Yep Welt, you`re right. Thats what I also meaned. It was 78 not 75. Remembered wrong. Darn.
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Why the Univ. Carrier not the T-20?
- Thread starter Nestor Makhno
- Start date
Pfft. EVERYONE does the M2/M3 APC. RO is gonna be DIFFERENT!!
(actually, Forgotten Hope also did the UC. And I'd love to see the M2/M3 included if it was supplied in statistically useful numbers).
There may also be issues in terms of what period in the war the aid came, and whether the particular battle the map is depicting actually used them.
For example, it makes a lot more sense if, even though only 7000 UCs were sent to the USSR, at least 200 of them were used in a single battle that is being depicted in a new official map. Or, if the American stuff only started arriving in 1943/44 and the devs want to focus on earlier war stuff (which I'm all for), it might also make sense to include the UC instead of the M2/M3. I don't know the facts behind use of the equipment in question, though, I'm just positing a theory.
(actually, Forgotten Hope also did the UC. And I'd love to see the M2/M3 included if it was supplied in statistically useful numbers).
There may also be issues in terms of what period in the war the aid came, and whether the particular battle the map is depicting actually used them.
For example, it makes a lot more sense if, even though only 7000 UCs were sent to the USSR, at least 200 of them were used in a single battle that is being depicted in a new official map. Or, if the American stuff only started arriving in 1943/44 and the devs want to focus on earlier war stuff (which I'm all for), it might also make sense to include the UC instead of the M2/M3. I don't know the facts behind use of the equipment in question, though, I'm just positing a theory.
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The big problem with the M2/3 is that it cant be used on the early/mid war maps.
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didn't they get only around 300 m2 halftracks and around 1200 total ;o
atleast according to
http://www.o5m6.de/numbers.html
(an m3a1 could be cool though ;O http://www.o5m6.de/scoutcar.html)
atleast according to
http://www.o5m6.de/numbers.html
(an m3a1 could be cool though ;O http://www.o5m6.de/scoutcar.html)
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So when listing the numbers of tractors destroyed by panzers in an action, we know what they are talking about. Scary opponents.
The guy's sources look pretty solid, taken from both East & West.
And don't forget the 96 UC T16 shipped from the States.
Also, if the UC was made under licence (or just as a rip off) in Russia, then I think it's a great choice for that reason alone.
I can see the UC fitting into Russian manufacturing industry very easily, it is so simple and basic.
The guy's sources look pretty solid, taken from both East & West.
And don't forget the 96 UC T16 shipped from the States.
Also, if the UC was made under licence (or just as a rip off) in Russia, then I think it's a great choice for that reason alone.
I can see the UC fitting into Russian manufacturing industry very easily, it is so simple and basic.
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More than anything, it seems like a bit of a cop-out for what is a more strategically complicated situation. The USSR didn't use APC's to transport infantry (usually). Infantry were transported by truck (as were the infantry from most other nations), and occasionally on the back of a tank during a battle. Implimenting the ability for infantry to ride on tanks, I think, would add a lot more to the game (because it would eliminate the one-man transport, and help keep infantry close to tanks), and it would be more authentic.
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Why the UC and not the T-20? Think about it: in the larger 'scheme of things' we get a truly universally used vehicle that balances out the German halftrack, and developers can go on to other items in future releases now that this base is covered.
The same will apply to the Sherman tank if it's in the works; used by American, British, and Russian forces it will be applicable to many battles and fronts. Likewise, I would imagine that developers might be looking at any number of other widely used German vehicles, and not only a few limited-use models. (I just don't see a whole lot of work being put into releasing an update to include the 'Elefant'; the 'Hetzer' or PzII had much more wartime usage!)
The same will apply to the Sherman tank if it's in the works; used by American, British, and Russian forces it will be applicable to many battles and fronts. Likewise, I would imagine that developers might be looking at any number of other widely used German vehicles, and not only a few limited-use models. (I just don't see a whole lot of work being put into releasing an update to include the 'Elefant'; the 'Hetzer' or PzII had much more wartime usage!)
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lend lease needed to be mentioned...
i'd better see m3 halftrack, as that bren carrier is nonsense
and even better would be ZIS truck...
why everything should be armored? it would be used just as a transport, and being unarmored should make russians use it wisely not to make germans easily destroy it
still cant understand, surprised and upset with that bren (mistyped it for the 1st time as "bred" - nonsense in russian)
i'd better see m3 halftrack, as that bren carrier is nonsense
and even better would be ZIS truck...
why everything should be armored? it would be used just as a transport, and being unarmored should make russians use it wisely not to make germans easily destroy it
still cant understand, surprised and upset with that bren (mistyped it for the 1st time as "bred" - nonsense in russian)
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let's have fun with geman tank with the zis30 (57mm zis2 on a t20) at the battle for moscow.
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lol...russians used to retreat making ambushes when defending Moscow...
destroying first tank of the column retreated waiting for the convoy to come to other position, i dont remeber if they left their guns when retreating or not
sad there's no antitank artillery in ro
destroying first tank of the column retreated waiting for the convoy to come to other position, i dont remeber if they left their guns when retreating or not
sad there's no antitank artillery in ro
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Oops, you're right. For some reason I saw 1875 and immediately thought that it was the fameous French 75mm gun...
As if they only made it 75mm because it was 1875. To bad they didn't wait until 1890 and make a 90mm gun!
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Oh yeah, I remember that one from the Finnwars mod for BF1942, it also had an very large box to stay safe from rain.
But yes, this was more an vehicle to drive artillery and other large guns around.
http://www.pkroger.org/sfs/mambo/images/stories/fw/rend/komso.jpg
Good God!!!
Look at the silhouette on that thing. You'd see it coming from miles away behind hills!
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They were actually alot different. It was more similar to the 250 if you want to compare them.
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Trucks would definitely be nice to have- larger carrying capacity and all that (OTOH, just how much capacity do you NEED when you're limited to 16 bodies per side?), but another factor should be considered in the argument against including trucks: the terrain and off-road performance.
Trucks were generally not a cross-country transport favorite; they were more or less bound to the road system where their speed could be used. Cross-country performance of trucks is even worse than that of halftracks, I believe.
SO, in-game, I suppose the consideration on trucks would be whether or not to allow them a higher 'road speed' (meaning more demands on the game engine and servers) or just give them a universal top speed just like it seems every other vehicle has, taking into account hills, etc., of course. Since road surfaces don't seem to make much difference in the game, if at all, on a vehicle's potential speed, I don't see any advantage to having a truck over a halftrack. I mean, in two German halftracks you can carry the entire team- at least somewhat protected- so why would you need any more carrying ability? Granted, the Soviets don't yet have this capacity (the UC approaches it) but you see my point. If trucks gave troops the ability to fire FROM the vehicle, that would bring an entirely different argument for them altogether; for RO purposes however, I would sooner see troops have the ability to ride (and shoot from) tanks than for developers to spend time building a truck model of marginal game value (until the number of players increases to about double what we an use presently).
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