Why all the hate on the Claymore Sword?

[vealck]

Increase Katana weight to 4 blocks. (Katanas weigh almost 4 lb in rl)

Maybe when it's made out of a sharpened car leaf-spring. A decent-grade katana weights about 0.9 to 1.1 kilogram. That's about 2.2 lbs.

Also, katana weighting 4 blocks would obliterate some nice loadout configurations, and I'm not even talking from the zerk perspective, as I rarely play as one.

What would really make claymore worth having, is an ability to hit multiple targets at once. But we don't want to buff zerk any more, do we.

 

[Alex_KF]

And it's not even hard to code, just use an "explosion" that damages anything in your FOV in the claymore's range

that wouldn't really be an accurate representation of the sword's arc

 

[pie1055]

I'm surprised so many of you say you cant use LAR with claymore... My loadout is almost always a simple Claymore + LAR. No intermittent 3-way-weapon funny business.

I can definitely see where you're coming from if you talk about needing space to move with the claymore. It can't drop enemies very fast and I do end up having to back pedal while whittling their numbers down.

 

[FoxReinhold]

Silly Americans...

Silly Americans...

Thats it. What would be great is the following MINOR changes:

Increase Katana weight to 4 blocks. (Katanas weigh almost 4 lb in rl)
Decrease Claymore weight to 5 blocks. (Claymores weigh about 5.5 lb)

Everyone realizes the developers set the game in Britain and that a "block", if you look at the symbol, is meant to represent 1 kg... right? Remember, America is the only country that uses pounds still.

Look at me! The symbol clearly says "kg!"

A katana may weigh 4 lbs in real life, but that would mean it should only take up about 2 Killing Floor "blocks". Increasing it to 4 blocks would actually be ridiculous as that would imply it weighed 8.8 pounds. So really, if you want to go with the realism arguement, by your own standard, the katana should only be two blocks.

 

[greenlemonade]

Everyone realizes the developers set the game in Britain and that a "block", if you look at the symbol, is meant to represent 1 kg... right? Remember, America is the only country that uses pounds still.

View attachment 10569 Look at me! The symbol clearly says "kg!"

A katana may weigh 4 lbs in real life, but that would mean it should only take up about 2 Killing Floor "blocks". Increasing it to 4 blocks would actually be ridiculous as that would imply it weighed 8.8 pounds. So really, if you want to go with the realism arguement, by your own standard, the katana should only be two blocks.

Im not some retard that doesn't realize the world uses the metric system. I personally think its stupid that we're not on the metric system. It just so happens that the averages weights I found through internet seaches were all in pounds.

I listed the pounds of both weapons to show you their RELATIVE weight. A Claymore isn't much more heavy than a Katana. Should a Katana really only be as Bulky as an SMG? Heck, I think its easier to carry my Winchester Lever action than it is to carry my friends Katana, yet Katana weighs half as much in-game.

A Claymore weighs less than three KG in real live, but 6 "blocks in KF. A Katana weights less than two KG in RL, but 3 "blocks" in KF.
Are you happy??

The "Kg" symbol on that weight is not meant to say the number is Kg. It is just a generic weight so we know what the number stands for. The HUD would be confusing if it said "Blocks 11/13"

That said, the primary purpose of a weight change would be for balance.

 

[greenlemonade]

Maybe when it's made out of a sharpened car leaf-spring. A decent-grade katana weights about 0.9 to 1.1 kilogram. That's about 2.2 lbs.

Also, katana weighting 4 blocks would obliterate some nice loadout configurations, and I'm not even talking from the zerk perspective, as I rarely play as one.

What would really make claymore worth having, is an ability to hit multiple targets at once. But we don't want to buff zerk any more, do we.

The average Katana (the length of the one in-game) does not weigh 1 kg. 1.1 at the very LEAST. Often heavier.

The Katana in the picture weights 48oz or 1.36 kg.

As far as balance, it might stop certain loadouts, but that can be a good thing. Everyone and their grandmother uses the Katana. Perhaps people will use the Machete more. Or a different loadout. People will STILL use the Katana of course and that's great too!

 

[poosh]

Katana is used often as an off-perk weapon, if player has 3 free weight blocks (AA12+HSg+Katana, SCAR+AK47+Katana etc.). Raising its weight will ruin those load-outs, so I'm totally against it. Also don't try to mess real world with a game. Realism must be sacrificed to achieve good balance in the game.

However, I must admit that Katana is slightly overpowered. But I don't think changing its weight or price would solve anything. I think the source of Katana's OP is its primary swing speed, i.e. fire rate (0.67s). If we make Katana slower (or limit Berserker's swing speed bonus), then Claymore and even Chainsaw could be brought back on the scene.

 

[vealck]

The average Katana (the length of the one in-game) does not weigh 1 kg. 1.1 at the very LEAST. Often heavier.

Yes it does. Mine weights 960 grams. And it's multi-layered steel, one meter long.
Cold Steel Dragonfly: 40 4/3'' long, weights 37oz., and that's barely over 1kg.
Hanwei Practical Katana (another popular model) = 100cm, 1,05 kg.

So, if you think that katana in KF should weight 4 blocks for balance reasons, you're entitled to your opinion. Just don't try to back it up with real world data, because if we assume that 1 block was meant to represent one or even two kilograms in game, it's already way too much, and it's clearly a strictly balance decision.

 

[Aze]

I don't see how the Katana is "overpowered", besides on Hard and Below. If Scrakes were not unlimitedly flinchable on those difficulties (similar to Sui and HoE), i'd say that's the only nerf it deserves.

Also, even though Berserker is deemed OP in general (Although i personally think that comes from his over the top movement speed bonus and that FP are kiteable. Nerf the speed bouns a bit and make FPs unkiteable and the Berserker would be a lot more balanced), i'd still vote for a melee weapon overhaul. Something like this (it's lengthy, so for those interested, it's in the spoiler)

Spoiler!

Machete - Make it THROWABLE (ironsight). Yomamassis made animations and all, here's that thread: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=46393
Looks really sweet!

Dual Machetes - Yes, make it DUALWIELDABLE too. When dualwielded, ironsight is once again throwing it (or going into aiming mode). The second Machete is another 100 dosh.

Fire Axe - Make it THROWABLE, just like Machete. In addition, make the primary fire be able to cleave through 1 target (so you hit max 2 targets in total)

Katana - Make the secondary fire be able to cleave through 1 target (so you hit max 2 targets in total)

Claymore - Make the primary fire animations be all horizontal, and make its attack cleave through unlimited amount of specimen!
Make the secondary fire be a strong overhead attack, which deals enough damage to stun a Scrake even with a BODYSHOT as a level 5/6 Berserker! (That'd require raising its damage from 320 to 335)

Chainsaw - Make the primary fire do a liiiiittle bit more damage so you can instantly decap trash even on HoE.
Make the secondary fire have a higher headshot-multiplier (1.25x, up from 1.0x) so you can stun Scrakes with frontal headshots.
Also, i'd suggest giving it a fuelrequirement (only consumed by primary fire?). As compensation for the fuel nerf, i'd also let the Chainsaw count as a melee weapon (aka run faster with it), with at the very least a PARTIAL speed bonus.
All this might also require a new higher price on it, and a change of what weapons to spawn with as a Berserker (5 = Machete, 6 = Fire Axe?)

 

[greenlemonade]

Yes it does. Mine weights 960 grams. And it's multi-layered steel, one meter long.
Cold Steel Dragonfly: 40 4/3'' long, weights 37oz., and that's barely over 1kg.
Hanwei Practical Katana (another popular model) = 100cm, 1,05 kg.

So, if you think that katana in KF should weight 4 blocks for balance reasons, you're entitled to your opinion. Just don't try to back it up with real world data, because if we assume that 1 block was meant to represent one or even two kilograms in game, it's already way too much, and it's clearly a strictly balance decision.

You're not listening fully. I was comparing the real world weights of Katanas and Claymores. A Claymore should NOT weigh twice as much as a Katana. Not only is it much less useful than the Katana. It also weights so much, it can hardly ever be used.

So fine. Don't increase Katana weight (even though 3 blocks doesn't mean 3kg). But something should happen because 98% of the berserkers use Katanas.


I've seen Katanas that weight much more than 1 kg. (though not much. About 1.2 kg) But that's not the point. M4 Carbines weight about 3kg but take up 6 blocks. AK47 weights 5kg but takes 6 blocks. Blocks are not "kg"
Hey, shouldn't the M4 weight 5 blocks? Why does it weight the same as the AK47?

 

[FluX]

You guys need to actually read what you're posting. You're looking really silly right now...
Leave the balancing honestly otherwise you WILL ruin the game. Aze this was not exactly directed entirely at you as you have some amazing facts/stats backing you up but I disagree with half of what you said. So do keep it up but try keep them realistic

 

[greenlemonade]

You guys need to actually read what you're posting. You're looking really silly right now...
Leave the balancing honestly otherwise you WILL ruin the game. Aze this was not exactly directed entirely at you as you have some amazing facts/stats backing you up but I disagree with half of what you said. So do keep it up but try keep them realistic

Flux, are you blind? I give real world facts and stats. You just don't want anything to change. You have some kindof crazy view that everything is fine and balanced when an idiot could see that its not.
Not a HUGE deal. The game still kicks ***. But I'm sick of you always disagreeing with ANYONE who suggests a change.

 

[FluX]

Flux, are you blind? I give real world facts and stats. You just don't want anything to change. You have some kindof crazy view that everything is fine and balanced when an idiot could see that its not.
Not a HUGE deal. The game still kicks ***. But I'm sick of you always disagreeing with ANYONE who suggests a change.

Im guessing you never read my first sentence or so? Here it is again:

You guys need to actually read what you're posting. You're looking really silly right now...

Aze gives not real life stats but real game stats. That makes a huge difference as he says "change this to this as it'll do this but it wont allow more then this to happen cause it needs this". Random people who don't know much, for example you, should stay away from saying "this needs to be changed". If you really think so, make your own patch up and see what people think otherwise don't bother complaining as much as you do. I mod the game just like a few others and I spend hours upon hours fixing my server up to work so smoothly that people will see my server as an updated vanilla server and they do. Opinions are opinions so stop getting so offended when I tell people like you that it can't happen the way you want it as most wont agree with you like me for example. I stay away from threads like this to stop idiots (yes im now saying the truth - great isn't it! ) telling me I don't know anything and should stay away. Opinion is opinion.

 

[greenlemonade]

We need to chill out with the personal attacks and talk about the game.

First,
Real world stats MATTER. They don't matter as much as general balance and fun-factor but TW obviously put a lot of work into making the weapons behave very similar to there real-world counterparts.


I have already described in detail why the LAW sucks but I can do it again.
A demo using the LAW is severely limited in his loadout due to its tremendous weight. It has very specific uses. It is great for clearing out a huge group of Zeds, but if they are spit into many small groups you a SOL. It can stun a Scrake but does CRUMMY damage to him and is that really a demo's job when a LAR can do it with ease for a FRACTION of the price. It does great damage to Fleshpounds, but an M32 can actually do more DPS to it and blow him back (this opens you up to attack while reloading your 6 rounds, but you are able to switch to any number of weapons to finish off the rest).


Now the Katana,
Through personal observation, roughly 9/10 berserkers buys a Katana the 1st or 2nd round and sticks with it. Everyone I've ever talked to has agreed that the Katana is by far the best. Now wouldn't it be great if the berserker had more viable choices for weapons without looking like an unprepared dick.
Claymore and Katana have almost identical DPS, but Katana can dispatch groups of weaker enemies about 30% faster with its faster rate of fire. Katana is also half the weight and costs less.
Berserkers can also chain ZED time with Katana, but not with the Claymore.
A berserker can defiantly carry the Claymore as a secondary or save the weight and money by getting an Axe.
The Chainsaw has a great secondary fire, but is too heavy to have a decent loadout, gives no speed bonus, is loud which hampers not only your observation skills, but that of your teammates and it doesn't have a good range. All these negatives do not justify its good DPS.


I'm out of time so I must go. Flux, the whole point of making suggestions on the forum is so TW takes notice and makes changes to the game that make it better. I am very sorry if those changes would break your mods ect. I know what that is like and its pissed me off in the past.


Things I agree with you about:
Machete is awesome
M14 is awesome
Leveraction could use a slight nerf.

 

[FluX]

You're obviously missing the point so im leaving it at that.

 

[greenlemonade]

Quick recap,

I suggested a weight change for balance purposes mentioning the objects RL weights as additional content:

Increase Katana weight to 4 blocks. (Katanas weigh almost 4 lb in rl)
Decrease Claymore weight to 5 blocks. (Claymores weigh about 5.5 lb)
Switch the prices of the Katana and Claymore. (Katanas are more valuable)
Add it to slot 4 (like the Chainsaw) for ease of use.


The Claymore would then be worth using. Even though you can't chain zed time, it has a good range and dps and can stun Scrakes. Weight matters a LOT more than people think.

FluX then agreed with me.

I think maybe a weight change is enough but nothing else should change personally. It's the "elite" weapon compared to Katana and that is how I think it should stay.

I also suggested switching the prices:

What about weight change plus price switch with Katana. I think we can ALL agree that the katana is more useful in general.

So:
Claymore: 1000 dosh
Katana: 1250 dosh

It wouldn't hurt to make the Katana weigh 4 blocks, but I'm not sure if a lot of people would support that.

Then people started pointing out that Katanas don't always weigh nearly 4 lb.

Maybe when it's made out of a sharpened car leaf-spring. A decent-grade katana weights about 0.9 to 1.1 kilogram. That's about 2.2 lbs.

I then made the mistake of arguing about weapon weight and the metric system and we all got off topic.

Then Flux came back and called us idiots in so many words. Then insulted me personally and failed to respond to my reasonable reply.

 

[Mike Powell]

I prefer Katana. I'm traditionalist and I prefer old weapons. I used these new, only to get achievements, then never played with them again. I don't like Claymore because of the Speed Attack. It seems it's strond and sharp blade, but I prefer Katana anyway

 

[FluX]

Wow you really do have a problem. Continue this in the PM or shut up already. Being completely immature about this all.

 

[AriesTR]

What if they claymore could 'charge' the altfire similar to the husk cannon?

 

[Left 4 Dinner]

What if they claymore could 'charge' the altfire similar to the husk cannon?

In the words of Ash Harding "Hell no."