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Wow.

Heinz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 29, 2005
1,804
0
0
New York, USA
played 3 hours of post-patch RO last night. it's great fun. the patch rewards an accurrate tank gunner, and that is fine by me. tank combat is spot on now, and more realistic.

the issue of old german arm or facing off against uber-advanced soviet armor is another issue, and seperate from the patch. it's up to someone to make maps with more realistic tank allotments per year of map and # of tanks produced etc.

as far as where the devs are coming from it's simple. the pro-soviet tank allotment choices are either intentional or accidental. it does not matter which, it is what it is.

now someone take my damn 3rd battle of Kharkov map idea and run with it! last owrds: great patch TWI, THANKS!!!! :D
 

eLWood

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 7, 2006
10
0
0
New York
DirtyRat said:
I would just like to say

WOW!

Some things will never change - people complaining about patches, and then start whinging about what should be in the next patch....

Out of all the multiplayer games I've played, this patch is the best and most significant patch I've ever seen. Congrats to TW for superb support, I think the game has improved tenfold.
Agreed

I fell asleep last night while steam d/l'ed the patch. I woke up around 3 am to discover I was still in front of the computer. Joined Manny's Roost for a quick fight and I thought I was dreaming, or hallucinating. RO has received a major upgrade, and it made a superb game supreme. Cheers
 

Victor_Mdv

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2006
20
0
0
Rameusb5 said:
If Tripwire saw it as necessary to add the IS-2 to their game, fine. But adding the IS-2 without adding SOMETHING on the German side that would be it's equivalent is not so great. There are several options:

Royal Tiger: Personally, I'm against this since it was rather rare, and simply ups the ante on the "uber" crap. I hate the "uber" crap.
Jadpanther: This thing would be able to take out the IS-2 and has insane frontal armor. A good choice, IMHO.
JadTiger: Too uber, IMHO, but would also be applicable.
Elefant: Uber and rare, but since it mainly saw action on the Eastern front, I think it would be acceptable.
I don't undestand why the IS-2 needs to be countered that way.

Panther has by far the best frontal armor in game.
Panther has the same penetration capabilities than the IS-2.
Panther reloads faster than the IS-2
Panther has hull mg. IS-2 doesn't have it.
Panther's commander cupola has the best visibility of all tanks.
Panther is the only tank that has rotable driver periscope.

Best tank in game: Panther. Second IS-2. Third was T34-85, now Tiger.
 

SasQuatch

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 17, 2005
1,010
213
0
Netherlands / USA
Rameusb5 said:
I find this statement extremely disturbing coming from a dev. Instead of setting maps in 1943 where the Germans can dominate, you instead set them in 1944/45 and leave out a bunch of German tanks so the Russians can dominate?

I have NO problems with historical accuracy. I really think there SHOULD be a map or 2 set in 1943 where the Germans have the superior tanks and are on the offence, just like there should be a map or 2 set in 1945 where the Russians get their IS2s and THEY are on the offense.

But on a map where BOTH sides are trying to grab land, the tank balance should be similar. I don't feel that the currently modelled tanks represent an even matchup between the Russians and the Germans.
The post you refer to was ment as a small ironic JOKE. Don't get worked up about it already, lighten up.

Be assured that we are keeping an eye on the balance of the maps.
When the tank damage system was functional during development before it broke, we tested and played those maps extensively, and there was no sign of russians dominating either map overall, so no, we didn't design the maps to be biased towards russians. I'm not sure where you get the idea where we would deliberately try to design unbalanced maps.
If Arad and Barashka show unbalance because of the tank line ups in these mirrorred maps, they will be altered if nessecery.

Btw, i don't find the IS2 a particulary good offense tank, the way I experience playing it is as an extremely good long range support tank in our game.

And as far as the 1943 tank maps go, I do feel we are missing one or 2 maps in that timeframe.
 

Heinz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 29, 2005
1,804
0
0
New York, USA
SasQuatch said:
And as far as the 1943 tank maps go, I do feel we are missing one or 2 maps in that timeframe.
yeah. I talk to anyone who will listen, and say that the 3rd Battle of Kharkov time period (Jan thru March 1943) is a really ripe area for mappers. there's just sooooo much there. wide open tank battles, fluid CA battles, and, lastly, some in-the-heart-of-Kharkov city fighting.

EDIT: forgot to add that rthe period battles then was the 1st and last time that the 3 SS panzer divisions fought as a unified corps. the results were stunning.

fun for all!! :D
 

Tru3Slaughter

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 23, 2006
107
0
0
N.E Phila,Pa.
i just want to say thanks, to tripwire staff for their hard work and great patch. i would suggest others do the same. their are other dev's out there that don't give a rat's arse about their customers, i won't mention names but can you say CodWho? thanks again Tripwire:) :)
 

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
Victor_Mdv said:
I don't undestand why the IS-2 needs to be countered that way.
Panther has by far the best frontal armor in game.
Panther's Frontal Armor: 80@55^
IS-2's Frontal Armor: 120@60^
Panther's Turret Front: 100@Round
IS-2's Turret Front: 90@round

Panther has the same penetration capabilities than the IS-2.
Panther's Penetration: 124@500m@30^
IS-2's Penetraion: 140@500m@30^

Panther reloads faster than the IS-2
Now that one-shot kills can happen, this means a lot less.

Panther has hull mg. IS-2 doesn't have it.
Which for Tank vs Tank combat means nothing. In addition, the IS-2 SHOULD have it's rear-turret MG modelled, but doesn't.

Panther's commander cupola has the best visibility of all tanks.
What?

Panther is the only tank that has rotable driver periscope.
Also, WHAT?

Best tank in game: Panther. Second IS-2. Third was T34-85, now Tiger.
I'll agree that the Tiger is better than the T34-85, because of it's hull armor, but there's no way the Panther is superior to the IS-2. In game or reality.
 

Dax02

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 14, 2006
57
0
0
Germany, near Munich
finnaly sombody has to say it:

The Germans hat better quality and the Russian had a lot more tanks. Some of them where at almost the same level as the german tanks.

But there was one big factor in history:

German crews were real cracks and they knew what they had to do and how to do that. Russian men where also good, but not as good.
Example: A Tiger with a excellent crew is defending a place vs. 5 brand new russian T-34/85 with green crews. That often was the stand of things in 1944. So hte Germans could still blow up some Russian tanks, because of the russian crews weren't trained enough to counter this situaton until finally one of the left tanks kills the tiger. The destroyed Tanks and the killed crews where replaced and the hunt went on and everything was good.

The Problem is, this differences between the knowlegde of the Crews is not there if you play online. The Tanks were equally the same and just a better crew decided to lose or win the fire fight.

This historic fact can't be set up in an online game without destroying any balance.
 

Victor_Mdv

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 13, 2006
20
0
0
Rameusb5, as I said I'm talking about IN GAME tanks, not real life. Download the SDK and check it yourself.
In game the Panther is somewhat better than the IS-2. Period.
 

MoFo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 9, 2006
181
41
0
37
Cleveland, OH
iron-crescendo.net
I am curious as to how I can one shot kill the is2 at a range of over 200m with the pziv-f2 to the frontal armor... I can replicate this. I have also gotten a one hit kill with a 300m away hit to the is2 turret in a pziv-f2. When did the pziv-f2 get upgunned to the status of a panther? I've also had a pziv-f2 take out my is2 at around 500m on arad in 2 hits when I had my tank angled. Yet my 122m round bounced off his very slightly angled tank (<10deg)

You ask me something is borked, you guys might have not changed the armor values but the penetration model isn't working right. At least not in the case I specified above. Though it is funny to note that the SU-76 can withstand a frontal shot from <200m from a pziv-f2. Several shots infact. Maybe the SU-76 is the new IS2 in terms of armor survivability. :rolleyes:
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,819
3,836
113
I could have sworn we knocked down armor on the SU. I'll have the testers go over the tanks again and see if we can find these irregularities guys.
 

MoFo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 9, 2006
181
41
0
37
Cleveland, OH
iron-crescendo.net
Yoshiro said:
I could have sworn we knocked down armor on the SU. I'll have the testers go over the tanks again and see if we can find these irregularities guys.
Hell let me test it for ya, I told you I can replicate it. PM me a time and a server and you can watch as I demonstrate these situations. (preferable around 6edt I'm still at work :p)
 

Heinz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 29, 2005
1,804
0
0
New York, USA
MoFo said:
I am curious as to how I can one shot kill the is2 at a range of over 200m with the pziv-f2 to the frontal armor... I can replicate this. I have also gotten a one hit kill with a 300m away hit to the is2 turret in a pziv-f2. When did the pziv-f2 get upgunned to the status of a panther? I've also had a pziv-f2 take out my is2 at around 500m on arad in 2 hits when I had my tank angled. Yet my 122m round bounced off his very slightly angled tank (<10deg)

You ask me something is borked, you guys might have not changed the armor values but the penetration model isn't working right. At least not in the case I specified above. Though it is funny to note that the SU-76 can withstand a frontal shot from <200m from a pziv-f2. Several shots infact. Maybe the SU-76 is the new IS2 in terms of armor survivability. :rolleyes:
the SU76 should fold like a piece of cheese on a hot Summer day at a BBQ, when it's hit by just about anything, from anywhere.
 

MoFo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 9, 2006
181
41
0
37
Cleveland, OH
iron-crescendo.net
Heinz said:
the SU76 should fold like a piece of cheese on a hot Summer day at a BBQ, when it's hit by just about anything, from anywhere.
Sure doesn't. Most things facing it do. I even had it bounce a tiger shot yesterday but that seems more like a fluke than the norm.
 

Heinz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 29, 2005
1,804
0
0
New York, USA
MoFo said:
Sure doesn't. Most things facing it do. I even had it bounce a tiger shot yesterday but that seems more like a fluke than the norm.
heh, I guess should was the operative word in my post. ;)
 

kabex

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 27, 2006
820
0
0
Mexico
I have hit the SU76 right in the ass and it only gets on fire. No kill.

I think it was with the PZIV on Rakowice. Seriously, right in the ass, almost perfect angle, and it wasn't destroyed.

Also, I saw a clown car just now take a hit from a Panther(I believe, not sure), it was PENETRATED (as in, I heard the penetrating sound, and no round was deflected) and it didn't blow up.

WTF. :(
 

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
Heinz said:
the SU76 should fold like a piece of cheese on a hot Summer day at a BBQ, when it's hit by just about anything, from anywhere.
LOL. Heinz waxes poetic...
 

DarkPa

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 17, 2006
7
0
0
Los Angeles
kabex said:
Also, I saw a clown car just now take a hit from a Panther(I believe, not sure), it was PENETRATED (as in, I heard the penetrating sound, and no round was deflected) and it didn't blow up.

WTF. :(
It wasn't unheard of for an AP round to penetrate all the way through lightly armored targets, even all the way through the turret of some tanks (taking the Commander's kidneys with it, probably) - maybe that's what you saw with the clown car.