Why RO2 'failed'
- Thread starter Raneman
- Start date
I try to get into the cap zone. I take a few steps out of the spawn and get gunned down by the MG.
I try to take cover, dart to towards the crater, MG.
For some reason, I can't see the muzzle flash even with bloom enabled, so there is no way I can spot where he is.
Or if the maps are close quarter combat type, all I end up doing is bayo charge. Don't really like doing that either.
Other than that, I just get bored after a few minutes.
Edit: Forgot about this part.
If I come face to face with PPSH, I die no matter the fact that I aimed and fired a rifle round at the guy as soon as he started shooting.
Blame it on the lag or not, it's not fun.
I try to take cover, dart to towards the crater, MG.
For some reason, I can't see the muzzle flash even with bloom enabled, so there is no way I can spot where he is.
Or if the maps are close quarter combat type, all I end up doing is bayo charge. Don't really like doing that either.
Other than that, I just get bored after a few minutes.
Edit: Forgot about this part.
If I come face to face with PPSH, I die no matter the fact that I aimed and fired a rifle round at the guy as soon as he started shooting.
Blame it on the lag or not, it's not fun.
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5km/h is an athlete? Really now? My 50-something year old mom can run that fast for twenty minutes!
Grain elevator as german side riflemen right at start to cap A ? I give u a tip if u play again GE as rifleman . What i do as rifleman right at start when maps starts i try to find as fast as possibel a good spot to cover some windows from GE and u will see them how russian run the stairs and go to windows and rememeber 1 bullet 1 one kill . Its rly important that u not miss . Ofc u can but try not to
And also if u leave the first spwan from A there is tank btw A and ur spwan and also next to ur tank a tree use the tree as cover and move slowly dont do fast movements and watch onle one side of windows and then the next and u can pick up alot of russians form the windows . If u got spotted dont try to return fire and wait til ur guys spwan so u have better chance to find shooter and kill him . And as rifleman u are not able to cover multiplie targets ( when u are on atker side ofc ) so u should focus on small targets for example Ge not all windows just a row and then u move slowly to the next . And about muzzle flaze idk if the light plays a role . In dark room u can see muzzle flash but if the machine gunner is in the light is harder to see but also not neccesary . On fallen fighter i can see every machine gun fire from the buildings . I think it depends also what colour has background if its dark i mean alot shadows then u will see it if its bright u wont notice it much bcs u can see the gunner too .
U should try to play rifleman more as supporter / defender its not worth to try to capture zones special when zones are inside buildings like Commiar house north south / sab house . . . I never try to cap with a rifle capzones that are in buildings . Defend from a building yes but capping a building with rifle no go for me only if team needs more men then i assault ofc but i try to get first smg if not then bayo
And rly important is to learn the maps , enemy movement , enemy mg spots . . . There are great spots for rifleman on every map . For example commisar house as russian rifleman . When ur team got E and next cap is F and H there will be alot german machine gunners that cover F from the windows of G and from D u can take them out all without getting spot fast . I hope i could help u .
How you define "fun" is subjective. However, a specific portion of gamers are looking to be immersed and experience a specific event they aren't able to otherwise. If they feel immersed and gain the experience they are looking for, then yeah, I'm sure they will say it was fun. But it's no different from why people read books and watch movies and play Dungeons and Dragons: to experience something they are unable to obtain in their present condition.
Well it seems to get progresivly worse for me.
Up untill 4 weeks ago when I last played I had a constant FPS of 66 and relatively little problems with bugs unless I used my headphones which would let the sound cut out.
I just started it up again and in about 10minutes I fall trough the map on spawning, there seems to be some issues where you cant ads when your proning and performance with exactly the same settings than before is now at 40-55fps with a system that has plenty of juice to run this.
Up untill 4 weeks ago when I last played I had a constant FPS of 66 and relatively little problems with bugs unless I used my headphones which would let the sound cut out.
I just started it up again and in about 10minutes I fall trough the map on spawning, there seems to be some issues where you cant ads when your proning and performance with exactly the same settings than before is now at 40-55fps with a system that has plenty of juice to run this.
A very great explanation of what bothers me in RO 2.
Yes, I do know that Stalingrad was a lot of close-quarter combat. And I also don't mind playing it if it was portrayed realistically.
Run'n'gun machinegunners with Nike shoes, being able to raise their MG34 within a second after sprinting up the stairs is not what I consider to be realistic.
I read several books about Stalingrad, damn, my grandfather even fought their at the beginning of the battle. I am very sure that no soldier who cared for his life would run into an enemy occupied room and hoping to take out 3 guys with an MP 40. After all they didn't respawn...
Currently, I don't see many assaults/rifleman entering a room, first dropping in a nade or two to clear the room as much as possible. They either run with their MP 40/PPSH and press fire, quickly moving around their gun, or if they are a riflman, prepare for stabbing because close hit detection seems off and somehow the animation makes stabbing so easy.
My theory on why this behaviour is used in RO 2, but not in RO 1 and also not in reality is, because death is simply not hurting players. In RO 1, it could be a pain in the *** to be killed, when you knew that it will take you quite some time to reach the front again. People were more aware that death could lay in every window on their approach to the room they just have been killed in 2 minutes ago.
Combine this "longer time to reach the action and deaths being more hurting than in RO 2" with the "Sway-argument" on the forums, you will probably understand why many people defend the Sway system of RO 1. You simply had to learn how to handle the sway. It was YOUR skill to handle a rifle properly to hipshoot, or aim a ppsh well enough to get confidence on run'n'gun playstyle. And often enough, it didn't matter how well you can pull this off, because there was someone who was just as good with a rifle, taking you down from the window opposite side.
In RO 2, using a ppsh in Apartments or Barracks is almost "god-like", because the suppression system even gives assaults another advantage: suppression! In RO 1, I was naturally scared hearing a ppsh going off close to me (like in another room). I knew that if that guy enters this room, I probably only have 1 shot that determines if I live or die.
In RO 2 again, the suppression effect is it making almost impossible for me to fight the odds of survival, because those bullets that naturally suppress me as a real person, also affect my avatar getting additionally scared, portrayed by the picture losing color and getting blurry.
If the maps were larger and the way to the action was longer, people would feel the pain of death in RO again and would act differently. I am 100% convinced of this. If it was ME as a real-life person who needs to learn how to handle the ppsh properly, my kills with it would be satisfying again. Right now, I feel that many times in close combat, my bad ping killed me. And I am not satisfied with running into a room with 5 russian rifleman at the window and I can wipe them out in 3 seconds.
In my eyes, RO 2 is very close to give this feeling if it was just for some of the minor motorics being rethought.
The OP is right. I wanted a Red Orchestra 2 that was more similar to Red Orchestra 1.
I wish there was a big enough player based for realism mods, but I doubt any of the large mod teams will actually release something.
I wish there was a big enough player based for realism mods, but I doubt any of the large mod teams will actually release something.
There's more to it than big maps.
Besides, big maps wont work if there's still a lockdown timer. Other issues is the players movements which have become a lot more twitchy. You run, sprint and turn twitchy. The weapons have no feel of weight to them. They either need high weapon sway or as a more realistic option: an aiming dead and float zone. It makes the weapons behave more natural and there will be a learning curve for them. Remove the skillpoints, perks, and unlocks. Remove the unlocks. Re-work the Mkb. Remove tactical view since It'sa way to handy. The bandaging system may also be improved or removed completely. The command system from RO ost should also be implemented agian not replacing the old though - it works great as a quick command radial.
In order to make the arcade more appealing there is first of a need of a crosshair. No crosshair no fun. A need for way more unlocks and perks. The players movement has to be speeded up. Ability to strafe sideways while shooting precise is a must. Removal of the bandaging is also quite important. It could be replaced with a autohealing feature. I also think that most maps should be smaller and more focused on close combat. Some maps could be bigger in order to more efficienty compete with BF aswell. The weapons has to be easier to use aswell. Less recoil and less sway. The players need to be able to take a lot more damage. Maybe 2-3 bolt action shots to kill. Speeding up the reload time and aiming down the sight will make it more balanced. The game also need some kind of updated XP system. Perks for the ability to sprint faster, gain more stamina, take more damage, shooter more precise etcetc. should also be added. Achievements is also really important.
I also think that a mode for the current RO2 niche audience is needed. So one of the modes could leave the game as it is right now. Otherwise the current audience may leave the game? I don't know.
There is a lot of hard work if they want the game to appeal to the mainstream, the roosters, the arma community, and their new RO2 audience. So they kinda have to make two diffrent games in one.
Besides, big maps wont work if there's still a lockdown timer. Other issues is the players movements which have become a lot more twitchy. You run, sprint and turn twitchy. The weapons have no feel of weight to them. They either need high weapon sway or as a more realistic option: an aiming dead and float zone. It makes the weapons behave more natural and there will be a learning curve for them. Remove the skillpoints, perks, and unlocks. Remove the unlocks. Re-work the Mkb. Remove tactical view since It'sa way to handy. The bandaging system may also be improved or removed completely. The command system from RO ost should also be implemented agian not replacing the old though - it works great as a quick command radial.
In order to make the arcade more appealing there is first of a need of a crosshair. No crosshair no fun. A need for way more unlocks and perks. The players movement has to be speeded up. Ability to strafe sideways while shooting precise is a must. Removal of the bandaging is also quite important. It could be replaced with a autohealing feature. I also think that most maps should be smaller and more focused on close combat. Some maps could be bigger in order to more efficienty compete with BF aswell. The weapons has to be easier to use aswell. Less recoil and less sway. The players need to be able to take a lot more damage. Maybe 2-3 bolt action shots to kill. Speeding up the reload time and aiming down the sight will make it more balanced. The game also need some kind of updated XP system. Perks for the ability to sprint faster, gain more stamina, take more damage, shooter more precise etcetc. should also be added. Achievements is also really important.
I also think that a mode for the current RO2 niche audience is needed. So one of the modes could leave the game as it is right now. Otherwise the current audience may leave the game? I don't know.
There is a lot of hard work if they want the game to appeal to the mainstream, the roosters, the arma community, and their new RO2 audience. So they kinda have to make two diffrent games in one.
I'm pretty sure the big 3 will release, they have put in to much work allready to abandon it, what with starting even before the game was out.
The real question is, will there be enough players to get them past Beta 1.0? I woulden't expect them to continue work on it if their releases aren't met with players.
The small mods are far more questionalble, maps and mutators, thease things generally do not thrive in tiny communities.
Rising Storm will be.... interesting aswell, since the RS team has not been given free reign to make their mod as they see fit, beeing slated as an expansion from the very start, it's going to have all the Ro2 trappings, including a progression system.
Yeahhh... that kinda curbs my enthusiasm for it, or rather, it has outright killed it for now.
While I am looking forward to all the mods, it really is Iron Europe that has me the most hooked. For one its a very interesting setting, two its the one less likely to have spamming of repeating weapons, and three I am guessing the least likely to follow the extras of ROHOS that were added that I don't care for. I'm really going out on a limb with that last one, but I can hope
Oooo, some WWI action!
Nice, thanks for mentioning that Moe - I hadn't spotted it before. I remember being interested in a UT2K* WWI mod years ago, but I lost interest in FPS games for a while and never did keep up with it.
Damn, I didn't know you were related to someone who fought at Stalingrad, Sensemann! :IS2:
Well, I wish I was having more of your experience--because despite having half of your hours I could have taken fifty screenshots of Rambo-ing MGs... As for covering fields of fire... what with penetration, pinpoint accuracy, and zoom, MGs are quite outclassed by rifles at the moment.
And in response to a lot of people who put down those asking for more historical/realistic features, what we want isn't a 100% super accurate 1 life/map simulator. We want an immersive WW2 tactical shooter. IMMERSIVE. TACTICAL. That's what we were promised, but not all of it was delivered. Some--maybe a lot of it--was, but not enough to seal the deal. That can be fixed, though, and I'm confident it will be. Eventually.
--There are tactical elements--checking ammunition, setting sights, suppression... along with most of what was fundamental in Ostfront.
--And there are REALLY immersive elements--the beautiful maps, haunting music, weapon models and animations (beautiful animations, really--I often go into practice mode and shoot for hours instead of playing MP these days), uniforms, sound effects, voice acting, lighting effects...
But much of that is overshadowed by a few minor issues. Minor ones, really. A few tweaks, and I daresay we'll see a significant surge in player count.
OP speaks the absolute truth. RO2 shouldn't have sat on the damned fence on so many vital issues. They knew they wanted to make an actiony shooter, so they set it in Stalingrad to support the gameplay changes that they knew they'd be implementing. Small maps, small, small maps. Game looks and plays worse than RO1, and no, I am not trolling in the slightest. It is a sad day. I think I will retire to Darkest Hour.
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Well, my profile might be confusing. I am German, living and working in China.
My grandfather was fighting in the 6th army and got severely wounded by the end of September/beginning of October 1942 and was afterwards stationed on the Atlantic Coast for 2 years. He was captured later by US army forces and as a POW, survived the war. Unfortunately, he passed away when I was only 5 years old, so I don't remember much he was telling me about the war as a young boy. However, I got his diary from the war and a couple of small items (badges, helmet and stuff like that).
If I may add my idea: Somebody that knows the difference between a war movie and an anti-war movie, probably understands what I was hoping I will get again: an ANTI-war game like RO 1 that shows me the horrors of the war and that preaches: "survival is what counts, not k-d ratios".
With the stats tracking (especially kill-count), people behave to improve their stats and so, use rambo-style tactics, making RO 2 become more like a war game.
RO 1 to me is like the movie Stalingrad: no heroism
RO 2 to me is more like The bridge of Arnhem
This
Pre-release beta felt great. It was a little more mainstream than RO1, but at least the rifles felt good and none of the unlocks were in yet; the mobile autos were limited to the dinky sub machine guns, save for the random 'drops' of the MKB which looked and felt like solid gold.
I think OP is right. I'd settle for a couple mutators that made rounds feel more like the pre-release, with the emphasis on rifles hitting like trucks. Maybe once I get a little more back into the game I'll try and do just that.
I think OP is right. I'd settle for a couple mutators that made rounds feel more like the pre-release, with the emphasis on rifles hitting like trucks. Maybe once I get a little more back into the game I'll try and do just that.
