Why automatic weapons suck in RO2 (Especially PPSH41)
- Thread starter stray cat
- Start date
if you suck with a ppsh i really dont know what to tell you without sounding rude, because ppsh is awesome 
l2p issue im afraid, i'll take a ppsh over a mkb or mp40 any day
protip: ppsh only has alot of recoil if you are standing, and even then its completely manageable, if you know what you'r doing
l2p issue im afraid, i'll take a ppsh over a mkb or mp40 any day
protip: ppsh only has alot of recoil if you are standing, and even then its completely manageable, if you know what you'r doing
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I dropped in an empty firefight server with a PPSH and a MKBer with a ^0cod^3-^7esque nametag joined.
I raped him. :IS2:
The PPSH is a damn good weapon, but I agree that the amount of climb it's been given in-game is a bit much as far as realism is concerned.
I raped him. :IS2:
The PPSH is a damn good weapon, but I agree that the amount of climb it's been given in-game is a bit much as far as realism is concerned.
You can actually see a bit of recoil throwing the gun in different directions.
also:
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rucUTv1H1k"]PPSH-41 - YouTube[/URL]
Seems to have a bit of recoil, even on semi-auto.
This thread made me want to use the PPSH more in single player, I have no problems with it, even from hip firing.
Smg isnt accurate weapons, to hit something whit an SMG at 100 m you need luck also (not because you aim wrong but cause the short barrel of the weapon) for example the ppsh's bullets hit in a 21cm diameter circle if you fire it whit sinlge shot at 100m, while i know the data for the Hungarian battle rifle the 35M
(like kar 98k and mosin) has got the grouping of 3,75 cm at 100 m (so the bullets wont hit out of a 3,75 cm diameter circle) at same distant it has got 5,6 times higer accuracy. Smgs designed for trench warfer back in WWI and they work for CQB, and they main mission over distances is supression not pin-point accuracy
(like kar 98k and mosin) has got the grouping of 3,75 cm at 100 m (so the bullets wont hit out of a 3,75 cm diameter circle) at same distant it has got 5,6 times higer accuracy. Smgs designed for trench warfer back in WWI and they work for CQB, and they main mission over distances is supression not pin-point accuracy
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I have noticed the PPSH recoil. Only having fired a few pistols in my life, I cannot offer first hand experience on the matter, but one thing I did notice, from various viewings of youtube footage of the weapon, is how damned easy it appears to be to use.
I sense that the recoil given is a balance issue adaption, more than a realism issue, and the onyl solution I can think to the problem is, give all guns realism, then give MG's boosted suppression to EVERYONE on the battlefield. You even HEAR a Machinegun BRAAAAAT out a burst, your screen starts to shake, and you hit the deck in greyscale panic, and make for the nearest toilet to change your soiled undergarments. That way, every gun gets to wear the realism tag, and everybody wants to put a bullet in that MG so that they can enjoy their realistic weapons.
I did note on the second video in your OP and that serviceman in Iraq clip, their grip does not offer good control to wrestle any recoil from the weapon other than the most minute grip (unless they practice martial arts that focus on grapple and significant hand strength) if the in game recoil is to be believed. Then again, my significant lack of handling firearms would more than likely betray my observations when someone comes in with anecdotes and actual footage proving me wrong, and that the game is in fact realistically accurate, and the recoil not a balancing issue.
By the way, I have little issue using the PPSH, I fire it in small bursts (2-3 rounds) and wait for it to settle before sending another volley of rounds until my target stops moving or looking at me, I imagine that the increased suppression from repeated firing puts off that bullet entering my skull as I am usually killed with a bayonet stab happy german who comes hunting.
I sense that the recoil given is a balance issue adaption, more than a realism issue, and the onyl solution I can think to the problem is, give all guns realism, then give MG's boosted suppression to EVERYONE on the battlefield. You even HEAR a Machinegun BRAAAAAT out a burst, your screen starts to shake, and you hit the deck in greyscale panic, and make for the nearest toilet to change your soiled undergarments. That way, every gun gets to wear the realism tag, and everybody wants to put a bullet in that MG so that they can enjoy their realistic weapons.
I did note on the second video in your OP and that serviceman in Iraq clip, their grip does not offer good control to wrestle any recoil from the weapon other than the most minute grip (unless they practice martial arts that focus on grapple and significant hand strength) if the in game recoil is to be believed. Then again, my significant lack of handling firearms would more than likely betray my observations when someone comes in with anecdotes and actual footage proving me wrong, and that the game is in fact realistically accurate, and the recoil not a balancing issue.
By the way, I have little issue using the PPSH, I fire it in small bursts (2-3 rounds) and wait for it to settle before sending another volley of rounds until my target stops moving or looking at me, I imagine that the increased suppression from repeated firing puts off that bullet entering my skull as I am usually killed with a bayonet stab happy german who comes hunting.
But it's not realistic if its happening so regular like now with the MP40. 50 meters maybe a maximum of 70 meters is were machine pistols fire precise. Over this range it becomes increasingly a thing of luck.
No it's not more accurate than a Sturmgewehr 44 in full automatic fire mode.
@Topic
I don't see a problem with the PPsH. I'm only Level 5 with it and don't use Machine pistols often, but i can get kills at 30-50meters in the first burst and even if i unload the whole clip at once the recoil doesn't put the gun towards the sky. Maybe it's because i'm used to RO:Ost Mpis. If anything on Mpis should be changed then it is the MP40 having a lower accuracy at high ranges.
tl;dr version: PPsH is fine, Mp40 is too accurate.
There's a report from a field trial mentioning the STG beeing effective up to 400meters in semi and full auto.
Your body and your arms move somewhat independant of each other in game it seems. On top of that fact your arms seem to loosely be holding your weapon, almost a relaxed stance. So fireing relaxed should have more noticeable recoil. Now add to the fact that this game makes you compensate for recoil while most fps games compensate for you and leave a little for you to do.
Realistically when you fire you get in a nice firm and aggressive stance. This helps reduce effects of recoil so you can stay on target. Now my only issue is that your firm fireing stance isn't portrayed too well, at least at lower levels of weapon class. I mainly use the K98 but if stat effects are working then as you get more proficient with the weapon (weapon level) recoil effects shouldn't be as bad. Never fired WWII weapons but have fired lots in the military. Stance and braced or not affect fireing greatly. Loose and relaxed stance like in the game would have horrible accuracy for anything fireing more than one bullet in succession.
I do wish there were multiple stances in the game. Hip firing position (still wouldn't use), low ready, and high ready for instance. You can still move quickly with your weapon up and be ready to reflexive fire but in game you can only go hip fireing and aiming directly down the sites at a slow and steady pace for accuracy. If the game moddled firm fireing stance better it would have more realistic weapon effects but would take less skill. There are lots of guys that have put a lot of time becoming profficient with smg's in this game and do a good job at doing with a mouse what your body does in real life to counteract recoil. Wouldn't be right in my opinion to make it easier for everyone else but at the same time no one except a scared little girl would hold a weapon lightly and start fireing letting it throw their arms around. A little bit of fine tuning needs to be done for weapon control, sway, and speed of aiming in in my opinion. Game is still new though and am enjoying it regardless.
Realistically when you fire you get in a nice firm and aggressive stance. This helps reduce effects of recoil so you can stay on target. Now my only issue is that your firm fireing stance isn't portrayed too well, at least at lower levels of weapon class. I mainly use the K98 but if stat effects are working then as you get more proficient with the weapon (weapon level) recoil effects shouldn't be as bad. Never fired WWII weapons but have fired lots in the military. Stance and braced or not affect fireing greatly. Loose and relaxed stance like in the game would have horrible accuracy for anything fireing more than one bullet in succession.
I do wish there were multiple stances in the game. Hip firing position (still wouldn't use), low ready, and high ready for instance. You can still move quickly with your weapon up and be ready to reflexive fire but in game you can only go hip fireing and aiming directly down the sites at a slow and steady pace for accuracy. If the game moddled firm fireing stance better it would have more realistic weapon effects but would take less skill. There are lots of guys that have put a lot of time becoming profficient with smg's in this game and do a good job at doing with a mouse what your body does in real life to counteract recoil. Wouldn't be right in my opinion to make it easier for everyone else but at the same time no one except a scared little girl would hold a weapon lightly and start fireing letting it throw their arms around. A little bit of fine tuning needs to be done for weapon control, sway, and speed of aiming in in my opinion. Game is still new though and am enjoying it regardless.
[QUOTE="Stray cat]Well the silly thing is that a MP40 hitting targets on 100m+ is actually realistic, but that level of realism is not applied to other automatic weapons.[/QUOTE]
I have to confirm that it is possible to shoot targets at 100-150 meters range with PPSH41. Did it several times today. It's not easy maybe but possible and sometimes worth engaging enemies at that range.
I have to confirm that it is possible to shoot targets at 100-150 meters range with PPSH41. Did it several times today. It's not easy maybe but possible and sometimes worth engaging enemies at that range.
Should check out this thread: [url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=65709[/URL]
Have you ever fired a fully automatic weapon before? Have you even considered any logic in physics? Presumably not, because theoretically, the PPSh is spot on. The videos you have posted are far from the camera. In order for you to prove using videos the real recoil of this gun, you would have to have the camera in the same place as the person who is firing it's eyes. So, the further from the camera you are, the less the gun is going to appear to move, it is simple logicistics. In earlier posts you say that the MP40 in real life has much more recoil, and is unrealistic, along with the PPSh41 being unrealistic. Well compare the two, the ppsh 41 has a higher rate of fire, which regardless of what you may think, will certainly raise the recoil, because in a sense, it is nearly multiplying the joules released after every consecutively fired shot. The mp40 has a lower rate of fire, which allows more compensation time to absorb the released energy. So however which way you look at it, physically speaking the ppsh41 should still have more recoil than the mp40, sure they may not be spot on, but you seem to be overreacting and assuming it should have no little recoil than an airsoft gun. Also, another principle to follow, the recoil will seem higher when you point the gun at a distant target. FYI, smgs were meant for suppression and CQC, not accuracy. In a real world, keeping your enemy pinned is just as defeating as taking him out, keep that in mind while you play. The people in your video have unreal situtations in the sense that they have no pressure on them, they don't have to worry about people shooting them, the people in your video can focus on accurately hitting and supporting their weapon. In real war, that is the last thing you are thinking about. SMGs in general were meant for close quarters, such as inside buildings, I doubt that they used them efficiently over 100m. Also, about the AVT40, do some actual research on it, the gun's recoil is also spot on. Ever heard of a thing called "vertical spot dispersion"? The soviets hardly used the AVT40 and it rarely saw service in full auto due to the fact of its recoil. So honestly, do some real research before posting things you hardly know about, youtube videos don't count, they don't have real life wartime variables.
Wrong. Take a close look at the muzzle in the videos and then look at what happens ingame. The vertical kick in raw degrees is way higher ingame. From what I can tell on a longer burst its at least 3-7 degrees. In the videos however there is practically none.
Then why does it kick more in every video? Because the weapon construction is not as good as the PPSH41. It has a solid stock and the mass of the weapon is more evenly distributed.
But then again, simply look at the videos.
PPSH41 is a superior weapon with better controllable recoil, better ROF and better accuracy (longer barrel etc)