Why did you make the Firebug even weaker?!

[DeadPlayer123]

Look, I even may agree about some nerf on firebug, but not in the damage, and definitely MW needs damage boost not nerf.
The thing about firebug is that even if the damage is high, differently from kf1, the range is smaller, it takes more damage from zeds.
The propose of firebug should be to kill small zeds and stuck/blind big zeds (when necessary, not always as some FB thinks...), it was doing it fine before the nerf, but now it seems it cant handle HOE games anymore.
To fix and balance it, just rollback the damage nerf, buff the MW damage, and increase the damage taken from sonic and poison. Booses and big zeds could also have higher resistances to fire, forcing players to use the MW in some situations, today, and before the path, there absolutely no reason to ever use MW.

 

[random]

actually if the MWG is decent for something is bosses, it buys noticeable amount of time by doing mini stuns and whatnot, also able to buy time by making hans dodge while his shield is on, the dmg on him is better than average, its weak for other stuff mostly because of zeds resistances are high rather than dmg itself, also having 3 skills do nothing for it.

 

[DeadPlayer123]

actually if the MWG is decent for something is bosses, it buys noticeable amount of time by doing mini stuns and whatnot, also able to buy time by making hans dodge while his shield is on, the dmg on him is better than average, its weak for other stuff mostly because of zeds resistances are high rather than dmg itself, also having 3 skills do nothing for it.

I fell flametower do much more damage do bosses then MW, although the force shield hans dodge is usefull, still, I prefer to go with flametower because of the damage, its all an combination of ground+splash+fire damage that makes flametower damage stronger then MW I think. Also, since this is more cheaper, you can stock more weapons for bosses...

 

[random]

I fell flametower do much more damage do bosses then MW, although the force shield hans dodge is usefull, still, I prefer to go with flametower because of the damage, its all an combination of ground+splash+fire damage that makes flametower damage stronger then MW I think. Also, since this is more cheaper, you can stock more weapons for bosses...

true, i don't remember the details but their dmg was on similar levels in the latest builds (on bosses), my point was not to compare those 2. rather to say that the MWG is decent at bosses compared to most other zeds, so it's base dmg is not bad, but the small zeds resistances are a bit too high to it. also not having an equivalent to ground fire, napalm and barbecue hurts it too.

 

[Franky]

Firebug is decent even in HoE if your'e Team playing the right Perks (Demo...) for the bigger Zeds. For me, i use Firebug for all the small Trash. Still, i had way more Fun with the KF1 Firebug and i don't know why. Maybe it's the lack of the current Weapon count.

 

[flashn00b]

Regarding a firebug nerf, I feel as if the more prudent move would be to actually increase the damage, while simultaneously reducing ammo capacity to compensate. I feel that this would push players towards a "short controlled bursts" playstyle, allowing them to perk weapon DoT as their main source of damage.

 

[random]

Regarding a firebug nerf, I feel as if the more prudent move would be to actually increase the damage, while simultaneously reducing ammo capacity to compensate. I feel that this would push players towards a "short controlled bursts" playstyle, allowing them to perk weapon DoT as their main source of damage.

that might work, but the dot needs fixing, as its not working with all skills, also making ground fire last longer would go well with less ammo and make you think a bit more of where to use it, currently its needs to be used kind of spammy since it dissapears very quickly, not hitting various zeds at a time, but instead needing to reset it to kill the zed fast when needed.

btw i'm not getting blue fire in the snow, anyone else?

also another idea, maybe fire should soften mid zeds or snare all for a short time (after the panic), so it adds something desirable to teamplay, a good firebug is great to have for CC, but even then it can be an annoyance to accuracy perks, while a bad firebug is pretty much all annoyance and no gain for the rest.

 

[SpawnTDK]

sadly the fb has those nice fire effects, always fun to watch, but:

They bring more harm than teamwork, enflaming every zed, making them panic which makes it harder for gs/ss/demos to kill big zeds properly.

this.

 

[defekt_]

TWI missed several tricks with the Fb.

It could have been the consummate crowd control perk but instead ended up being a low damage, near-detriment to the team. Ironically, almost the anti-crowd control perk.

If the Fb had good DoT -- and I mean seriously good DoT, not the current wet fart effect -- and ground fire persisted for a lot longer, and the weaker Zeds avoided stepping into flames, then the Fb would be able to exert rudimentary influence on Zed pathing. Even if ground fire lanes forced only Crawlers and Stalkers to avoid them it would be a valuable asset to the team.

Essentially, if the Fb was able to paint with fire, and have that ground fire influence how the weaker/faster Zeds behave, even without necessarily doing more damage than it does now the Fb perk would become a genuine crowd control choice. Most teams would likely welcome such a perk on their team, instead of sighing at how much extra work they're going to have to do to compensate for the mess Fb's cause as happens now.

TL;DR: Let Fb's paint with fire!

 

[random]

TWI missed several tricks with the Fb.

It could have been the consummate crowd control perk but instead ended up being a low damage, near-detriment to the team. Ironically, almost the anti-crowd control perk.

If the Fb had good DoT -- and I mean seriously good DoT, not the current wet fart effect -- and ground fire persisted for a lot longer, and the weaker Zeds avoided stepping into flames, then the Fb would be able to exert rudimentary influence on Zed pathing. Even if ground fire lanes forced only Crawlers and Stalkers to avoid them it would be a valuable asset to the team.

Essentially, if the Fb was able to paint with fire, and have that ground fire influence how the weaker/faster Zeds behave, even without necessarily doing more damage than it does now the Fb perk would become a genuine crowd control choice. Most teams would likely welcome such a perk on their team, instead of sighing at how much extra work they're going to have to do to compensate for the mess Fb's cause as happens now.

TL;DR: Let Fb's paint with fire!

ground fire lasting so little is really sad, seeing it has lost of potential, and being used as just another source of direct dmg is a waste, on the other side if it lasted long it might need to have a maximum numbers of fire patches active at a time to be balanced.

before they get to serious balance they should fix the free of ammo after fire, since it's an unfair bonus (if the dmg was fine).

 

[WeretigerRei]

Should probably lower C&B weight to 4 if youre gonna nerf it.

 

[defekt_]

I have very mixed feelings about FBs now.

On one hand I hate them with a passion as they make everything harder to see and hit, often causing groups to rage/panic simultaneously. (Granted, a good FB player can avoid the latter but sometimes even they set groups off by accident.)

On the other hand I pitty them as they're pretty much a trash tier pick now (and still make things harder for everyone else whilst being even less effective at keeping their lane Zed-tight).

I've said it already but I'll say it again: I'd put up with the FB being as bad as it is now, in every current way, if they had genuine crowd control abilities, i.e., painting with fire.

 

[sprech41]

So I love the firebug. Always have, will always love burning zeds to crispy marshmallows.

HOWEVER, I very much see where everyone is coming from here.The way I see it, firebugs are supposed to be the ultimate crowd control class. Cover the floor of a choke point with fire, watch as zeds walk to their deaths. I love that, I think it's great.

The problem as I see it is that, in their current state, the demolitions class FAR outperforms firebugs. Demos do the same thing, destroy groups of zeds grouped together. But they do it better, faster, and with more damage that firebugs. Not only that, but demos also excel at eliminating scrakes and fleshpounds. Firebugs, on the other hand, struggle with these bad boys. Everything the firebug does, the demo does better. The recent nerfs sorta exacerbated that problem.

Basically I feel that firebugs need to be brought to the same or a similar level as demolitions. Both of these classes are supposed to be the go-to crowd control picks, but there's currently no reason to pick a firebug over a demo. We need to give firebugs a special strength, a special niche to fill that perhaps the demo does not. Something to make it so the choice between firebug and demo isn't as obvious as it is now.

 

[random]

^agree with that, part of that problem is that there is not enough noticeable speciallization, Demos are OP for various reason, but in this case it has to do with them doing high dmg on anything, regardless of resistances.

for example the FB is great against bloats, or to stall at chokepoints, but since there is a bug that allows proyectile weapons to 1 shot bloats, and the dmg of their explosion is not that much, or might not even happen, and the demo having plenty of ammo, there is no point to use a tactical aproach of taking turns depending on enemy.

another example would be that the m79 in KF1 did low overall dmg on gorefasts, leaving some room for others to finish off.

point being that some perks strenghts and weaknesses against different zeds are not too defined, at least not in practice. in theory the demo and FB are very good partners since they dont need too much aiming or visibility, in practice there is not much need for such synergy.

 

[pie1055]

Should bring back KF1 fire DoT- back when damage per tick increased over time. May not make logical sense for a fire to burn hotter as time goes by but makes for good game sense as most zeds will drop if left to burn long enough. This is assuming that's not how it's already working, of course.

 

[Shadaaaa]

Damage, especially the MWG needs to be looked into...but aside from that, everything firebug does, more or less, causes annoyance to the team.
You run around left and right and get in peoples line of sight, you hide the zeds with fire, you cover other peoples screen with fire, your heat wave knocks them around and fire panic causes them to dance around, both small and large zeds alike, generally creating chaos in the frontline.

If you need someone to clear the trash zeds then might aswell just go with commando. You can bring down a horde from afar, kill or assist with scrakes, see stalkers and extend zed time.
...or go SWAT, or support, or...anything. Aside from satisfying you inner pyromaniac (which is my favorite thing to do from time to time outside HoE), the only use of firebug i see is standing behind a zerkwall with flamethrower and a demo in a 1-way camp spots like prison or farmhouse... which is a boring way to play the game.

 

[random]

^ part of that there is no way to fix, i mean, fire will always be a bother to aim based perks, pretty much no way around it, maybe if charred zeds slowed down instead of panicking.

he needs something to make it more desirable for a team, using ground fire as an actual area control instead of a direct source of dmg could work for holding and retreating.

 

[sprech41]

Should bring back KF1 fire DoT- back when damage per tick increased over time. May not make logical sense for a fire to burn hotter as time goes by but makes for good game sense as most zeds will drop if left to burn long enough. This is assuming that's not how it's already working, of course.

I think this is a good idea. The current DoT is so insignificant I've never even seen it kill a clot. And no other class has any significant DoT, so this would be good for letting the firebug stand out more. It would also give me a reason to choose the perks that increase burn time.

 

[I.S.T.]

Looking at the patch notes, and I'm seeing some massive improvements for Firebug. Thank you!

But still, the Microwave Gun needs work. DOT just doesn't do much against a big boss when everybody is trying to focus fire on him. Unless you massively improve the DOT(Which needs to be done anyway... Hell, the Flamethrower with less damage but far more DOT damage would be a very good combo and make the class more burst fire and supporting your teammates style), the Microwave Gun just isn't much better.

Still, it's better than nothing.

Just to be clear here, I don't want the Microwave Gun to be like it was at launch. That was too powerful. But, right now? I have no reason to use it. If I want ST damage against Hans or the Patriarch, I can't use the Microwave Gun. It's far better to use an AA-12.

 

[Stryke]

Looking at the patch notes, and I'm seeing some massive improvements for Firebug. Thank you!

But still, the Microwave Gun needs work. DOT just doesn't do much against a big boss when everybody is trying to focus fire on him. Unless you massively improve the DOT(Which needs to be done anyway... Hell, the Flamethrower with less damage but far more DOT damage would be a very good combo and make the class more burst fire and supporting your teammates style), the Microwave Gun just isn't much better.

Still, it's better than nothing.

Just to be clear here, I don't want the Microwave Gun to be like it was at launch. That was too powerful. But, right now? I have no reason to use it. If I want ST damage against Hans or the Patriarch, I can't use the Microwave Gun. It's far better to use an AA-12.

No. After this patch the Microwave Gun doesn't need any buff for a while. I would even say it is on the verge of needing a nerf. I just played an HOE 6-man game almost exclusively with the microwave gun (as soon as I could afford it) and it's rediculous. Everything short of a scrake dies nearly instantly. A HUGE deal is also, that it actually applies fire now (which means that it actually profits from the perk skills). You can also deal some serious damage to scrakes and fleshpounds. The boss was also not to much for it, so it is quite a strong weapon now.