Why is the medic SMG useless?

[TheAphabet]

I have seen many times that medic players were leading the score board. And if the medic perk would be just about being a healing bot, that overpowered survivability wouldn't be needed.

Of the times I have seen medics top the score board, it is either from a perk switch from a prior wave (to medic), or someone else is picking up the slack of healing (as I have on Survivalist), or half the team is dead for most waves.

With neither weapon switch bonus, penetration bonus, or passive damage bonuses, the medic has the lowest clearing power even with the +20% weapon damage (at lvl 20). Especially with constant weapon switching from off perk weapons, the medic both wastes time while endangering their team mates (fortunately, Medic grenades offsets this risk, but not always).

But that is going slightly off-topic. Point is, I never found the SMG underpowered, and there is the solution of "smash their face and walk the f*k out of harm's way". Also, pulse your shots instead of holding down M1.

 

[Gladius]

When the gorefiend actively blocks headshots more often than not you start going for the gut. Base body health of the gorefiend is 400, the SMG can deal 600 damage per magazine. Factor in misses because I'm human, it's about a mag per gorefiend.
Nobody is 100% accurate. It's easy to look at numbers on paper and see what is ideal and what is possible, but it's not reality.

When you try to kill Gorefiends with bodyshots there is something severely going wrong on your end. When the Gorefiend is blocking you can still shoot him in the head hitbox when you crouch.

 

[Bluntman420]

I wouldn't say it's useless. It shoots much faster than the pistol therefore it's much more useful than the pistol. As a SWAT it's pretty cool too. It is weak but good enough to protect you from the small stuff. If you have bigger zeds rushing you with an SMG I think you and your team have other problems nor should you be looking for a fight with that gun.

Edit: Wanted to add: have you all heard of teamwork btw? Maybe your team should help handle gorefiends for you while you protect them from little stuff and heal them.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

Why should it be useless when playing with a team? It is absurdly overpowered when a player knows how to utilize that feature. I know someone who specialized in (ab-)using this to carry random teams that are total garbage and wouldn't make it past wave 3 without him. Medic is op. No question about it.

Using the damage resistance is fine, but on higher difficulties it becomes tedius at best. You may take half damage, but you're also closer to death because you're hovering around 50hp. Just about all the skills on the right side of the skill tree are useful for solo play while those on the left are geared toward working with teammates. The damage resistance isn't needed if you know how to keep yourself alive, and with symbiotic health you can keep yourself alive by healing your own team, plus with the added bonuses gained when you get higher in the leveling business.

Personally, I only see the damage resistance needed if you have issues keeping yourself alive. Same thing with the Fortitude skill for Supports. Also, I've seen some medics end up dead because they got swarmed while trying to use that resistance, when I think they're using it wrong. It's supposed to make you harder to kill as you lose health from zeds attacking you, so it's not very wise to damage yourself in the beginning.

 

[Gladius]

Of course the damage resistence is not needed. That's my whole point. I don't like it. I don't use it. It's only good for derps to break the game.

 

[Dr. Lethal]

Of course the damage resistence is not needed. That's my whole point. I don't like it. I don't use it. It's only good for derps to break the game.

I don't see it as game breaking. A number of times I was the last guy left alive with all of the left skills, and managed to win by scavenging weapons from my dead teammates.

 

[Gladius]

Depends on what the player is doing with that. But I'm not going to advertize griefing here.

 

[The_Pharoah]

The reason I've raised it is not that I want the equivalent of the AR12 or Stoner, however as a medic on SUI/HOE (and yes I know I'm not the only one who plays these levels, however anything below that is simple) you STILL need to defend yourself AND contribute to killing zeds esp on 6 man teams. Current perk weapons offer you:

1. Medic pistol - 2 darts, 15 rounds - these are excellent for early rounds. Reload time is long.
2. Medic SMG - 2/3 darts, 40 rounds - low recoil, low damage, long reload time. 650 dosh.
3. Medic Shotgun - 3 darts, 10 rounds, good damage however high splatter rate. 1100 dosh.
4. Medic Rifle - 3/4 darts, 30 rounds, excellent damage, high recoil, long reload, expensive at 1500 dosh AND 400 dosh to refill.

without handouts, it'll take you atleast 2 levels to get to the SMG. Then potentially another 2-3 levels to get to the rifle. 1500 dosh for a 30 round rifle with high recoil. Plus 400 dosh for a full pack of ammo? whats the point? Hell even the SWAT MP7 has almost no recoil and way higher damage.

It doesn't make sense to take another perk weapon. You lose the abiilty to heal. But if one of the recommendations is definitely 'take another perk weapon', doesn't this imply the current weapon loadout for medics is weak?

 

[Gladius]

But if one of the recommendations is definitely 'take another perk weapon', doesn't this imply the current weapon loadout for medics is weak?

No. It means that you suck with doing headshots with the medic SMG.

 

[Bladerunner42]

without handouts, it'll take you atleast 2 levels to get to the SMG.

If you are doing your job correctly (*cough* healing) you will get enough dosh from darting your mates to grab shotty in wave 3. Then again, don't even worry about blasting zeds unless they get uncomfortably close. Almost nothing I hate more than watching an arrogant medic holding a door, too worried about kills to even heal his team..

 

[Buzzkillinton]

If you are doing your job correctly (*cough* healing) you will get enough dosh from darting your mates to grab shotty in wave 3. Then again, don't even worry about blasting zeds unless they get uncomfortably close. Almost nothing I hate more than watching an arrogant medic holding a door, too worried about kills to even heal his team..

dont know what planet you are on, but you will not have the med shotty by wave 3 of a HOE (6man) game. and if you think you will be doing sufficient healing with the pistol alone beyond wave 2 in your average random HOE game, you smokin' crack.

 

[TheAphabet]

dont know what planet you are on, but you will not have the med shotty by wave 3 of a HOE (6man) game. and if you think you will be doing sufficient healing with the pistol alone beyond wave 2 in your average random HOE game, you smokin' crack.

Pretty sure it is possible to forgo Medic SMG on Wave 2 if you stock up on grenades (200 Dosh for 5 max, or less with Demolition or not using any grenades on Wave 1) and use your syringe. Also pretty sure it is possible to get 1100 Dosh by wave 3 that way.

 

[Bluntman420]

The reason I've raised it is not that I want the equivalent of the AR12 or Stoner, however as a medic on SUI/HOE (and yes I know I'm not the only one who plays these levels, however anything below that is simple) you STILL need to defend yourself AND contribute to killing zeds esp on 6 man teams. Current perk weapons offer you:

1. Medic pistol - 2 darts, 15 rounds - these are excellent for early rounds. Reload time is long.
2. Medic SMG - 2/3 darts, 40 rounds - low recoil, low damage, long reload time. 650 dosh.
3. Medic Shotgun - 3 darts, 10 rounds, good damage however high splatter rate. 1100 dosh.
4. Medic Rifle - 3/4 darts, 30 rounds, excellent damage, high recoil, long reload, expensive at 1500 dosh AND 400 dosh to refill.

without handouts, it'll take you atleast 2 levels to get to the SMG. Then potentially another 2-3 levels to get to the rifle. 1500 dosh for a 30 round rifle with high recoil. Plus 400 dosh for a full pack of ammo? whats the point? Hell even the SWAT MP7 has almost no recoil and way higher damage.

It doesn't make sense to take another perk weapon. You lose the abiilty to heal. But if one of the recommendations is definitely 'take another perk weapon', doesn't this imply the current weapon loadout for medics is weak?

If you get at least 25 kills first wave (which is very doable) you should be able to afford an SMG wave 2 without any handouts. You just pointed out how not useless the med SMG is: it darts faster, has more rounds, low recoil. What you missed was: it shoots much faster than the pistol and the ammo is cheap. Yes the damage is low, but considering how low the recoil is (almost non existent) and how fast it shoots, head shots should not be a problem.

I'd also like to repeat this point: others should be protecting the medic. Commandos, Gunslingers, Sharpshooters, Supports, and Firebugs can all kill Gorefiends and up with much more ease than a medic. If you're taking on a Gorefiend with an SMG on 6man+ HoE, there is something wrong with your team and your teamwork.

 

[silverlighted]

It doesn't make sense to take another perk weapon. You lose the abiilty to heal.

Why on earth do you need 3 medic weapons to heal? Even if you didn't want to shoot any zeds at all, the combined recharge rates of the medic AR + pistol should be sufficient I would think, let alone an AR+medic shotty.

You don't lose the ability to heal by off perking. Just like when you're shooting with a medic weapon instead of healing, you can shoot with an off perk weapon.

without handouts, it'll take you atleast 2 levels to get to the SMG.

Are you shooting anything? lol Why on earth can't you afford the SMG after one wave? Besides, honestly the first 1-3 waves are doable with just the pistol anyways, unless your team is really bad and taking damage.

Then potentially another 2-3 levels to get to the rifle. 1500 dosh for a 30 round rifle with high recoil. Plus 400 dosh for a full pack of ammo? whats the point? Hell even the SWAT MP7 has almost no recoil and way higher damage.

Lol, do you fill up your medic AR ammo every time? Do you run dry? Do you look for ammo boxes between rounds?

Personally, on 6 man sui+hoe games, I usually don't run dry, or fill up the ammo. But even when I do, the team is usually rolling in dosh anyways so it's not an issue to pay a mere 400 dosh in wave 8 because I already have 2000 at the beginning of trader time.

But if one of the recommendations is definitely 'take another perk weapon', doesn't this imply the current weapon loadout for medics is weak?

No, because most key loadouts often recommend an off perk weapon to make up for something the perk is lacking. Like when a sharp buys an smg, or when a demo buys a magnum, etc.

Part of the beauty of KF is the amount of loadout customization you can do. BUT at the end of the day, you can still do very well with completely on-perk loadouts.

People are just recommending to you to get another weapon since you seem to hate the medic weapons so much. A full triple medic gun loadout can do just fine too, just not in your hands, it seems like.

I'm not looking to diss, I'm just trying to convey that you may want to consider that these problems you are having in particular don't necessarily reflect objective issues with the class/weapons, but with your own ability. It's like if I went and made a thread about how gunslinger sucks, is completely unusable above hard, all because I keep running out of ammo and failing to kill big zeds.

 

[mrnok14l]

they just need to reduce the cost of the 201 to 300 dosh. it is worth that..it is not worth 650.

Not that simple, not as if it wouldn't hurt its competitors (AR-15 VR, MP7, MP5 RAS) to say the least. As far as price goes, I don't recommend go anywhere lower than 550 dosh with the Medic SMG.

6pHoE	shots-to-kill
Cyst	1
Clot	1
Slasher	1
Crawler	1
Stalker	2
Gorefast	3
Albino Clot	5
Gorefiend	8
Siren	9
Bloat	14
Husk	17
Scrake	84
Fleshpound	172

The medic SMG is a cheap and lightweight (3 blocks) secondary healing device for early waves, when you can't afford the rifle yet and the pistol alone isn't enough for healing.

When you look at the shots-to-kill you can't deny that the SMG headshot damage is sufficient for anything below Husk, SC, FP. And when the medic has to deal with husks, then the team is so bad that it deserves to wipe anyways.

I believe anyone who did the math can tell the damage is fine given it is compensated by its rate of fire and mag size. Moreover to your point, this's not saying HMTech-201 SMG is completely fine and that those who are not happy with it are paranoid, rather -- it is denoting the problem fell outside of said parameters.

Straightforwardly, the Medic SMG could used a better handling; namely accuracy; so that the actual combat effectiveness one could get out of this weapon is not worse than its already low firepower stats could translate to.

Practically speaking, the HMTech-201 SMG should be steady enough for Field Medic to render small Zeds headless in the successive manner of 2-round bursts - without the recoil of later bursts being so much that the required second hit will never connect (even if the user wrestle with the recoil.)