Why not give the MKB/AVT to the Elite Rifleman?

[hockeywarrior]

I doubt history/realism buffs are a large part of the RO2 community. Otherwise I agree with your post.

OK let me rephrase -- people who care at least in some small part about realism or historical accuracy (again, I'm talking even to a small degree) make up the majority of TWI's loyal fanbase. The kind of fanbase that buys all their games because they're TWI and they are a trusted company.

This is the fanbase that is being erroded away by stuff like this. I just jumped into an Ro1 server (full one, btw) and all I saw was disappointment or flat-out rejection of Ro2 being discussed. All I'm saying is that this kind of thing is never healthy for a community.

I'm also with Reddog in that I do feel misled regarding the treatment of rare weapons in RO2. As most of us remember, there was a pretty big ****storm about all this stuff back in July, and the community was quelled with calls to "trust TWI" with assurances that these weapons would be rare. And so people backed off. But RO2 is out and this is clearly not the case, even with the suggested changes going into a patch.

 

[Anjelous]

I doubt history/realism buffs are a large part of the RO2 community. Otherwise I agree with your post.

Why would this be in doubt? That was a huge demographic in the first RO, all those players are migrating to RO2.

Yes there's a lot of casuals right now, but honestly a lot of them will move on to Battlefield and Call of Duty in a few months

 

[Lost Cipher]

I guess I can understand your point, however why must people play with only bolts.

If your wining, and doing it through your expert use of a bolt action rifle, what does it matter with what weapon the enemy uses to challenge you?

I can't count how many times I have seen automatic or bolt users get gutted by a RO vet with a bayonet on their Kar 98 or Mosin-Nagant. Or how a bolt action rifle will beat a Mkb 42 or MP 40 at range, ten out of ten times.

This complaining about realism is getting tiring. I want Tripwire to focus on optimization and bug fixes, more than some arcane gun balance or class loadout.

 

[TheGoden]

This complaining about realism is getting tiring. I want Tripwire to focus on optimization and bug fixes, more than some arcane gun balance or class loadout.

Oh yeah. Neglect balance. That's a really good idea.

 

[Graphic]

imo MKB/SVT should be limited to squad leaders/commander, rather than Assault.

On paper a good idea, but then you get CoD twitch aimers taking important roles just so they get good weapons.

 

[SasQuatch]

Also Sasquatch since you're so keenly replying in this thread, how about giving us some insight from a TWI perspective.

I want to know why during the media buildup to the release of this game the community was repeatedly told the MkB42h and AVT40 would be rare 1-2 per side hero weapons to assuage their fears of them being too prevalent. Yet now even in limiting the things you are still giving them to every assault class?

Why the blatant lies?

I don't lie, thank you for that rude statement. If you want information, you can ask nicely. These decisions weren't mine to make. They apparantly changed over time.

The only way to do well with an AVT is to set it to semi, in which case you may as well have an SVT.

And you need to really practice with the AVT, since you seem to use it as an SVT only, you're doing it wrong. It has a skillceiling you apparantly didnt reach yet. RO is not for the lazy

 

[Sarkis]

Can anyone from Tripwire explain why the decision was made ? Because for us, it kinda kills, we really prefer the hero weapon idea since well... it's Red Orchestra.

Doubt my words ? let's have a poll, a major one

 

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Please limit the number of pre-order gats in the game.
I own them and I think the numbers of them being distributed ruin the games fragile balance.

Especially for the Ruskies.

edit: by limit the number, I mean reduce them even more than the upcoming fix is going to

 

[Stahlhelmii]

I doubt history/realism buffs are a large part of the RO2 community. Otherwise I agree with your post.

You mean I be a minority?

 

[FullMetalMonkey]

That would also be better, or even a 1 slot per team "Elite Assault" class that is promotable similar to how Elite Rifleman works.

Anything but the way it is now.

This was actually in the game at Gamescom.

Its a shame its not in the final release version. Also the Role Selection was alot prettier but with a weird stylization which didn't fit with rest of the game.

I think it should be reintroduced.

EDIT: Just read the rest of the posts. Ignor my comment.

 

[MikkOwl]

I've used both the MKb42 and the AVT-40 (in the game that is). The MKb42 has no comparison - it is in most cases the obvious, ultimate choice for the infantry rifleman. Since weight and reliability is not a factor in this game, it also performs just as good as the MP40/PPSh in the assault role. In open field battles with ranges from 200-600 meters, it would perform worse than the rifles however.

The AVT-40 has recoil which is manageable, if prone. It can be useful to take down one or a few close to each other enemy targets of opportunity at closer ranges. But the magazine is emptied faster than the blink of an eye, and constantly reloading half full magazines is not a practical thing. I would leave the switch on single shot except in CQB.

I am unhappy about there being not only so many semi-automatic weapons in the game, but now also these exotic weapons available freely for the Assault Class. I hope the weapons are further restricted. Elite Riflemen only having them is a good start for the exotics. Actually, just being randomly assigned one of these weapons (like when getting battlefield commissions etc) would be coolest of all. You'd see maybe one per match, and it would be a cool exotic thing to get one's hands on. Others would ask "wow, cool! How is it like? Can I shoot it?"

 

[Stahlhelmii]

I have found the Mkb42(h) (in game) to be the ultimate semi-auto when hitting the selector switch. 20 rounds, quick return to center, quick 2nd round right on the same spot, or right near if you're going after a group. Blows the G41 & SVT away as a semi-auto. And I think that the clean, big sights are by far the best on any weapon in the game. I was having a field day from 120m out earlier tonight.

Yeah, I felt guilty to a degree, but I suffered 1 1/2 games on the Russian side before finally scoring one. I may be a "kitty," but I just can't get into the AVT. If you use it on full auto, even if you get a kill, you're likely to be shot on the (slow, stripper clip) reload by one of your victim's buddies.

IMO, it CAN be fun, IF you:

1. Look at it as a non-realism game, since it sure beats Black Ops; and,
2. Luck out and get an Mkb, G41 or MP40 on the German side, or SVT on the Russian side.

If I get stuck with bolties now, I just wanna cry like a little girl. It would really be a whole lot more fun (to me, anyway) if you had 25 bolties on a 32 man team. A lot more challenging, too. That was the allure of RO to me. It had the "WOW!!!!" factor times 10. This one, with all the autos, it's more like, "Cool, it's better than Black Ops."

 

[red army]

yeah...its totally retarded when it is possible for 1/3 of the soviet army to be equipped with AVT-40 (Assault,Squad leaders and Commanders can all use it, and they compose 1/3rd of team alltogether). It was just a prototype afterall. I wish this game was more bolt action oriented like the first one. Same with the MKB42's, very dumb and annoying. I myself enjoy Bolt actions more and always do VERY well with them, especially on Spartanovka where i've found some VERY SWEET spots on Soviet side where i just sat there once and shot 20 enemies without dying until round end lol

 

[TheGoden]

I don't lie, thank you for that rude statement. If you want information, you can ask nicely. These decisions weren't mine to make. They apparantly changed over time.

I don't think he is being intentionally rude. I don't know if you folks in the office are aware, but the community is extremely upset right now and I would say rightly so. It would be nice to have information from either you, Gibson, or any of the other TWI members on where they stand on this issue. We are getting antsy and irritated on being left in the dark on issues many of us consider to be game-breaking. I cannot imagine it's hard for one of you to pop on the forums and let people in on what changes you are or are not making.

 

[Golf33]

+1 to "too many MkB / AVT" even when restricted to Assault Class.

I was really looking forward to this game but the reality has been very disappointing. Bandaging (weird decision - if you're hit badly enough that you'll bleed out without treatment, you are out of the fight and should be a 'kill' in game terms). Battles fought in 1942 where a majority of troops are using fully- or semi-automatic weapons. A DP-28 that doesn't seem to fire nearly fast enough for a 500-rpm cyclic, and loses out in the light machine gun role - not only to the MkB, but even to the MP40. Last but not least, weapons that were supposed to be "hero" become the main source of firepower in every battle - even though these weapons probably weren't even present in many or indeed any of these battles.

 

[Reddog]

I don't lie, thank you for that rude statement. If you want information, you can ask nicely. These decisions weren't mine to make. They apparantly changed over time.

I wasn't calling you a liar personally.

However what are the fans meant to think when all through the build up to release we were told;

- MKB42H and AAVT40 are in.
- They will be contained in an elite class, only 1-2 per side per map.
- Only people with veteran or hero status can access this class and use these weapons.

Now after these weapons were 'mistakenly' given to every class that can access an smg we are told that what was meant to happen is that the assualt class gets access to them. So suddenly and without warning it's shifted from 'these wepaons are rare and only heroes can use them' to 'anyone who levels up assault can get them'.

Where is the hero system, the limited classes for prototype weapons or any of the stuff that was banged on about by Ramm in other threads like these ones???

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=477421&postcount=23

What I think is really funny is that everyone hears Hero system and player progression and all of the sudden every thinks "OMG COD". When in reality, COD has nothing remotely resembling the Hero system that will be in ROHOS, and even the player progression isn't even close. As WilsonAM said in another thread, have some faith people. TWI didn't get bought out by some big publisher for petes sake.

Picture it like this, lets say there was some weapon that was really rare in a battle, but you didn't want to hand that weapon out to every soldier on the battlefield. Wouldn't it be cool if there was a system where just a few (but not all) soldiers could use those really cool rare weapons from time to time? That is sure as heck more realistic than just having a whole bunch of them in the game.

I'm not going to go into detailing what exactly the Hero system is or how the player progression works. We've got to save some things for later, otherwise we've got no info to pass out as we go along in development (its called PR and working the press). Lets just say ROHOS is still a tactical shooter.

With that said I have no doubt that some of the features of ROHOS will have some of the "purest" whining that we've sold out. But frankly those are the same type of people that said we sold out when we added an overhead map back in the mod days ("Oh no they added an overhead map to RO, the game is ruined").

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=773223&postcount=15

You don't level up to hero, and are always a hero. You level up to the point of being a hero "candidate". The game also limits the number of heros allowable on a server. So through some jedi voodoo in the background the server picks the heros from the possible hero candidates, up to the limit set by the server. So unless a server admin goes nuts with their settings (and they can't get too crazy unless they are running custom mode), you'll never have a bunch of heroes in one server.

Nowhere is where it is as far as I can see, TWI promised the people worrying about these bull**** weapons over and over that they would be rare and handled properly and with the same spirit to realism that RO1 had. The fact is this has not happened, despite us all being told so, that in my humble opinion is called lying.

What's even funnier about it is looking back, at how dismissively TWI treated anyone who raised concerns about all this. Handing out bans, locking threads, telling people they were being childish, jumping to conclusions etc. Well all of these concerns have turned out to be spot on!

Bottom line I bought this game based on information I had been given by TWI which turned out to be bull****, and now that it is flooded with a game breaking OP weapon that imbalances it I can't do anything about it.

And you need to really practice with the AVT, since you seem to use it as an SVT only, you're doing it wrong. It has a skillceiling you apparantly didnt reach yet. RO is not for the lazy

Nah I'll stick to the 91/30 combination rifle/spear/boat paddle/tent pole/shovel.

 

[grothesj2]

You mean I be a minority?

Strange feeling isn't it? I never knew we were the minority.

 

[BigMorgan]

On paper a good idea, but then you get CoD twitch aimers taking important roles just so they get good weapons.

Agree, but I wouldn't put the derogatory spin on it.

Even if the game is fairly run-and-gun oriented Squadleaders and especially the Commanders need to fight with their squad or team. Their weapon is secondary to providing the support and direction the team needs to win. Giving them the best weapon in the game is unnecessary, IMO.

 

[Krobar]

Nah I'll stick to the 91/30 combination rifle/spear/boat paddle/tent pole/shovel.

Maybe that's why the soviets were barely even got rifle ammo everything they needed was that 4 foot hunk of wood and metal.

 

[brain]

AVT and MKB need to be veteran unlocks for the Elite Rifleman class only.

Tripwire really screwed up by giving them to everyone and every class. This is ridiculous.