RO2 why can't PTRS hipfire?

[chuy]

also, where is the SMG buddy for the AT guy? Before we go any further into hipfiring, we should know why didnt tripwire make the AT soldiers a 2 man squad where the hipfiring ptrs would not be even considered? thats what pictures say.

EDIT: But also consider than the German isnt running around the building like a day in the park... he is vigilant going room through room with gun sights to his face. I dont think the FASTEST quick-drawer would have a chance before the german pulls the trigger. Id say shoot the PTRS. Heck, if the german has a guy behind him too, he can also kiss his arse goodbye if shot by PTRS.

 

[bifutake]

also, where is the SMG buddy for the AT guy? Before we go any further into hipfiring, we should know why didnt tripwire make the AT soldiers a 2 man squad where the hipfiring ptrs would not be even considered? thats what pictures say.

EDIT: But also consider than the German isnt running around the building like a day in the park... he is vigilant going room through room with gun sights to his face. I dont think the FASTEST quick-drawer would have a chance before the german pulls the trigger. Id say shoot the PTRS. Heck, if the german has a guy behind him too, he can also kiss his arse goodbye if shot by PTRS.

but why would you go room clearing with a ptrs? in real life? you'd drop that thing way before you established actual contact.

OR you would've set yourself a little ambush. lying down, with the damn thing shouldered like it should be.

 

[mrsirr]

And how much you want to bet that if you were in the Soviet shoes where you confront a german at point blank range-barrel is basically touching his stomach, you WILL shoot. Do you care that it will injure you? no. you care that you will SURVIVE. According to you we should do this when we encounter a german "oh, lol, you caught me pointing my ptrs right at you and i wont shoot because its going to hurt me really bad, just shoot me" no... YOU BLAST THAT DAM GERMAN BACK TO 1918!!!! I bet a mule kicks harder than the PTRS and the worse a mule kick is knock you down with a bruise... that certainly is better off than dieing or being POW.

Just to recap, in a life or death situation, EVERYONE will shoot

Dude mule kicks have killed people. That would fall under the debilitating injury catagory.
And that's the main thing.
If you have your gun pointed at him that's one thing, but you aren't going to carry it around pointing it in front of you like you might have to shoot someone. That would be exhausting.
I don't necessarily feel that MGs should be able to hip fire; but at least an MG won't harm you if you fire it unsupported and at least it is remotely practical and one would be capable of doing it without planning way ahead in advance.

EDIT I've read that a .22 lr round applies something like 108 pounds of force and that can incapacitate you.
PTRS recoil is 183 or 186 (something like that) pounds of force.
That is a broken bone.

 

[chuy]

Dude mule kicks have killed people. That would fall under the debilitating injury catagory.
And that's the main thing.
If you have your gun pointed at him that's one thing, but you aren't going to carry it around pointing it in front of you like you might have to shoot someone. That would be exhausting.
I don't necessarily feel that MGs should be able to hip fire; but at least an MG won't harm you if you fire it unsupported and at least it is remotely practical and one would be capable of doing it without planning way ahead in advance.

EDIT I've read that a .22 lr round applies something like 108 pounds of force and that can incapacitate you.
PTRS recoil is 183 or 186 (something like that) pounds of force.
That is a broken bone.

[Fight Science] The Power of one PUNCH or one KICK - YouTube

At 6:25, that kick does 1023lb of force it can shadder ribs and damage organs. 186lb of force wont be breaking anything how you guys were saying (if thats the correct force the ptrs generates)

 

[[40-1]MORD]

I completely agree with OP. PTRS should be able to hip hire.
Now I`m going to start a new thread: why you can`t hipfire T34

 

[kaxii]

The real question is why can I not dual wield my mg34's and be like rambo!

 

[Balthasar]

I don't think you get it.

Hip Firing a 20mm Cannon... HOLY CRAP!!! - YouTube

That's a guy firing a 20mm cannon from the hip. Now it's not a PTRS but I think the message is clear. The gun goes flying backwards like 10 feet. If you tried to fire a PTRS from the hip using the pistol grip, you'd break your wrist, minimum. Basically, trying to hipfire it is like picking up a 7 foot man and swinging him around, and trying to aim. It is absurd and has no point in this game. Resources should be better spent working on things like halftracks and tanks.

Also, in that 10 second vid of the mg34 being hipfired, notice the other soldeirs running and looking at the guy like he's a freaking idiot. Guns like that aren't meant to be used like that, and realistically, he's more likely to shoot his friends then hit anything remotely Russian.

 

[titsmcgee852]

MG34 was hip-fired during the war, when it needed to be. There is nothing wrong with it. But yeah the PTRS should never be hipfired.

 

[Nikita]

That's a guy firing a 20mm cannon from the hip. Now it's not a PTRS but I think the message is clear. The gun goes flying backwards like 10 feet. If you tried to fire a PTRS from the hip using the pistol grip, you'd break your wrist, minimum. Basically, trying to hipfire it is like picking up a 7 foot man and swinging him around, and trying to aim. It is absurd and has no point in this game. Resources should be better spent working on things like halftracks and tanks.

Also, in that 10 second vid of the mg34 being hipfired, notice the other soldeirs running and looking at the guy like he's a freaking idiot. Guns like that aren't meant to be used like that, and realistically, he's more likely to shoot his friends then hit anything remotely Russian.

Hell, you'd break your index finger in the trigger guard.

 

[r5cya]

I like how noone responded because they were doing other things.
Bottum line dude:
The recoil would injure you,
The thing is just too freakin big to aim in any general direction without support.

^ this!
and bringing up other things that are wrong in the game, will not make us see shooting the ptrs from the hip as a good idea.

 

[Flashburn]

Just want to say 1 thing. Just 1 thing... You know the 14.5mm round is about the same size as a 20mm cannon round? Just a smaller bullet. You WANT to fire that from the hip? Personally I am not interested in firing anything bigger than a 3 inch 12guage magnum shell. IF that makes your brains slosh around your head...think of what 14.5mm round would do without being supported!

 

[r5cya]

EDIT I've read that a .22 lr round applies something like 108 pounds of force and that can incapacitate you.
PTRS recoil is 183 or 186 (something like that) pounds of force.
That is a broken bone.

the ptrs bullet creates 22,000 foot pounds of force. not sure how much of that is soaked up in the rifle, but it would still be too much to hold onto!

 

[JD0x0]

I've read that a .22 lr round applies something like 108 pounds of force and that can incapacitate you.
PTRS recoil is 183 or 186 (something like that) pounds of force.

Recoil energy is not the same as muzzle energy.
getting hit with 108ft/lbs from 22LR, one of the most anemic cartridges, isn't going to knock you down, or even move you a bit. The only way .22LR will bring you down, is if you get hit in a critical place, like the head, and you fall, from dying or getting knocked unconscious from the bullet. Also the .22LR loses energy very quickly, @ 100 yards you could easily be looking at half the energy, that you had at the muzzle. And the .22LR generates almost zero recoil.
Even powerful rifle rounds like the .30-06 which can generate upwards of 3000ft/lbs Muzzle energy wont knock someone down. For every action there is an equal an opposite reaction. Which means that a bullet hitting someone regardless of energy, isn't going to 'knock you down' any more than the recoil from firing the round.
The PTRS generates 24,500ft/lbs of muzzle energy. And close to 200ft/lbs of recoil. So it's plausible that it could knock the shooter down, if they happened to fire it unsupported and standing, and a target of equal weight could likely get knocked down, but it's more likely that most of the target wont be there after the shot, to knock over, assuming you're firing at a human.

 

[chuy]

Also, have you guys seen the bipod of the ptrs? Its like rounded. Tell me how is that going to transfer any energy to the ground? Ive seen other bipods that are pointy that can dig in the material. With the ptrs, in cement, it would probably just "slide" and going much of the energy to your body. Wont it?

 

[mrsirr]

*Shortened this for spacial reasons but you know what I mean

Well yeah if muzzle energy were the same thing as recoil energy then whatever part of you the stock was against would come off
Here is basicly the main thing.
One wouldn't be carrying the PTRS ready to fire because it would be exhausting and just really difficult in general.
And to the recoil thing.
I understand that a soldier would fire it in a desperate situation, but here's the problem with that (assuming the thing was light enough to carry around like a regular rifle):
IRL, a soldier would fire it if his life depended on it, ignoring the possible injury it could cause
But these are human players we are talking about. The guy sitting in a chair at the front of his computer isn't going to get injured when he fires that thing.
So what you have is a spike in people firing the PTRS from the hip the way people shoot each other with the RPG in BF3 because there isn't really a penalty for it, the avatar could get hurt, but then it would just be something to the equivalent of
1 bandage buys one hip shot.
Plus implementing something like that takes resources. It's not a horrendous idea but RS needs some fixing before they think about little tweaks like this.

TLDR version: The recoil thing is argueable; I just mentioned that because you said that a mule kick would just knock you down with a bruise. My main line of reasoning is that somebody definately wouldn't be able to get the thing into firing position in any reasonable amount of time, and he wouldn't be holding it in firing position by default. It's seven feet long; to be holding it up by one end would be near impossible for any normal human (yes soldiers are normal humans)

 

[Nikita]

Also, have you guys seen the bipod of the ptrs? Its like rounded. Tell me how is that going to transfer any energy to the ground? Ive seen other bipods that are pointy that can dig in the material. With the ptrs, in cement, it would probably just "slide" and going much of the energy to your body. Wont it?

Elementary physics. The frictional force opposing the recoil force will be proportional to the weight of the gun, as well as to the coefficient of friction between the bipod legs and the surface material. The weight of the gun is considerable, certainly.

As for the transfer of energy to the shooter's body, I'll let you work out the difference between a standing, hipfire position and a prone or standing, braced position on your own. A basic force diagram should suffice.

I'll now address everyone else reading the thread: all those in favor of opposing the addition of PTRS hipfire, we've made our point. This discussion is going nowhere, and it might just be best to let the thread die the usual death by forum decay rather than give this silly suggestion any more undeserved attention.

 

[bifutake]

also, if we're talking real life, the at-soldier would move with regular infantry support which would enable him to get into a favorable position. that at-rifle is now set up, in other words, resting on some firm base. if you're planning on using it, it's gonna be shouldered, no matter what. if you're in a building that's being overrun and you get yourself cut off from friendly units, you're gonna leave that at-rifle and pick up a carbine, an smg, a pistol, a grenade, a shovel, a knife... a rock! OR you're gonna take that at-rifle and point it at the entrance, if you feel secure about your flanks. and you're gonna lie down and wait for an enemy to pop out. or better yet, shoot him through the door/wall as soon as you hear him.

i can't imagine a third option.

 

[mrsirr]

That actually makes me think of BF3 (great example right?)
But BF3 actually did this really well with the Mortar.
The avatar carries it into battle and when he's ready to use it he picks a spot and deploys it.
When the mortar is deployed it becomes a stationary useable placement like a mounted MG.
If the mortar man is engaged, he can get up, leaving the mortar deployed on the ground, and fight with his firearm (of course that's Battlefield where something like a mortar goes under the "gadget" catagory. In this game he'd only have his sidearm.)
I actually feel that something like that would work fantastically for the PTRS.
Kinda off-topic though

 

[chuy]

I'll now address everyone else reading the thread: all those in favor of opposing the addition of PTRS hipfire, we've made our point. This discussion is going nowhere, and it might just be best to let the thread die the usual death by forum decay rather than give this silly suggestion any more undeserved attention.

But threads on STG44s in Stalingrad aren't silly suggestions right

 

[CocaineInMyBrain]

That actually makes me think of BF3 (great example right?)
But BF3 actually did this really well with the Mortar.
The avatar carries it into battle and when he's ready to use it he picks a spot and deploys it.
When the mortar is deployed it becomes a stationary useable placement like a mounted MG.
If the mortar man is engaged, he can get up, leaving the mortar deployed on the ground, and fight with his firearm (of course that's Battlefield where something like a mortar goes under the "gadget" catagory. In this game he'd only have his sidearm.)
I actually feel that something like that would work fantastically for the PTRS.
Kinda off-topic though

This was also how mortars worked in BF: Vietnam (not BC2:Vietnam) except that they were harder to aim, the firing process was similar to the knee mortars we have now.