Why is classic mode so dead?

[Miro]

Classic mode was a byproduct of a very vocal minority.

For me, majority of the changes RO2 had compared to RO1 were positively received. However, it is quite clear that some simply wanted a reskinned RO1. Zoom, faster movement speed, bandaging, bonuses, ability to have other team's weapons are some of the most noticeable changes. All were attacked over and over and continue to be attacked even now largely by the same crowd that kept lobbying for the classic mode.

I think the largest problem is that pixel hunting was quite widespread in RO1. Some people just liked diving into a hole, poking their head out, and waiting for a muzzle flash somewhere on the other side of the map. This obviously doesn't work that well in RO2 due to smaller combat areas, zoom, more cover, and faster movement speed which allows for better flanking possibilities. Rather than adapting and developing new gaming styles, some just want the same old same old.

Oh, and RO1 had it's fair share of rambos, too. I'm sure some remember what happened in the halls on Zhitomir 1941 or trenches of Lyes Krovy, so lets not get out of hand with running and gunning comments in realism. Plus, I'll take rambos running around over not being able to leave spawn due to machine guns and artillery any day.

 

[Comrade Kaizer]

However, it is quite clear that some simply wanted a reskinned RO1.

Funny, because from what my eyes have seen on these forums was that people really wanted an overall improvement that brings back the intensity and more importantly, authenticity of the previous iteration of Red Orchestra.

Also the polls taken concerning Classic Mode seem to beg the differ from what you're stating.

 

[Miro]

Funny, because from what my eyes have seen on these forums was that people really wanted an overall improvement that brings back the intensity and more importantly, authenticity of the previous iteration of Red Orchestra.

Also the polls taken concerning Classic Mode seem to beg the differ from what you're stating.

The same polls that rarely break 300 votes while during peak times there are over 2000 players? This is disregarding the fact that there is obviously more than 2000 unique players that play in any given week.

Sorry, but the forum dwellers are the vocal minority.

 

[Comrade Kaizer]

The same polls that rarely break 300 votes while during peak times there are over 2000 players? This is disregarding the fact that there is obviously more than 2000 unique players that play in any given week.

Sorry, but the forum dwellers are the vocal minority.

But what exactly is this stating? What I said was that the users asking for a Classic Mode weren't exactly clamoring for a reskinned Ostfront. Regardless of how low these numbers might seem, that doesn't regard them to this accusation you (and others) seem to make.

In regards to the throwing around of member to player ratio, I could not care any less for specifics because we are indeed a minority in that aspect whether we like it or not. Which is the case for most game titles with a niche past. That wouldn't require a PhD to figure out.

 

[Miro]

But what exactly is this stating? What I said was that the users asking for a Classic Mode weren't exactly clamoring for a reskinned Ostfront. Regardless of how low these numbers might seem, that doesn't regard them to this accusation you (and others) seem to make.

In regards to the throwing around of member to player ratio, I could not care any less for specifics because we are indeed a minority in that aspect whether we like it or not. Which is the case for most game titles with a niche past. That wouldn't require a PhD to figure out.

Let me just put it this way, do you not agree that the things I mentioned (zoom, faster movement speed, bandaging, bonuses, ability to have other team's weapons) are rather poorly received on these forums?

At the same time, do you not agree that other than lack of content and graphics, these are some of the things that primarily differentiate RO2 from RO1?

The bottom line is that sure, some people will accept minor tweaks to keep RO2 from being just a reskinned RO1, but overall there was, and still is, a large push to make RO2 much more like RO1 than what I believe RO2 should be left as, i.e. realism mode.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

In Yellow

Let me just put it this way, do you not agree that the things I mentioned (zoom, faster movement speed, bandaging, bonuses, ability to have other team's weapons) are rather poorly received on these forums?

For some yes, others no. Then there are those who prefer some sort of mix or just want to see them tweaked.

At the same time, do you not agree that other than lack of content and graphics, these are some of the things that primarily differentiate RO2 from RO1?

Yes, but what is your point? TWI has already stated that creating content in the newer engine takes much more time and effort to complete. Are you trying to say it is someone's fault?

The bottom line is that sure, some people will accept minor tweaks to keep RO2 from being just a reskinned RO1, but overall there was, and still is, a large push to make RO2 much more like RO1 than what I believe RO2 should be left as, i.e. realism mode.

There is a vocal push by some, but by your very definition it can't be large becaue they are a small minority . I am one who prefers Classic but the last thing I want to see is a reskinned ROOST.

 

[wazups2x]

My friends and I all enjoy Realism Mode much more.

 

[r5cya]

let me just put it this way, do you not agree that the things i mentioned (zoom, faster movement speed, bandaging, bonuses, ability to have other team's weapons) are rather poorly received on these forums?

At the same time, do you not agree that other than lack of content and graphics, these are some of the things that primarily differentiate ro2 from ro1?

The bottom line is that sure, some people will accept minor tweaks to keep ro2 from being just a re skinned ro1, but overall there was, and still is, a large push to make ro2 much more like ro1 than what i believe ro2 should be left as, i.e. Realism mode.

i agree. Not sure why our comrade doesn't see it this way as well. They didn't ask for a re skinned ro. But that's what it is, when they were done removing stuff.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

My friends and I all enjoy Realism Mode much more.

You are far from alone.

 

[Nikita]

A reskinned RO1?

Please.

What was added by Classic Mode that was absent in RO1:

--Reload checks, partial reloads for bolt-actions
--Mantling, cover system, blindfire, added LMG functionality
--Fixed heavy machine guns
--Vastly more technical armor system, detailed tank interiors
--Suppression system
--added commander resources (artillery types, recon, force respawn)
--Enemy spotted system, command interface
--More detailed player hit locations, damage system
--Weight system
--improved animations, player models, effects
--Client-side hit detection
--streamlined melee system
--Squad system, interface
--revised team point system
--iron-sights zoom
--EDIT: Bullet penetration (thx Golf33)

Oh, and did I mention the game engine changed? Hard to call it a re-skin, then, eh?

THESE were all the "positively recieved" changes in RO2... and they STAYED in Classic Mode.

What was actually removed by Classic Mode:
--snap iron sights out of sprint
--spawn on squad leader
--lockdown
--peripheral vision indicators
--bandaging and bleed-out system
--Killcam (oooh, really miss that one )
--most unrealistic weapon loadouts

So lets keep things in perspective. Enough hyperbole. I'm so god-awfully sick of hyperbole. RO2 Classic is leaps and bounds more advanced than Ostfront.

So what if it was the result of a forum minority? The recent changes to the tank system that actually make it possible to face a Panzer IV with a T-34 on even terms were the result of a very, very vocal forum minority. You can thank us later.

 

[Comrade Kaizer]

The bottom line is that sure, some people will accept minor tweaks to keep RO2 from being just a reskinned RO1, but overall there was, and still is, a large push to make RO2 much more like RO1 than what I believe RO2 should be left as, i.e. realism mode.

You're telling me the same thing you stated prior but with different words. Like I said, I don't see this large push you're speaking of, a couple of members of an already small community making multiple threads about some other features doesn't make that a large push. Just a couple of outspoken members that want to push preferences upon others, and those threads go by the wayside faster then not - It's practically non-existent at this point.

What you're trying to convey is the forums during the beta process and the loud pangs of nostalgia by a handful of people (definitely not enough to warrant everyone in the same boat as it is being depicted here) that often derail threads entirely - pretty much like how this thread is kind of derailed at the moment.

It was minor tweaks to make it feel similar to an Ostfront experience, not minor tweaks to keep it away from being a reskinned Ostfront. You're clearly not playing Red Orchestra 2 if you think that is the case.


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For everyone, including myself - the rest of these Yay or Nay posts and opinions can go here.

The more competent reasons of why Classic is in decline has been stated prior in this thread, and I agree with many them regardless of people's preference for Realism or Classic. That part is not what this discussion is.

 

[Golf33]

Don't forget bullet penetration of cover. That makes a big difference to gameplay. A huge improvement over RO1 and something that has been kept in Classic as well as 'Realism'.

 

[r5cya]

Don't forget bullet penetration of cover. That makes a big difference to gameplay. A huge improvement over RO1 and something that has been kept in Classic as well as 'Realism'.

i saw a guy complaining about that in-game today. i guess he didn't know that when you use the cover, it shows you how effective that cover is. that little shield is showing for a reason.

 

[Bluehawk]

People actually use the cover-system when they take cover? I only do that for walls too low to crouch behind.

 

[Nightingale]

People actually use the cover-system when they take cover? I only do that for walls too low to crouch behind.

It's actually pretty good. Have you tried using the peek function? In first-person, it looks like you are revealing yourself just as much as if you were aiming, but in the game world only a little bit of your head pops out. It's very useful on maps like Mamayev where you need to take quick peeks at the enemy. The cover system not very useful for aiming out of corners I have to admit, but for blindfiring or popping up to take a shot, it's very quick, intuitive, and leaves you less exposed than crouching in most situations (unless the mapper places the cover node improperly).

 

[Oldih]

It's actually pretty good. Have you tried using the peek function?

Not classic-exclusive issue but most of the time whenever you glue yourself to a wall\something, your avatar actually loves to present enough pixels from his helmet\body that you're exposing yourself pretty neatly up to certain distance, which makes it less cover (even if the object in question would be bulletproof) and more "I am too lazy to put my head down properly and since I cannot control my avatar's stance technically I shall keep exposing my forehead behind this wall and wait that someone goes for boom headshot... in approx. 5 to 10 seconds unless I dance around."

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

People actually use the cover-system when they take cover? I only do that for walls too low to crouch behind.

Most of the time I do unless I know I need to get up and move soon. Releasing from a wall or cover is slow as it seems... sticky

 

[Keyser_Söze]

My friends and I all enjoy Realism Mode much more.

Per your signature you have played ~5 hours of RO2 in 2 weeks. My friends list is full of people who were clocking 40+ hours of Ostfront a week for several years. Those are the players who kept the game alive and filled the servers. Very few of them play RO2.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

[QUOTE=Keyser_S

 

[Ace42]

I don't rate classic mode, TBH.

I like being able to zoom in with bolt-actions to better identify targets rather than having to squint like a lemon at someone who probably has an SMG ready to cut me down.
I like being able to move from cover to cover without having a camper cut me down between their nonchalant yawns.
I like being able to progress with the game (and thus use upgrades, sidegrades, etc for my weaponry).
I like being able to bandage myself if I take a glancing blow and carry on with the game.