Why RO2 'failed'

[Grobut]

It's a bit more complicated. I understand and agree with you, but...

I don't think that current modes are really separated from each other - they have a few functions you can enable and disable (like HUD), but mechanic you use in both of them remains the same. Changing in-game mechanic for one will probably change mechanic for all of them (I mean movement, aim and so on).

That's why I think a completely new mod(s) should be added - as the official one too - to prevent messing two different game modes with each other if they are indeed linked together. It is more of a technical problem than anything else for me. I wait for one mod to make shooting more realistic (not ROOst, but not RO2 either) myself.

Correct me if I am mistaken somewhere.

Oh no question about that, the way the game is set up right now, the two modes are joined at the hip, John basically just threw togeather the "Realism" mode a few days before the game released, it is for all intents and purposes the exact same game-mode using the exact same codebase, the exact same weapon-parent class, the same weapon code, the same player-controller class, which is why they are identical in the first place.

But it does not have to be that way, there is no technical limitation or problem that prevents them changing this, they absolute can sepperate the modes, make them use entirely different player and weapon code that can be tweaked and altered without affecting the other.

And it's not even hard, i am a novice at Uscript, but even i could code this, it's just a simple matter of making duplicate gametypes that call on different player-controller classes (which again would be a simple duplicate job that you'd just need to tweak), and either making duplicate weapon classes, or even modifying them by means of mutation or subset values that can be called upon.


What would make it hard is dealing with class limits and default weapon avalibillity, because TWI decided to hardcode this info into the maps, which was allways a bad choice as it is the least flexible way they could possibly do it, and they really should change that, class avalibillity both could and should be handled via the gametype class or via mutation, and this would even allow server admins to tweak it to their liking, which would be a huge bonus.


None of this needs to be a problem, all of this could be done, and it's not even a large workload, it's quite basic gametype creation, player-controller tweaking and weapon duplication, the sort that UT engine modders and developers should be no stranger to.

But we need to get TWI onboard with it, because right now i don't think they are, i think they are stuck in thinking about the game as it was designed, rather than thinking of how it could become something more if they did things a differen't and more flexible way.

But this is going to be important to all of us, they say they are changing something about the gameplay based on community feedback, though exactly what that is we do not know, but if they don't fix this "joined at the hip" codebase they have going now, it's going to be a problem regardless of what they change, if they make any changes twords what the roosters would like, then the new crowd is likely to be unhappy with thouse changes, and if they decide to change it more twords what the new crowd wants, they could easilly lose what roosters they have left.


This needs to be solved, or TWI will be damned if they do and damned if they don't nomatter what direction they go, because this is a split community now, the way TWI decided to market the game has seen to that, it does not have homogenous wants and needs, and there is no one-size-fits-all solutions that will work. Aslong as the game does not support genuinly different modes of play, somebody is going to get the short end of the stick nomatter what TWI changes in the future, and you (you beeing whomever reads this) could be the next in line for disappointment, something is getting changed, but to what?

 

[dogbadger]

That's what tripwire needs.... more new players who enjoy the game as it is, so they can quickly flush the rest of the self-entitled RO1 Vets out into a distant memory.

It appears they were a distant memory at the point RO2 was released so why propose it now?

 

[Tak]

A damn fine post, Grobut. Your closing paragraph I think sums up the community's angst nicely.

Where are you aiming to take us, Tripwire? We want to love you, don't push us away /creepyhug

 

[Spindle]

If RO1 was so realistic, why did all players go away from that game?

What kind of argument is that?

CoD: MW was soo good, why did they go to MW2? :/

 

[DAT]

Us RO old timers are laughing at most of you on here and these silly threads about realism nots and haves and such. RO2 is just a new path. Do you really think they would have created RO1 on just a new graphics engine?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Us RO old timers are laughing at most of you on here and these silly threads about realism nots and haves and such. RO2 is just a new path. Do you really think they would have created RO1 on just a new graphics engine?

No

... some of us think that they would have given us approximately the same gameplay on the newer engine along with those things such as mantling and the cover system and better mg deploying among other things. Don't get me wrong, TWI did a lot of things right with better animations and features (such as the above) to make it more realistic in many ways, but then added 'stuff' that ended up watering the whole thing down.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

You make good points but it is tiring to read the same things from the same people...... over and over and over again in thread after thread.

As I said, enough is enough. The repetitive negativity is wearing thin.

Personally? I am enjoying RO2... and play every day.

^ This.

I'm pretty sick and tired of the same spammed complaints and garbage from the same clowns which are constantly dragged around from thread to thread.... I've tried to be constructive with suggesting ways of making increased sway, recoil and stamina changes which would possibly meet the demands of these people, while not completely screwing up the game, and a bunch of other things to try and keep things calm and mature in here..... but one can only be so patient for so long and when those same clowns keep tracking every post you make in the forums just to down vote them regardless of what the topic is, and when they can't actually add to the conversation in a "Constructive" manner as some here claim they are..... and when they can't even refute or debate a topic or post that makes a shred of sense & just rely back to the down voting..... I'll dish out what they give 10 fold.

Yet I'm the bad guy...... fair enough, I guess I'll play that role if some in here want me to.

Thus, Every single time more of this same spammish crap pops up, I'll be right there to counter, oppose and refute.

No more cooperation from me.... it's on like Donkey Kong.

(and he used to be such a friendly fellow)

 

[Tak]

I <3 you Prax, you knight in shining khaki (and/or whatever that green the German's used is called...) you.

If you're the bad guy, this forum and game can just go die in a ditch.

 

[MtnMan01]

I'm pretty sick and tired of the same spammed complaints and garbage from the same clowns which are constantly dragged around from thread to thread....

This^^^

 

[cucamonster]

Just played OST with 6 people in a server and was more fun then RO2 with 64 players.

Honestly TWI, what the heck were you thinking ?

 

[Tak]

Just played OST with 6 people in a server and was more fun then RO2 with 64 players.

Honestly TWI, what the heck were you thinking ?

I just played RO2 with 10 people, and I'm still smiling from how much fun we all had.

OH GOD! A DIFFERENT OPINION! AHH! Alert the ROOSTers!

 

[mowskwoz]

Yo momma so fat, she jumped up in the air and got stuck.

 

[Tak]

Yo momma so fat, she jumped up in the air and got stuck.

D: but all those people, they need to breath! I never took my mother for a murderer

 

[ButchCassidy]

Oh dear..This thread is turning into a bit of a mess..

There are some things being said that are not entirely true and some that are not entirely accurate.

TWI were never going to make a carbon copy of RO1 with better graphics.
There was a beta that gave people an opportunity to play the game 2 weeks before its official release and it was quite clear from that beta that RO2 was not a re-skinned RO1.
If the game was not for you than that was the time to cancel your order.

Yes the drop in player numbers was and is disappointing but hardly surprising given the release date and what followed namely BF3, MW3 and the surprise hit of the year skyrim which has broken every Steam record for player numbers.

Will player number increase..I believe they will steadily grow to something around 3/4000 once all the new content, free weekends and reduced pricing begins to kick in next year.
A game with an SDK can usually survive much longer than a game without it because of new content provided by talented map makers and modders.

Will TWI change things - Yes they will but not at the expense of changing the game radically.
Realism mode will probably become tougher with the addition of server side switches to allow servers to stay ranked but provide a bigger challenge to players.
I personally don't think the standard mode should or will be touched.

As a commercial enterprise RO2 has been a huge success story for TWI.
As a learning curve on how to release a game they have learnt a great deal and will undoubtly not repeat the mistakes made with RO2's release.

For those who think TWI don't care or are not listening or have a "we got your money so bug off" attitude I would say think again.
They have not run away to hide under some rock, it's not their way.
They will not be asking players to purchase new content nor stop supporting RO2 because a new version of the game will be out in 10 months unlike other developers.
They are actively patching the game and working on new content as we have all seen and heard.
I see many posts demanding this or that be changed.
I see no problem in making a request for changes but I do see problems with the expectations of those who make such requests.

Some will simply not happen others will happen and others are being considered.
But the expectation that your request is so "obviously right" for the game is something I find more than a little presumptious.
RO2 was a game that TWI always wanted to make it is the way it is because that is how TWI envisaged the game from concept.
Expecting them to change it radically is both extemely unlikely and nieve.

Repeated calls for "make it like RO1" will continue to be ignored because RO2 is not supposed to be a re-skinned RO1.
I continually see people posting who do nothing but criticize the game that they say they no longer play..And will not play until their "obviously right" change to the game has been made.

Very strange..And entirely ilogical..Why bother posting at all about something you publically say you no longer care about or even play, simply move on and play something else..

God knows there are plenty of other games out there..They won't be as well supported but hey you can't have everything..

 

[tonton-bob]

This needs to be solved, or TWI will be damned if they do and damned if they don't nomatter what direction they go, because this is a split community now, the way TWI decided to market the game has seen to that, it does not have homogenous wants and needs, and there is no one-size-fits-all solutions that will work. Aslong as the game does not support genuinly different modes of play, somebody is going to get the short end of the stick nomatter what TWI changes in the future, and you (you beeing whomever reads this) could be the next in line for disappointment, something is getting changed, but to what?

This is exactly why I never liked the "you can edit it out with server setttings" idea.
If the game had been completely polished at release then it would have been able to sustain such a weak policy.
Now that you barely have a 1 000 players at best, it is not possible to keep a split like this.

They have to make the decisions they never wanted to make.

 

[HarrY89]

Will TWI change things - Yes they will but not at the expense of changing the game radically.
Realism mode will probably become tougher with the addition of server side switches to allow servers to stay ranked but provide a bigger challenge to players.

I'm Glad someone has got it!

Tripwire are awesome, they will try and make RO2 cater for both crowds and knoing their track record, do it well. People just need to give Ro2 some time and some growing room. Then It'll really start to shine!

(Sub note)
When RO1 launched on steam it was met with some very harsh criticisms as well, some even more harder than what people have given RO2.

All we need to give Tripwire is time gents!

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I just played RO2 with 10 people, and I'm still smiling from how much fun we all had.

OH GOD! A DIFFERENT OPINION! AHH! Alert the ROOSTers!

lol.... I'd vote you up, but I used them all already for the day.... maybe tomorrow.

 

[defektive]

Repeated calls for "make it like RO1" will continue to be ignored because RO2 is not supposed to be a re-skinned RO1.

This kind of binary thinking annoys me and I'm seeing it crop up more frequently within these fora; it's merely a transparent debating tactic used in a throw-away attempt to discredit the game's detractors. It's only one step shy of constructing a straw man argument, but it’s still every bit as fallacious.

There does happen to be a middle ground and no-one is seriously asking for a re-skinned RO1. Support the game’s current decisions if you like them but don’t resort to insulting entire sub-sets of the remaining player base (as the now deeply embittered Praxius has taken to doing), or continually trot out fallacies in the name of rebuttal, when suggestions are made that perhaps, just perhaps, RO2 isn’t quite what it should have been. No-one wants to take your Relaxed Realism or [all-of-two-day’s-work]Realism game modes away from you, and nor will they be. If RO2 is going to deliver the hardcore tactical shooter that the majority of its buyers thought, and in a number of cases were even told, they were going to get then it will most likely be game modes in addition to what’s already provided. So take seat and calm down a bit.

If you’re happy with RO2 as it is now then without any hint of insincerity that’s wonderful for you -- I don’t dislike it per se, but it’s definitely not what I was told and repeated assured I was getting -- but realise that there are a great many more players who aren’t happy with it. Some may even feel that they have been mislead by a duplicitous marketing strategy employed to promote the game (on the forums it was touted as being a hardcore tactical shooter yet out in the wild it was pushed to appeal to the BF/MW crowd) whereas others evidently feel that TWI have entirely turned their back on the RO:O community in favour of instead attracting the notoriously fickle and fleeting ‘accessible’ demographic (and true to description they’ve already bu99ered off). As passionate as some arguments have been, from all groups of players, I honestly don’t think that anyone wants to remove styles of play from the game, they only want to see what may be perceived as being glaring omissions being added to it.

History has now proven that a hardcore tactical game play philosophy is no happy bedfellow to an accessible game play philosophy, and I expect that has been a hard lesson for TWI to learn. Some will no doubt say that such a blend was never going to work, but until someone tried it no-one really knew for certain. Okay, so it didn’t work; let’s suck it down and move on. That said, all is not lost and the experiment doesn’t necessarily have to be junked: just because the two game play philosophies are diametrically opposed and will never mix to the satisfaction of both kinds of player, there is nothing to say that these two factions can’t co-exist in the form of genuinely discreet game modes. (Protip: two days work on a ‘Realism’ mode is not what anyone who gives two hoots about hardcore gaming would call due and respectful attention to detail.) Personally, I hope that TWI are big enough to realise this and do indeed build in a solid Realism game mode that ticks as many boxes as possible – god knows there have been a wealth of fine suggestions made to this end over the last few months.

Sermon over with. Now go in peace, my children. And please give generously on your way out – the church needs a new roof.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Logical and respective response...

Well said

 

[Mike_Nomad]

History has also proven;

Nitpickers can in due time, drag down RO2 simply by making certain they remain "most annoying". Eventually, they can drive many players and forum participants away with their incessant negative moaning and groaning.

Honestly, which is worse is unknown;

• those who harangue, lament and threaten if they don't get their own way
• those who pick the same nits over and over again
• those who continually start new "gripe threads" of same old topics
• those who feel they are always right and everyone else is always wrong
• those who, if disagreed with, will either "pick up their marbles and split" or debate 'till they're blue in the face.

They're ROYAL PIA's who seem to do their best to make everyone else miserable in one way or another.

The bottom line is; If you simply ignore them, its like ignoring skin cancer - ignore it long enough and YOU go away.
​

TWI is well aware of what's needed to enhance RO2. Of course, if there's something desired, present your suggestion in the appropriate section and please, do so respectfully.