Wondering the use of machineguns

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Dee0342

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
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All across the Globe
Im starting to wonder the use of machineguns in RO2.
Rarely I see people occupy this class and when they do, they get picked off quite easy by guys using rifles thanks to the new zoom mode.

Ofcourse sometimes people are quite succesfull at using the machinegun from points where they are hard to spot, ( let's say a building with a lot of windows ) but these situations are not always there because the game mainly revolves around close quarter combat.

Another aspect of the game im questioning is the use of machineguns to suppress and the whole idea of suppression.
Is anyone actually really using this instead of aiming for the kill?

Share your thoughts with me :)
 

grothesj2

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 29, 2010
527
155
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I mostly play with the bolt but the last few games I have been trying the DP machine-gun and have been doing ok with it. I mostly use it for interdiction though, getting in a protected spot then shooting people where they have to or are likely to cross an open area.
 

tanaKa

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 8, 2011
23
1
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Clan/unit/team play comes to mind when I think of it. In pubs, everyone wants the kill. In a unit, when your assigned an mg, you'll HOPEFULLY be placed someone where it actually comes to use.

Not to mention the recoil seems a bit weirder than ro1.
 

krylosz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2006
107
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Munich, Germany
I was also wondering why people don't use them. I use them a lot, and don't have a problem getting picked off too often. That also has nothing to do with the zoom, but giving away your position with the tracers. The same happened in RO and DH when you sucked at machinegunning, giving guys too much time to get decent shots off.

IMHO most people tend to not use the MGs properly. The best use is to establish relatively small kill zones, where everyone who sticks his head out gets killed instantly. Preferably blocking the enemy's access to a cap zone.

Many people just set up in relatively open space with bad cover and try to cover a 90 degree angle with their gun. No wonder they get picked off.
 

Demonizer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 28, 2008
34
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I been playing with the MG34 and scoring quite a few kills. The skill is to find a good area to cover, make use of the cover button whilst in deployment, and move to differnt locations every now and again.
 

Formaldehyde

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2006
54
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I liked playing as an MG'er in RO:OST, but RO2 is far more difficult and frustrating. I tend to try to generally suppress areas holding up my side and engage targets of opportunity. This is largely pointless in RO2 due to getting sniped almost immediately by every possible weapon at long distance after opening up (I'm fairly picky about my cover, but nothing seems good enough). It's necessary to displace constantly, which is another opportunity for a quick death. On a good day in RO:OST, I could dominate a good position for a good long stretch, not so in RO2. Given the suppression qualities of a period MG, this needs work to be better depicted.
 
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I. Kant

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 9, 2007
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Yeah, you have to know how to MG. People need to react to asking for ammo (they had problems in RO1, they have them now). Set up at a good spot, but also cherish the added versatility (move when deployed, autodeploy on prone, reload at any stance).
 

luciferintears

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2011
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I havent really been able to successfully use it as area denial or as a suppression tool because of 2 reasons:

1. If you stay in an area long enough to deny enemy access, chances are someone will pick you off.

2. Suppression just doesnt have that much affect or the points incentive

I usually just deploy the machinegun, get 2 kills, pack up and relocate. Im not using it correctly, but thats the only way to do well with it
 

gimpy117

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 6, 2011
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Michigan
well MG can be a good class...the major problem I hate it the mounted ones with super limited traverse...
 

Happy_Toad

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 20, 2011
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As an attack-MG you have 2 problems. If zone where you want to deploy you MG isnt clear you get sniped like 1-2.

1 - You show your head for the first time deploing your big boy.
2 - You show your head for the second time ready to rain fire.... And you already dead, even if you dont know it yet.

And if zone already clear - why bother?


Def MG is OK, exept for enemies will know where you gonna be. But still you have really good chances to kill a 2-3 of them.

But still. Im not a RO1 veteran but i spend a lot of time to Project Reality and ArmA and in my opinion MG should be a support weapon. It should be used against a large groups or as a suppresive tool. Now its like a AT-rifle with 75 round mag. Shoot at semiauto and snipe. Thats all.

Sorry for grammar.
 

Gaizokubanou

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 5, 2011
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I liked playing as an MG'er in RO:OST, but RO2 is far more difficult and frustrating. I tend to try to generally suppress areas holding up my side and engage targets of opportunity. This is largely pointless in RO2 due to getting sniped almost immediately by every possible weapon at long distance after opening up (I'm fairly picky about my cover, but nothing seems good enough). It's necessary to displace constantly, which is another opportunity for a quick death. On a good day in RO:OST, I could dominate a good position for a good long stretch, not so in RO2. Given the suppression qualities of a period MG, this needs work to be better depicted.

You are not too picky about your cover. If your cover is good, you will also have fairly limited vision. You can't have visions of areas on your sides and expect to be hidden.

A good place for MG is where you have a clear view of small area that people like to cross. I say small view because everywhere you can see are spots where enemies can you shoot from. You don't want to have 180 degrees field of view of the battlefield. You want more narrow, focused view where anyone who gets in that view gets killed by you faster than anything they can pull off.

MGs don't need magical suppression effect. It's a gun that's meant to kill, not just some scare show off.

Think of the MGs in this game as fully automatic rifle that can only be used with bipads (which is kinda silly, as irl nothing really prevents you using the ironsight without deploying the bipads).


I usually just deploy the machinegun, get 2 kills, pack up and relocate. Im not using it correctly, but thats the only way to do well with it

Actually that is the correct way to use MG classes in this game. Remember you don't have a tripod with 2 ~ 3 guys feeding you bullets. Your role in this game is that of LMG and you are meant to displace (move away after firing for a bit).
 
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rukqoa

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 7, 2011
70
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It's pretty useful in penetrating walls. Spam it into a room where you think enemies are and they're a goner...
 

Stellar73

Member
Aug 30, 2011
68
4
8
Tampere, Finland
Im starting to wonder the use of machineguns in RO2.
Rarely I see people occupy this class and when they do, they get picked off quite easy by guys using rifles thanks to the new zoom mode.

Ofcourse sometimes people are quite succesfull at using the machinegun from points where they are hard to spot, ( let's say a building with a lot of windows ) but these situations are not always there because the game mainly revolves around close quarter combat.

Another aspect of the game im questioning is the use of machineguns to suppress and the whole idea of suppression.
Is anyone actually really using this instead of aiming for the kill?

Share your thoughts with me :)

I use MG34 a lot and sometimes DP-28, often I can't get MG class as it is full, so you just had bad luck being in servers people don't use it?

Zoom option work also in MG, so I wouldn't say I'm picked easily with rifle guys, you just have to know where deploy it, open windows are often bad choice. You can't be 1st to rush at objectives, it's a support weapon and should be played like one.

What comes to suppressing enemy with "blind fire" I do it sometimes when enemy deploy smoke and clearly tries use it as cover when advancing/changing position, or there's sniper in certain position/window etc. There's a slight problem with this though and that is ammo, as sometimes people running by don't give ammo to you so you need save it for real visuals rather than firing away, also belt size as vanilla MG's are rather small without upgrades, plenty of time I fired suppression only to notice when I'm loading that enemy is front of me.

But yea, I love my MG's :D
 

Stellar73

Member
Aug 30, 2011
68
4
8
Tampere, Finland
Yeah, you have to know how to MG. People need to react to asking for ammo (they had problems in RO1, they have them now). Set up at a good spot, but also cherish the added versatility (move when deployed, autodeploy on prone, reload at any stance).

True, also people can give ammo even you ain't asking it and this is what they should do! So if you see your friendly MG gunner while rushing toward objective, make quick stop and share some love ;)
 

Rak

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 23, 2005
3,539
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Im starting to wonder the use of machineguns in RO2.
Rarely I see people occupy this class and when they do, they get picked off quite easy by guys using rifles thanks to the new zoom mode.

Ofcourse sometimes people are quite succesfull at using the machinegun from points where they are hard to spot, ( let's say a building with a lot of windows ) but these situations are not always there because the game mainly revolves around close quarter combat.

Another aspect of the game im questioning is the use of machineguns to suppress and the whole idea of suppression.
Is anyone actually really using this instead of aiming for the kill?

Share your thoughts with me :)

I have been exlusively playing MG since beta(about 50 hours combined now, I also played exclusively MG in Ostfront too), and the first 10-15 hours were totally painful. Now I'm getting better because I'm finding rifleman proof positions every day. What I've started as a simple reply turned to a giant MG'ing post, so buckle your belts! Here we go:

MG's suffer a lot from super accurate rifleman. %90 of the time you're dead if a rifleman sees you. You cannot outgun them, it only takes an average rifleman 0.5-1 seconds to pop-up and blow your head off. So, you have an area denial weapon you can't use in open areas. As soon as you're noticed you WILL die. It's so easy to get rid of MG's.

This forces you to play stealthily and refrain from firing blindly, only fire short bursts for the kill and displace quickly if you've killed a lot of guys(they'll come for you), you've been heard or your position doesn't allow to stay long(%99 of the time doesn't).

This also makes suppression totally unnecessary, because the game punishes you for revealing yourself and firing long bursts is suicide. During all my playhours, I haven't played MG with suppression in my mind, because it's not as effective as I thought it would be.

Now, this sounds really bad for the MG's right? No. IF you can find a position that has it's flanks covered(the areas you cannot see), and the area you're looking at doesn't have many possible cover(windows, trenches, vegetation and other clutter), and you're covering an area that the other team has to pass to get to the objective, MG's absolutely destroy the other team. The problems is finding these spots and brings me to another point, the maps.

It seems to me that the maps are not designed with MG's in mind. It's really hard to find suitable MG positions so that you'll be a challenge to the other team(in Ostfront I loved when the other team pissed off and teamed up just to get me out of my position) and deny access to an important point I haven't seen a single point where the mapper intended it as a legitimate MG position and I had to painfully search every map for made-up positions. Now some of you may think "Well, there are static MG positions, lots of windows and some trenches in every map!". Then I'll welcome you to the next section(bonus):

Where to take cover in RO2? Firstly let me say, STAY AWAY FROM WINDOWS. Only deploy on windows if you have caught 2-3 people and you are sure you'll get them and displace quickly. Windows are not good positions because while they provide good general sight of the battlefield, they also provide a good sight of you. Let me explain.

Most windows in RO2 look at the battlefield or other windows directly and will provide with you lots of target opportunities, but there's a golden rule of MG to remember; if you want to stay in a MG position(and do well), you HAVE TO have complete control over the area you're covering. Nothing moves without you noticing, nothing pops-up without you noticing. You HAVE TO see every pixel moving so that you can react in time. If you cannot do this in a position, it's a bad position and you'll most likely get killed. This forces you to find positions with limited view, but positions that will restrict enemy from entering an area.

I believe RO2 mappers didn't understand this and usually the obvious MG positions are more suited for regular infantry. Static MG positions are death traps(hence they are always empty), windows are death traps, trenches are death traps. The good positions I've found are prone positions near big objects(to restrict visibility and protect flanks).

TL;DR : The problem with MG usefullness is not the MG's themselves, but the way the maps are created and of course super effective rifleman.

PS: I wish TWI let more people in their tester team(alpha, beta) with years of experience in classes rather than people who frequent their IRC a lot and friends with their staff. Lots of these problems in the game right now could be prevented with sufficient feedback during development.

PS: I can expand and turn this into a full fledged RO2 MG guide if there's interest.
 
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Dee0342

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 14, 2011
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All across the Globe
My problem is that machinegunners need to relocate to good positions the whole time where rifleman can easily peek around the corner, stabilise+zoom and pick you off easily.

In the original RO this wasnt a big problem because not everyone could zoom and stabilising the rifle around corners took more time.
 

I. Kant

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 9, 2007
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I would have upvoted you, Rak, but can't vote on any more threads today. I'll do that tomorrow.
 

vyyye

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 13, 2011
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I've been most effective when I run and gun with them, not even kidding. Sure I can do better sometimes when I get control of some hotspot, but full auto with that penetration? Glorious.

Except the MKB42 replaced that completely.