the PzIV all that well. It has to stay mobile or it will die.
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I love the patch. Played both German and Russian Armour and found it to be greatly improved. If you have a problem with the heavy tanks in RO, maybe you need to learn how to use them.
I had both IS2 and a T34/85 sitting in both North and South fields and was having a hoot agains the Germans. Then again the Germans need to stop driving around in circles and exposing their sides/rears to me.
Then again on the other side, learn to angle. The Panzer F2 might get taken out easily but it is still a competent tank and can at least take out the opposition if you know where to fire.
One time at Band Camp, ops I mean on a map playing in a Panzer IVF2, I was bouncing with a T34/85 so I decided to ignor him and take out the other reds either side to him. Lots of fun. I love this game but I still curse a lot as an infantry player
I had both IS2 and a T34/85 sitting in both North and South fields and was having a hoot agains the Germans. Then again the Germans need to stop driving around in circles and exposing their sides/rears to me.
Then again on the other side, learn to angle. The Panzer F2 might get taken out easily but it is still a competent tank and can at least take out the opposition if you know where to fire.
One time at Band Camp, ops I mean on a map playing in a Panzer IVF2, I was bouncing with a T34/85 so I decided to ignor him and take out the other reds either side to him. Lots of fun. I love this game but I still curse a lot as an infantry player
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Hate to break it to you guys but Germany never really had a great medium tank. Don't get me wrong the PzKpfw IV's were good, but they were always equalled by enemy tanks (at least in the east) and not produced in anywhere near the numbers of their rivals.
It was tactics and crew skill which gave Germany's armour its success rather than overwhelming technological or numerical superiority. There was technical superiority in heavies like the Tiger and Panther (which is more a medium-heavy) but even then they had range and reliability limitations which reduced their effectiveness outside of localized conditions.
Sadly crew effectiveness and tactical superiority cannot be 'simulated' by the game, so we are stuck with the reality that a good crew in a T34/85 will beat a good crew in a PIV easily.
In fact something as simple as quality of optics and gunnery (which were of much higher standards in the German army) make a huge difference but also cannot be 'simulated' by the game.
It was tactics and crew skill which gave Germany's armour its success rather than overwhelming technological or numerical superiority. There was technical superiority in heavies like the Tiger and Panther (which is more a medium-heavy) but even then they had range and reliability limitations which reduced their effectiveness outside of localized conditions.
Sadly crew effectiveness and tactical superiority cannot be 'simulated' by the game, so we are stuck with the reality that a good crew in a T34/85 will beat a good crew in a PIV easily.
In fact something as simple as quality of optics and gunnery (which were of much higher standards in the German army) make a huge difference but also cannot be 'simulated' by the game.
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I am not a fan of the instant blowups when structure is dead i would like to see some bailing happening, same 2-3 secs before blow up.
Perhaps when they included crew hits.
Also I would like to see a small cone of fire, as shells are effected slightly by the various elements including their manufacturing, perhaps a cone of up to 1 metre change every 300 metres.
It would make tank combat more realistic rather then the laser ball combat we play now.
Perhaps when they included crew hits.
Also I would like to see a small cone of fire, as shells are effected slightly by the various elements including their manufacturing, perhaps a cone of up to 1 metre change every 300 metres.
It would make tank combat more realistic rather then the laser ball combat we play now.
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