Will there be a suppression bonus?

[Josef Nader]

Ah, I see form where that "glorifying of war comes", a member of a family full of bloodthristy military nutjobs. JK.

I never said that soldiers are cowards, I just say that they were not fearless killing machines. Anyway, I dont know how It got to the point that I maybe insulted you or your family, if i did, then I apologize, but could we please end this here, we have different opinions on this matter and we started to derail the thread.

Yeah, we got a wee bit off topic.

And my point is basically that yeah, the soldiers are scared, but bravery is being scared and doing it anyway. Nobody ISN'T scared in a battle (if they aren't they're crazy), but soldiers learn to overcome that fear and accomplish their objectives anyway. We were discussing taking out an MG, and my point is simply that yeah, MGs are scary, but getting killed because the MG pinned you down and the enemy riflemen flanked your cover and murdered you while you were helpless to defend yourselves is even scarier. So, you do your best to deal with the MG position and keep the enemy troops from taking advantage of your suppression or you die. It's that simple.

Apology accepted. It just gets a bit touchy to have some anon over the internet directly contradict what my great-grandfather, grandfather, father, and friends who I -know- have significant firsthand experience have told me.

 

[pepihoh]

Yeah, we got a wee bit off topic.
We were discussing taking out an MG, and my point is simply that yeah, MGs are scary, but getting killed because the MG pinned you down and the enemy riflemen flanked your cover and murdered you while you were helpless to defend yourselves is even scarier. So, you do your best to deal with the MG position and keep the enemy troops from taking advantage of your suppression or you die. It's that simple.

I am not saying that you would freeze in the middle of the field just because a mg fired at you, I am saying that you would not want to risk exposing yourself from cover where you are relatively safe. How this now works ingame you can easily and nonchalantly pop up behind cover while under fire and kill the MG in a matter of split second, and that works for most of the weapons, there are no really exchanges of fire, just BOOM and its over. So I think that adding some kinda suppression effect that would affect your aim would force players to be more careful and to encourage them the fire on enemy positions even when they dont have clear sight of the enemy, because in WW2 they would fire horrendous amounts of ammunition without even killing anyone.

 

[Josef Nader]

Right, and what I'm saying is that the suppression effect is the soul-crushing lethality and accuracy of the LMGs when used properly. If you want to get into a 1v1 duel with me while I'm entrenched, I welcome it. I guarantee that I can shoot faster than you, because I don't have to aim as carefully as you do, and because you had to take cover quickly, whereas my position was carefully picked to give me as many advantages as possible.

No, there aren't protracted exchanges of fire, because I'm either killing a target or silent so that his buddies don't hone in on me. You don't exchange fire with an MG. You try to flank it, first and foremost. Failing that, you do as I said, spread out, and try to pick him off while he's shooting at one of your buddies.

I'm just saying, the MG is brutally effective without the need for these mechanics. There's just a steep learning curve to using it right. Now that I have some serious practice under my belt, It's getting to the point where I can move and support my guys a lot more closely without having to rely as heavily on ambush tactics. It's all about choosing a good position and controlling your fire.

 

[Josef Nader]

I just got out of the game, and let me assure you guys that there is -absolutely- no need for a beefed up suppression effect. At all. Period.

I was playing my usual LMG, when an enemy MG'er spotted me and opened up. I was in a really strong position, and I could see his muzzle flash, but the bullets were whizzing close to me. Not only was I getting the greyscale suppression thing, but my gun jumped like there was a tarantula on the end of it my guy was trying to shake off -every time a bullet passed me-. Against the MG-34, it was basically my guy having a seizure trying to fire back at this position.

We basically traded fire and suppressed each other for about 20 seconds before one of his buddies lobbed a stick grenade into my hole and blew me to bits.

Basically, it is -impossible- to line up accurate shots if you're under fire, -especially- from an MG. I managed to suppress him by sheer virtue of rate of fire. If I had a lesser weapon I would -never- have been able to make a dent in him, and the only reason I knew he was suppressed was because he stopped hitting so close to me.

As long as the MG'er is shooting at you, you're basically helpless. If he takes his sights off of you, you still have to deal with greyscale + sway for several seconds, more than enough time for him to reload and open up on you again.

So no, there doesn't need to be a beefed up suppression effect or bonus for suppressing enemies. Try it for yourself and you'll see what I mean.

 

[RojaNNation]

I just got out of the game, and let me assure you guys that there is -absolutely- no need for a beefed up suppression effect. At all. Period.

I was playing my usual LMG, when an enemy MG'er spotted me and opened up. I was in a really strong position, and I could see his muzzle flash, but the bullets were whizzing close to me. Not only was I getting the greyscale suppression thing, but my gun jumped like there was a tarantula on the end of it my guy was trying to shake off -every time a bullet passed me-. Against the MG-34, it was basically my guy having a seizure trying to fire back at this position.

We basically traded fire and suppressed each other for about 20 seconds before one of his buddies lobbed a stick grenade into my hole and blew me to bits.

Basically, it is -impossible- to line up accurate shots if you're under fire, -especially- from an MG. I managed to suppress him by sheer virtue of rate of fire. If I had a lesser weapon I would -never- have been able to make a dent in him, and the only reason I knew he was suppressed was because he stopped hitting so close to me.

As long as the MG'er is shooting at you, you're basically helpless. If he takes his sights off of you, you still have to deal with greyscale + sway for several seconds, more than enough time for him to reload and open up on you again.

So no, there doesn't need to be a beefed up suppression effect or bonus for suppressing enemies. Try it for yourself and you'll see what I mean.

I have to agree with with this, there really isn't a need. This is coming from some one who only plays MG roles as well.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

How this now works ingame you can easily and nonchalantly pop up behind cover while under fire and kill the MG in a matter of split second, and that works for most of the weapons, there are no really exchanges of fire, just BOOM and its over.

I have never seen this happen. If you are under fire from MGer and behind cover, and MGer has any accuracy, you cannot pop up or you'll die instantly. Reason is simple: MGer has you in his ironsight already, while you do not. Works the same with all guns really, except with MG you have most ammo on full auto and accuracy of a rifle.

All these talks about how more suppression effect is needed because of these supposed super pop-up soldiers is misleading since it never happens unless there is an incredible skill gap between two players. I mean MGer has to be sleeping to not hit the guy he has his ironsight dialed in on.

 

[Josef Nader]

I have never seen this happen. If you are under fire from MGer and behind cover, and MGer has any accuracy, you cannot pop up or you'll die instantly. Reason is simple: MGer has you in his ironsight already, while you do not. Works the same with all guns really, except with MG you have most ammo on full auto and accuracy of a rifle.

All these talks about how more suppression effect is needed because of these supposed super pop-up soldiers is misleading since it never happens unless there is an incredible skill gap between two players. I mean MGer has to be sleeping to not hit the guy he has his ironsight dialed in on.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hasn't ever noticed this happen, and who understands the basic idea behind not coming out of cover the exact same spot you went into cover.

If you're getting killed the second you pop out of cover, the problem isn't laser beam rifles, the problem is the GUY ALREADY HAS YOU IN HIS SIGHTS AND IS JUST WAITING TO PULL THE TRIGGER.

The MG is this x50, seeing as how he can dump an enormous volume of fire on you before you can even get your first shot off. An MG'er should never lose a duel with a rifleman, unless he's blind or slow.

 

[Limz]

Agree with this Josef person; no need for more 'artificial' mechanics when there are already many built in ones inherited from game play.

 

[Jippofin]

You're confusing LMGs and MMGs. LMGs could only get off 5 seconds of sustained fire. MMGs could fire indefinitely. The MMGs in HoS pull off this effect nicely.

No, really they couldn't. Two-three belts like that and the barrel would be finished. Physics do not chance when weapon is tripod mounted and MG34 is just as prone to overheat on a tripod as it is on a bipod.

Short bursts should be the method of operation on all machineguns except the water cooled ones, like the Maxim.

 

[Josef Nader]

No, really they couldn't. Two-three belts like that and the barrel would be finished. Physics do not chance when weapon is tripod mounted and MG34 is just as prone to overheat on a tripod as it is on a bipod.

Short bursts should be the method of operation on all machineguns except the water cooled ones, like the Maxim.

I say again, the only thing keeping (at least the German) MMGs from firing indefinitely is the magazine size. They can swap barrels every time one starts to overheat and basically fire as long as they have bullets nearby. A couple of the larger Russian MGs either had water coolers or replaceable barrels.

These guys weren't stupid, they knew how to make an MG they could basically fire until there was nothing left to shoot/shoot at.

 

[Spindle]

I say again, the only thing keeping (at least the German) MMGs from firing indefinitely is the magazine size. They can swap barrels every time one starts to overheat and basically fire as long as they have bullets nearby. A couple of the larger Russian MGs either had water coolers or replaceable barrels.

These guys weren't stupid, they knew how to make an MG they could basically fire until there was nothing left to shoot/shoot at.

Uh so now you can continuously fire

Your mind changes faster than a hooker changes customers.

 

[Josef Nader]

Uh so now you can continuously fire

Your mind changes faster than a hooker changes customers.

FFS.

MEDIUM and HEAVY machine guns are designed for continuous fire. They are manned by teams of 3-6 people, mounted on heavy tripods, and NOT something that a single man can carry around and shoot.

LIGHT machine guns are designed for accurate burst fire. They are manned by a single individual plus a spotter, support collapsible bipods, and are designed for a single man to carry and shoot.

The MG32 is a General Purpose machine gun, meaning that it can be outfitted to behave as both an LMG and an MMG.

In it's MMG role, it fires using a belt, a tripod, and a crew. This would be when it would be necessary to use the barrel change for sustained fire, as you are firing from a solid platform and using a continuous belt feed:

In it's LMG role, it fires from a drum (to keep the guy from getting tangled in the belt while relocating), uses a bipod, and would not fire using sustained bursts due to limited ammo capacity:

There is an enormous bloody difference between the MG34 in these two roles, and it's exactly what I've been saying the whole damn time. Sustained fire machine guns are -not- man-portable affairs. You can't run around with a belt dangling from your gun, and a bipod is not a sturdy enough platform to lay consistent, accurate fire on a target without the recoil throwing you off.

Learn the damn difference.

 

[Spindle]

FFS.

MEDIUM and HEAVY machine guns are designed for continuous fire. They are manned by teams of 3-6 people, mounted on heavy tripods, and NOT something that a single man can carry around and shoot.

LIGHT machine guns are designed for accurate burst fire. They are manned by a single individual plus a spotter, support collapsible bipods, and are designed for a single man to carry and shoot.

The MG32 is a General Purpose machine gun, meaning that it can be outfitted to behave as both an LMG and an MMG.

In it's MMG role, it fires using a belt, a tripod, and a crew. This would be when it would be necessary to use the barrel change for sustained fire, as you are firing from a solid platform and using a continuous belt feed:

In it's LMG role, it fires from a drum (to keep the guy from getting tangled in the belt while relocating), uses a bipod, and would not fire using sustained bursts due to limited ammo capacity:

There is an enormous bloody difference between the MG34 in these two roles, and it's exactly what I've been saying the whole damn time. Sustained fire machine guns are -not- man-portable affairs. You can't run around with a belt dangling from your gun, and a bipod is not a sturdy enough platform to lay consistent, accurate fire on a target without the recoil throwing you off.

Learn the damn difference.

Again with your quik-temper.

I don't know if you know, but this game will have 250 belt mag for the MG 34. Possible for the MG 42 too.

And I just played a match where I perfectly suppressed an enemy grp with firing longer than your "2 sec rule" (which is complete bull). And I'll say it again; it depends on the situation, mate

PS: have you ever played RO 1??

 

[Josef Nader]

Again with your quik-temper.

I don't know if you know, but this game will have 250 belt mag for the MG 34. Possible for the MG 42 too.

And I just played a match where I perfectly suppressed an enemy grp with firing longer than your "2 sec rule" (which is complete bull). And I'll say it again; it depends on the situation, mate

PS: have you ever played RO 1??

I'm aware of the belt, and I'm none to happy about it. It graduates to MMG by sheer virtue of having a belt:

A light machine gun may be defined either by the weapon or by its tactical role. It is used to fire short bursts, usually from a bipod; a sustained-fire mount such as a tripod is a characteristic of a medium machine gun. Some machine guns - notably general purpose machine guns - may be deployed either as a light machine gun or a medium machine gun. As a general rule, if a machine gun is deployed with a bipod it is a light machine gun; if deployed on a tripod it is a medium machine gun, unless it uses ammunition of .50 or 12.7 mm caliber or larger, making it a heavy machine gun. Modern light machine guns often fire smaller-caliber cartridges than medium machine guns, and are usually lighter and more compact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_machine_gun

Yes, you -can- fire an LMG from sustained fire, but it is neither practical or effective. 95% of my kills come from 3-4 round bursts, and the only time I spray is when I get caught in CQC while relocating.

Just because you -can- doesn't mean you -should-.

And yes, I did. Why?

 

[Wrafe]

They would need to add supression points to all weapons then. They have a suppression system that works against all bullets currently.

MG bullets dont suppress any better. You just have more of them.

 

[fakemcfarland]

I wish the MG caused more Suppression that made it difficult to aim. At the very least it should remove the ability to "Shift-zoom" your view till the suppression is gone.

 

[Josef Nader]

I wish the MG caused more Suppression that made it difficult to aim. At the very least it should remove the ability to "Shift-zoom" your view till the suppression is gone.

And I quote:

I just got out of the game, and let me assure you guys that there is -absolutely- no need for a beefed up suppression effect. At all. Period.

I was playing my usual LMG, when an enemy MG'er spotted me and opened up. I was in a really strong position, and I could see his muzzle flash, but the bullets were whizzing close to me. Not only was I getting the greyscale suppression thing, but my gun jumped like there was a tarantula on the end of it my guy was trying to shake off -every time a bullet passed me-. Against the MG-34, it was basically my guy having a seizure trying to fire back at this position.

We basically traded fire and suppressed each other for about 20 seconds before one of his buddies lobbed a stick grenade into my hole and blew me to bits.

Basically, it is -impossible- to line up accurate shots if you're under fire, -especially- from an MG. I managed to suppress him by sheer virtue of rate of fire. If I had a lesser weapon I would -never- have been able to make a dent in him, and the only reason I knew he was suppressed was because he stopped hitting so close to me.

As long as the MG'er is shooting at you, you're basically helpless. If he takes his sights off of you, you still have to deal with greyscale + sway for several seconds, more than enough time for him to reload and open up on you again.

So no, there doesn't need to be a beefed up suppression effect or bonus for suppressing enemies. Try it for yourself and you'll see what I mean.

There is a massive suppression effect as long as you are actively under fire. If he's shooting at YOU, there's no way you're shooting back. If he's shooting near you, you can shoot back because he clearly forgot his glasses at home and can't aim.

 

[Spindle]

I'm aware of the belt, and I'm none to happy about it. It graduates to MMG by sheer virtue of having a belt:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_machine_gun

Yes, you -can- fire an LMG from sustained fire, but it is neither practical or effective. 95% of my kills come from 3-4 round bursts, and the only time I spray is when I get caught in CQC while relocating.

Just because you -can- doesn't mean you -should-.

And yes, I did. Why?

Your arrogance is starting to annoy me, and clearly some other people too. Especially your "my rule is law".
It doesn't mean that you fail killing ppl with sustained fire other people do.

 

[Josef Nader]

Your arrogance is starting to annoy me, and clearly some other people too. Especially your "my rule is law".
It doesn't mean that you fail killing ppl with sustained fire other people do.

Alright mate, whatever you say. If it works for you, great. All I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to spot and eliminate a trigger happy MG'er, especially considering he has to stop and reload every couple of seconds and he only gets 3-4 magazines to do it with.

But yeah, by all means spray like a fire hose.

 

[Jippofin]

FFS.

MEDIUM and HEAVY machine guns are designed for continuous fire. They are manned by teams of 3-6 people, mounted on heavy tripods, and NOT something that a single man can carry around and shoot.

No they are not. Barrels will melt if they fire more than couple of belts in one go. Switching barrels does very little in the long run because they are only two barrels that one can keep switching. No one wants to ruin the most important weapon of the squad as there is no saying when the replacement gun, if ever, will arrive.

Mind you, HMG's heat up even faster due to larger caliber.

Fire discipline is very important with machinguns. Short bursts are the key to success. It doesn't matter if LMG fires from belt (like they often were) or drum or what ever, or if a gun is mounted on a tripod and whatnot. Rifled barrel on a rifle caliber weapon will be toast after few hundreds rounds of continuos fire, HMG's faster. This is, as said, physics.