Wow.

[Crim]

So the IS-2 can now kill tigers, panthers, PzIVs, and everything the Axis can throw at it in one shot to the front armor. Panzerfausts and tanks cannot kill with shots to the ammo box. Shot trap on the T-34 is still not implemented. Tiger turret traverse speed seems to be even slower, IS-2 turret traverse speed seems to be even faster.

I am underwhelmed.

 

[Varsity]

Don't know which IS/2s you are driving, but they aren't the ones I am.

 

[Ron]

The is2 is weaker now overall trust me i used to be a beast in the is2 now well im not sniff sniff looks like i'll have to rethink my tactics and study those tank sheets.
​

 

[Crim]

It's really not weaker in any way. I just spent quite a bit playing around on an Arad server with my Iron Crescendo friends. Was able to find a way to kill both the Tiger and the Panther in a single shot with the IS-2 from the front. It is easy to replicate, as well.

The IS-2 has become the best tank destroyer in the game, even though that is not what it was for at all.

Sigh.

 

[Yoshiro]

Turret traverse speed did not change. IS 2 should have no problems penitrating Tiger or Panther from the front dead on (especially if it hits the ammo store now)

 

[SasQuatch]

Do you realise the IS2 has a 122 mm long barrel cannon on it's shoulders? You're damn right it can kill about anything if the other tank is not angeling right, from large distances as well. you do realise it has the longest reload time in the tank line up as well right?

The traverse times have not been changed as far as i know. So, that's seems to be in your perception, which is not overjoyious.

We designed the tanks to be close to what they perform like in 'reality'. That means we hardly tinker with individual balance of the weapons.

 

[[TW]Wilsonam]

We haven't touched the IS-2 - it is exactly as it was. Turret rotation speeds haven't been changed. No, we haven't implemented the "shot trap" on the T-34. But we did a load else.

 

[Panzer Meyer]

It's really not weaker in any way. I just spent quite a bit playing around on an Arad server with my Iron Crescendo friends. Was able to find a way to kill both the Tiger and the Panther in a single shot with the IS-2 from the front. It is easy to replicate, as well.

The IS-2 has become the best tank destroyer in the game, even though that is not what it was for at all.

Sigh.

Remember, the distances you are engaging at are not more than 400-500m maybe less. The IS2 gun is very powerfull, 122mm. Of course it will penetrate a Tiger and Panther at those ranges. This is where the Axis need some skilled tank operators, work in teams, and try and ambush the IS2.

 

[Yoshiro]

To sum up our testing on this

I had one of the mappers create a tank range for us.

We lined up tanks at various rangers and shot at them with other tanks head on. We took that data and compared it with all our real world data. If it closely matched up we got it right. What this patch mainly does (expect for a few armor and gun tweaks) and reintroduce penitration which was not working before.

 

[Heinz]

Do you realise the IS2 has a 122 mm long barrel cannon on it's shoulders? You're damn right it can kill about anything if the other tank is not angeling right, from large distances as well. you do realise it has the longest reload time in the tank line up as well right?

The traverse times have not been changed as far as i know. So, that's seems to be in your perception, which is not overjoyious.

We designed the tanks to be close to what they perform like in 'reality'. That means we hardly tinker with individual balance of the weapons.

well, there should just not BE so many high quality russian tanks in the game, vs. the crap quality OLD german tanks in the game, on any given year, on any given map. that may be the issue here.

not going to judge until I play tonight (still at work).

 

[Crim]

And, you know, the fact that we have hideously rare versions of two German tanks (the STUG in the game, and the Panzer IV. Only 175 Panzer IV F2s were produced) versus legions of the best-of-the-best Soviet armor.

The turret traverse may have been my (and everyone else who I was with's) perception. I'll concede that. But the rift between German and Soviet armor has only widened with this patch.

Red Orchestra: Ostfront '41-'45 models all of the pros of Russian tank design, and absolutely none of the cons. The Germans, on the other hand, do not benefit from this apparent bias.

Why, for example, did the devs choose to implement the Panzer IV F2? As previously stated, only 175 were produced. The Panzer IV G debuted at the exact same time. It had 1687 produced. The Panzer IV H, which debuted in 1943 (The F2 and G were in 1942, don't know the month), had production numbers of 3774.

The Panzer IV H is better than the Panzer IV F2 in every conceivable way.

There are more maps with IS-2s in them than there are maps with T-34/76s.

This is disconcerting.

Edit: Also, just to add... The Soviets held trials for a 100mm gun on the IS-2, and for the 122mm. The 100mm performed better in armor penetration, but the 122mm was chosen due to its high explosive payload capabilities. The IS-2 was a break through tank, not a tank killer. It was loaded with far more HE than AP. In fact, during the war, the IS-2 fired 70% HE rounds. Only 30% were AP.

 

[Santini]

At the guy saying no F2's:
I'm sorry, buy you are wrong. While there are some THEORYS floating around that the F2 never really existed, there are three training manuals and multiple production documents that refer to them The G had a simplified turret, and later on, +30mm armor to the front surfaces and schurtzen, and some of them even had the L/48

 

[M.C.Darkness]

Well now we have stronger German tanks to look forward to in future patches.

 

[Santini]

I was there with Crim...
What was once just a minor imbalance is now gonna be a rapefest.
Give us the Pz IV H, the Pz III L/M please, and lower the bounce factor for german munitions

 

[2M|Bivoj]

"The G is the F2 model, simply renamed by the Germans."

this is just half-true. First models of Ausf. G were very similar to F2s, but late models of PzIV G had panzer skirts and longer barrel (F2 and early G had 75mm L43 cannon; late G and H had 75mm L48 cannon)

 

[daschewy]

Most F2's were renamed ausf G once they were tested out. The ausf H models incorporated the side skirts and the longer barreled L/48 gun.

 

[Heinz]

I was there with Crim...
What was once just a minor imbalance is now gonna be a rapefest.
Give us the Pz IV H, the Pz III L/M please, and lower the bounce factor for german munitions

that is very disconcerting.

 

[Yoshiro]

All the maps were playtest with the changes and we saw both sides win about an equal number of times.

 

[Crim]

That has absolutely nothing to do with the quality, quantity and realism of the tanks present in the game.

Edit for the post below me: Re-read what I said. I'm not knocking the game itself. Just the tanks in it. I think it's a great game, really, but the tanks could use some work. If just because a bounced round from 100m away would cut the crew to ribbons due to extensive spalling and the German tanks... well, whatever. I'm not going to rehash what has already been said in this thread.

 

[Musketeer]

Jesus, cut the poor TW staff a break here.

They get pounded for making the armor penetration more realistic and are told the Germans will be slaughterred.

Then they reply that they tested the maps and had an even amount of wins/losses for both sides and are told that has nothing to do with the quality or realism of the game...

Looks like no matter what they do they are screwed!