Why is classic mode so dead?

[RJ_MacReady]

I've reinstalled RO2 after a 1/2 year break and...
I absolutely adore Classic mode. It significantly slowed down the game pace and while still a little-tiny-whiny bit to fast for me, it's much-much better than in Realism mode. I love the new suppression model. Marvellous. Now I feel the danger when I'm being shot at. Very cool feature. Great job TWI! At last covering the corridors (while leaning) against the rushers makes sense. No longer can people pop out from behind a corner at shoot you in the face when you're focused at their possible entry point. And the client side hit detection (is it really included with the mode?) is awesome. No more leading xx meters in front of the moving target in middle ranges. No more shooting bows. If you could only have included the speed limit while climbing stairs and rubble, introduce weapon jams (even when it's 1% per shot for bolts and 0.01% for autos - jams were so common in WW2! Many brave soldiers died because of them) and perhaps lengthen the life of all in-game particles (see: Brotherhood in Arms Rendroc's Command Mod with Hollywood Effects enabled Steel Fury: Kharkov'42) I'd be delighted!

HW FX (Rendroc's command mod): Hollywood FX: Rendroc's Mods For Brothers In Arms - YouTube Notice the logetivity of particle effects like dust clouds, discharging guns or bullet impacts. The war feels more dirty this way, if you get what I mean.
SF:K42 (See how long it takes for the various smoke particles to lower down and disappear after ca. 5:20.): Steel Fury - Hanomag in Action - YouTube
P.S. Oh oh oh, and one more thing. Absolutely no kill messages or scoreboard until the end of a match. That would be awesome!

 

[Proud_God]

if you could only have included the speed limit while climbing stairs and rubble,

+1

introduce weapon jams (even when it's 1% per shot for bolts and 0.01% for autos - jams were so common in ww2! Many brave soldiers died because of them)

+1

 

[TheRealGunther]

Autos jammed alot I like the idea but bolts cannot jam.The only thing that could go wrong is the ejector doesnt pick up the casing.I own both a car 98 and a MN and after thousands of rounds never had a ejector problem. Both are about the most reliable weapon you can find.

As for any automatic they jammed alot the mp-40 I shot (which was old) was semi auto and it jammed 5-10% of the time.Never shot a ppsh but in many videos on youtube people are lucky to empty the drum without a jam.

Most jams was due to poor springs in the clips or drums.Carrying around a full clip for extended periods of time stretched the spring causing many jamming problems.

 

[Floyd]

Autos jammed alot I like the idea but bolts cannot jam.The only thing that could go wrong is the ejector doesnt pick up the casing.I own both a car 98 and a MN and after thousands of rounds never had a ejector problem. Both are about the most reliable weapon you can find.

As for any automatic they jammed alot the mp-40 I shot (which was old) was semi auto and it jammed 5-10% of the time.Never shot a ppsh but in many videos on youtube people are lucky to empty the drum without a jam.

Most jams was due to poor springs in the clips or drums.Carrying around a full clip for extended periods of time stretched the spring causing many jamming problems.

Biggest problem we had with (semi)auto's was dirt. Dirty chambers, dirty gas ports, rounds stuck together in the magazine......etc.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

Autos jammed alot I like the idea but bolts cannot jam.The only thing that could go wrong is the ejector doesnt pick up the casing.I own both a car 98 and a MN and after thousands of rounds never had a ejector problem. Both are about the most reliable weapon you can find.(...)

Thanks for correcting me. By bolt-action rifle jams I meant the need of rebolting the rifle twice or thrice as seen on some Youtube shooting range videos and on some movies. I just thought this could be categorised as a jam.

 

[echutter]

I love classic. I don't not like realism, but I prefer classic.

 

[TheRealGunther]

Biggest problem we had with (semi)auto's was dirt. Dirty chambers, dirty gas ports, rounds stuck together in the magazine......etc.

Yup good gun maintenance is essential for any automatic besides the Ak series(which could be fired covered in mud) and some more modern assault rifles like hk-416,scar etc.One grain of sand can jam a automatic either jamming the receiver or blocking a gas tube.

During the lengthy sustained battles in Stalingrad proper gun cleaning was near impossible.So automatics jamming was a huge problem during Stalingrad.Not sure if it would make for good game play but it would be realistic.

I clean my guns religiously and from time to time take my clips apart and stretch the springs.If your going to store a loaded gun its best to store them with a half full clip to keep the spring from weakening and causing rounds getting stuck together in the magazine.Also never store a automatic with the slide manipulated as this will weaken the receiver spring causing all kinds of jams.I bought a 92f berreta new and the shop owner had the reciver in the empty position.I couldn't fire two rounds without a jam and stretching the spring helped but the damage had been done.Bought a new receiver spring and hasn't jammed since ....buyers be aware

Thanks for correcting me. By bolt-action rifle jams I meant the need of rebolting the rifle twice or thrice as seen on some Youtube shooting range videos and on some movies. I just thought this could be categorised as a jam.

I meant no disrespect and I like your idea! You are correct some older guns with a bad ejector had these problems.It is very rare though and was easily fixed by replacing the ejector.Most of the old bolts doing this in videos just needs repaired.

I was just pointing out that in automatics its very common to jam.With bolts in good condition it very rarely happens.If anyone buys a old post war rifle I would recommend just eject a full load 4-5 times to test the ejector.

Edit- To keep this thread on topic I still prefer the challenge of Classic.I still enjoy realism but I just find it to easy to stop and fire using the faster ADS and not having sway.

 

[Blinde]

Autos jammed alot I like the idea but bolts cannot jam.The only thing that could go wrong is the ejector doesnt pick up the casing.I own both a car 98 and a MN and after thousands of rounds never had a ejector problem. Both are about the most reliable weapon you can find.
<snip>
Most jams was due to poor springs in the clips or drums.Carrying around a full clip for extended periods of time stretched the spring causing many jamming problems.

I've seen a shooter using a 1942 SMLE have to go through hang-fire drills on the range because the magazine spring was sufficiently stretched/compressed that it didn't feed the last few rounds properly and they jammed just a bit too low to be picked up by the bolt. At the time, he couldn't tell if the round had failed to load (what actually happened) or whether the ammunition had failed to fire (more dangerous in a civilian range if handled incorrectly).

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Is it any wonder in almost any show or movie involving firearms that they are obsessively cleaning them?

 

[hockeywarrior]

Why is classic mode so dead? Good question, and I think I know the answer.

To be completely honest, I really like Classic mode. It's what I've asked for from the devs since ... well since RO2 was announced to be quite frank. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more like the RO2 I expected on release than what I got with realism and many of its broken features.

Even so, while I have come back to RO2 a bit more for this mode, the majority of the "RO faithful" guys I know who used to play RO1 religiously just gave up after RO2's release when there was no real promise of major gameplay changes coming. Now that Classic is out, it's been pretty damn hard to convince them to try it. Many have told me they're just sick of the whole RO2 saga, and have moved on to other games. It's a shame because I think they could possibly get back into the game again, but it seems that RO2's release has left too bad a taste in their mouths.

And on that last point, I mostly have to agree. It's great to have a mode that makes RO2 fun for me to play, but I have to admit that it feels late. I just don't feel inspired by the game like I once was, and I think it's largely in part to the frustration I and others have experienced over the last year. I really believe that if a mode with Classic's slower and more tactical gameplay had been released with the game, we'd be in a different situation than we are today.

So there's my verdict on why RO Classic isn't super popular -- the people who really would have appreciated it have mostly moved on. It sounds like a hollow excuse at first, but it's honestly far from surprising if you really stop and think about how events have transpired since the game's release.

 

[Nikita]

I've seen a shooter using a 1942 SMLE have to go through hang-fire drills on the range because the magazine spring was sufficiently stretched/compressed that it didn't feed the last few rounds properly and they jammed just a bit too low to be picked up by the bolt. At the time, he couldn't tell if the round had failed to load (what actually happened) or whether the ammunition had failed to fire (more dangerous in a civilian range if handled incorrectly).

Gods, my two worst nightmares:

--squib
--hangfire

I wince every time some, well, idiot in the lane next to me casually remarks "Bad round" and lets the unfired round fall out onto the bench or the floor.

Sorry--off topic.

Classic will rise again. "What is dead may never die, but rises, harder and stronger." :IS2:

 

[shadowmoses]

Why is classic mode so dead? Good question, and I think I know the answer.

To be completely honest, I really like Classic mode. It's what I've asked for from the devs since ... well since RO2 was announced to be quite frank. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more like the RO2 I expected on release than what I got with realism and many of its broken features.

Even so, while I have come back to RO2 a bit more for this mode, the majority of the "RO faithful" guys I know who used to play RO1 religiously just gave up after RO2's release when there was no real promise of major gameplay changes coming. Now that Classic is out, it's been pretty damn hard to convince them to try it. Many have told me they're just sick of the whole RO2 saga, and have moved on to other games. It's a shame because I think they could possibly get back into the game again, but it seems that RO2's release has left too bad a taste in their mouths.

And on that last point, I mostly have to agree. It's great to have a mode that makes RO2 fun for me to play, but I have to admit that it feels late. I just don't feel inspired by the game like I once was, and I think it's largely in part to the frustration I and others have experienced over the last year. I really believe that if a mode with Classic's slower and more tactical gameplay had been released with the game, we'd be in a different situation than we are today.

So there's my verdict on why RO Classic isn't super popular -- the people who really would have appreciated it have mostly moved on. It sounds like a hollow excuse at first, but it's honestly far from surprising if you really stop and think about how events have transpired since the game's release.

+:IS2::IS2:
I agree with all that you have said here. I am one of those people that has been hurt directly and indirectly from the game and it's Devs.

If I may piggy-back you statement, I think that the new additions to classic mode are great. They listened to the community that wanted to see change (granted after losing nearly all of the community and 8 months of fighting). The issue is, I feel that many of the additions were added with little concern on how they might effect other aspects of the game. The main one is maps. The maps now [with focus purely on map layout and build] are just so mediocre and sometimes just plain too painful to play. I can't think of a single map that was really made for vehicles, besides the only tank map for the game and that one falls into one of those ruddy painful categories. With these maps, you now have classic mode which in many cases have turned the maps into something that is poorly leveled.

Many features of the game are also still very unpolished and they are often features that don't escape you. Weather it be the ugly font that the game boasts, the broken vote menu, the fact that I still can't deploy on many obvious surfaces or prone in a sensible position. I just still feel like I'm fighting the game to have fun. I don't care if my legs pop out of the wall I just want to prone if I feel like I have to! And those may be small things or things that may not have as high priority in the list of fixes that need to come out. But it's the culmination of those little things that detract from the game's charm.

Putting those gripes aside for a moment, it is very clear that much of the game has been improved, in many places to a drastic and commendable degree. I mean I have absolutely fallen in love with the MG's. Something I haven't done since RO1 and DH. But even with these additions and fixes we still need better maps. Maps with Size and Depth, Maps that make you feel like you are in a war or on a Battlefield. Maps that are actually made for vehicles... Not some map that funnels tanks into a small spot where they park for the whole game or until back and forth, 200 meter fire volleys kill one of the tanks. Maps that take a great advantage of the Engineer class to clear out obstacles, walls, and/or doors. Riught now many of the maps are very one dimensional. And ANYTHING is better than what we have now for a tank only map. My LORD is that map ugly and nonsensical. I feel like I'm on friggen Hoth or something.

 

[ComeAndSee]

This happened in Natural Selection.

Game had its classic mode and then they came out with the "combat mode" team death match and 90% of the servers were suddenly combat in a week.

 

[Void]

Butt hurt because the majority of players does not like "your" game mode.

Let's blame TW for it, again.

You guys are hilarious. And cute.

 

[Flogger23m]

Why is classic mode so dead? Good question, and I think I know the answer.

To be completely honest, I really like Classic mode. It's what I've asked for from the devs since ... well since RO2 was announced to be quite frank. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more like the RO2 I expected on release than what I got with realism and many of its broken features.

Even so, while I have come back to RO2 a bit more for this mode, the majority of the "RO faithful" guys I know who used to play RO1 religiously just gave up after RO2's release when there was no real promise of major gameplay changes coming. Now that Classic is out, it's been pretty damn hard to convince them to try it. Many have told me they're just sick of the whole RO2 saga, and have moved on to other games. It's a shame because I think they could possibly get back into the game again, but it seems that RO2's release has left too bad a taste in their mouths.

And on that last point, I mostly have to agree. It's great to have a mode that makes RO2 fun for me to play, but I have to admit that it feels late. I just don't feel inspired by the game like I once was, and I think it's largely in part to the frustration I and others have experienced over the last year. I really believe that if a mode with Classic's slower and more tactical gameplay had been released with the game, we'd be in a different situation than we are today.

So there's my verdict on why RO Classic isn't super popular -- the people who really would have appreciated it have mostly moved on. It sounds like a hollow excuse at first, but it's honestly far from surprising if you really stop and think about how events have transpired since the game's release.

This is very much the case. Though I decided to give it another try, and do enjoy Classic mode. There still seems to be some things that are "off" in the general mechanics, though I would play it if there were servers to play on. I tried the 200 ping European soldier, and I was lagging around the map, I would hit people point blank yet my shot would not register. So I am forced to stop playing the game.

There is also another important aspect. Some people like all game modes, or prefer another. This splits the community, which results in less players overall if you only play in one game mode. When others see their preferred game mode is dying they will stop playing the game altogether.

In RO OST we all had one game play type to play which is a large reason why it kept a high player base for what it was for so long. I was against multiple gameplay modes from the start and would have preferred if the arcade mode was never added into the game.

There is always hope that there will be a true RO sequel (from release), though that may not happen. If an RO3 will be another RO2 I would think TWI is better off making more zombie games. I've only got about 4-5 hours, if that, of quality gameplay from RO2. Even at $25 (or whatever I paid) I feel like I threw away money.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

I've just had one of the most intensive firefights in RO2 ever. I've been playing on a 10-1 Server Classic Mode, or something like that (I looked for my favourite OldGits, but couldn't find it). I've joined the server on the Grain Elevator map. We've managed to win the first round with my role limited only to manning the Maxim on the first floor, right wing. But the next round... Man, that was something. The Germans somehow managed to break through and fought their way towards the conveyor tower, which they took. Then, they advanced on the main building. The firefight on the main stairwell was so intense I can't even describe it. I remember shooting down and actually hitting some Germans several floors down (which was impossible with the server side hit detection), receiving a suppressing fire when I walked to close to one of the windows (but not being killed by the first shot). We lost that round, and the next one unfortunately, but they both had so immense action, even though the gameplay was slowed down, that I couldn't believe I was playing RO2. Classic mode really makes the huge difference. Yeah, it really does.
To be honest, I silently hated TWI for their vanilla RO2 release, so I stopped playing it and shifted to Pharaoh from GOG and Achtung Panzer: Kharkov (the best WW2 RTS ever by the way). I've been visiting the forums on the following months after, from time to time, just to check whether the classic mode is out or not. Unfortunatelly, it was at least six months until it was released. So there was a time when I waved my hand and said too myself like Yoda: "For garbage you have had your money thrown." But then... One day I enter the forums and here it is! (*** now everybody imagines godrays from the sky, shining on my face ***) Classic mode! And... there are some whining threads on it? Hmmm... The mode... it's awesome guys!
*coughs, coughs*
I have a statement to make. If you've ever played the original Ghost Recon game and liked the slow game pace of it. The classic mode, while not being as slow paced game as GR was, is for you. Now you need tactics as much as ever. Because now it's all about it. Arcade skills still matter, sure, but only in close quarters. You always have to have a big picture of the battlefield in your mind. The client-side hit detection makes you feel like shooting a rifle instead of a bow, the lack of bandaging system makes you think twice before rushing into the room and the new suppression system (which GS lacked) makes you dive for cover as soon as the enemy rounds hit objects near you. I'm really impressed that the game, I've hated just six months ago, managed too suck me in again.

P.S. I apologise for any grammar/syntax mistakes, but I'm writin' this text at 4:30AM, after the POL-RUS match, after a few beers and blah blah I'm going to sleep. ;P
So this is the first and only draft, so I hope it doesn't have many grammar/yadda/and logical(!) mistakes. Cheers everyone.

P.S. PzKpfW IV pinned me down once. New suppression effect+lack of nearby team mates really holly-molly-heads-ye-down sometimes, when you're being fired upon with full automatics. At least, it does it to me.

 

[hockeywarrior]

Butt hurt because the majority of players does not like "your" game mode.

Let's blame TW for it, again.

You guys are hilarious. And cute.

Say what you will, but I'm merely relaying my own experience and observations. I give TWI alot of credit for finally listening to the community, but ignoring the fact that this update came extremely late is like trying to say there isn't a purple elephant in the room when it's sitting on the kitchen table.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention. I personally don't understand the machine-gun zoom. If they removed zooming from all weapons except the scoped ones, why leave it in machine-guns? I have maxed Russian rifleman and, whenever I can, I play in DP machine-gunner's role, and I feel it's too easy to shoot troops with this type of weapon because of this bloody zoom. It feels almost like a shooting gallery if you pick a nicely concealed cover. It's not fair me thinks.

 

[svgamer]

Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention. I personally don't understand the machine-gun zoom. If they removed zooming from all weapons except the scoped ones, why leave it in machine-guns? I have maxed Russian rifleman and, whenever I can, I play in DP machine-gunner's role, and I feel it's too easy to shoot troops with this type of weapon because of this bloody zoom. It feels almost like a shooting gallery if you pick a nicely concealed cover. It's not fair me thinks.

I think it is a concession to allow MG's to deploy at a greater stand-off distance. The way the game plays it is too easy to pick off MG's at short/medium range.

 

[Guggy]

I just hate the zoom on all weapons Much more satisfying to score hits without the zoom factoring into everything, and having a standardized level of zoom makes it easier to lead targets at moderate ranges I think.

I'm really not sure about the sprint/stamina, since I never played the original RO. I'm fine with speed I suppose, but the stamina is a bit annoying.