Who wants crazed realism?

[Offensive name]

 

[Avtomat]

... and consequently it will be much, much better. It's only going to be charged for money if the quality is fantastic. If it's merely good, then it will be free (or so TWI has stated)

lol... If "fantastic quality" for them is like RO2 right after release, people who want to buy it should start sparing their money now, because RS is probably gonna be an other 40-50 bucks. If the RS devs make a game with less flaws and bugs then RO2 was on release, I won't know whether to laugh or cry.

no offense TWI

 

[Lone Rebel]

Still i never heard of any of these episodes, and i'd be gald to have some links or something, thanks in advance

Edit: just saw your pictures now. Those mean nothing, i can show you sqaures full of little "balillas" with musqets and uniforms, but they never actually fought, were just mere propaganda, as i suspect are those.

 

[Avtomat]

pics of kids

From wikipedia.

....Many other anti-fascist resistance movements across Nazi-occupied Europe consisted partially of children (for example, Szare Szeregi in Poland). A number of child soldiers served in the Soviet Union's armed forces during the war. In some cases, orphans also unofficially joined the Soviet Red Army. Such children were affectionately known as "son of the regiment" (Russian: сын полка) and sometimes willingly performed military missions such as reconnaissance

Original link : [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children[/URL]
That isn't the same as using civis as meatshields.

And about those women, they were officialy in the army/airforce. There was a large number of female medics, snipers and pilots in the Soviet military of WWII.
No meatshielding there either.

 

[Andrew Blake]

I remembered a movie were they killed a child hmm. Anyway not common and It's quite grotesque thing to add to. Manhunt level of gross IMO.

Those pics don't mean anything btw.

 

[Offensive name]

From wikipedia.
Original link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_childrenhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children
That isn't the same as using civis as meatshields.

And about those women, they were officialy in the army/airforce. There was a large number of female medics, snipers and pilots in the Soviet military of WWII.
No meatshielding there either.

Leon Degrelle mentions that his soldiers had to fight a battalion of women soldiers once and that this was hard for them because many were quite pretty. From his book "Campaign in Russia".

http://www.archive.org/details/Campaign-in-Russia-Leon-Degrelle
p154

 

[Lone Rebel]

I know of female fighting battalions (they date back from WWI)

Simply put, i'd like to see some meatshields evidence, or link, or whatever (didn't know that word in english, ty) because i never heard of those and i'd be quite interested to know if it is just an urban legend (like communist eating childrens) or it had some real battlefield deploy.

 

[Cyper]

If Rising Storm is a success with US audiences, and TWI has loads of cash.. they should really put in females.

I heard a rumor on the internetz that said TWI was about to put female soldiers in the game but that they were replaced with the MkB.

 

[[Mad_Murdock]]

I heard a rumor on the internetz that said TWI was about to put female soldiers in the game but that they were replaced with the MkB.

Dang, id rather have a woman than an mkb

 

[shadowmoses]

I really feel like this would come off as a bit gimmicky. Mine-Dogs? The tanking system is screwed to high heaven as it is. There is absolutely zero meat to the tanking system and putting dogs in would make it even more absurd.
And having a zerg-rush-esque system would make this even less about about team play. None of these things adds anything to the game or fixes problems that occur in the now. its just adds things that sound cool to a game that is already filled with gameplay issues that need to be addressed.

 

[Offensive name]

Nothing is impossible. The real time strategy game "blitzkrieg" had females only snipers on the russian side. Panzer general 3 scorched earth had a pic of a russian kid soldier as an officer.
It depends a lot on how things are implemented.
But granted that they would be extremely controversial in a fps.

 

[The Commissar]

4- Russian putting women and children in front of their soldier while attacking
(this would make the game extremelly controversial but it was really used)

At first I thought that this would be a serious thread, but then I read what points were written. The dog one was bad enough (considering they were rarer than the MKb), but #4 is just ridiculously stupid. Never was this done...

I think that you might have got this "information" from a Nazi-Party-approved place.

*Edit* Children did fight (though not entirely constant), but mostly as partisans or militia. I have no idea where you would get the idea that they were cannon-fodder.

 

[MacX]

I remembered a movie were they killed a child hmm. Anyway not common and It's quite grotesque thing to add to. Manhunt level of gross IMO.

Those pics don't mean anything btw.

In German movie "Stalingrad" they did shoot one. He was a Soviet spy and executed with other civilians, I think, because no one was willing to oppose this evil Major.

But this would be extremely inappropriate for a game.

 

[Cyper]

There is really no need to even question the fact that children were killed and used. Children and teenagers were defending Hitler's bunker when Berlin was at its last legs, Russians raped and killed civilians, kids were tortured, and beaten in the concentration camps. In the book SS-staten (Swedish title) (original title: Der SS staat - Das System der Deutchen Konzentrationslager) there are various descriptions of children being killed. One of them involves a nazi soldier grabbing a womens baby from her, holding the baby's feets, swinging the baby into a wall crushing its head. War isn't clean in any sense and its fought not only with the enemy, but with civilians among. The Vietnam war is a great example of this, or even the Iraqi war where children and accidentally shot and killed by soldiers. Civilians will always suffer; women, men, babies, children, teenagers. Asking if children got killed, or were used in the battlefield, is like asking: Do people get killed in war?

I do think that it would be interesting with a game that would portray war as.. well - as war, for once. Doing this would be extremely controversial though and there is a major risk that this very game would be banned in many countries. For instance, Germany. But in my humble opinion it can sometimes feel controversial to glorify war aswell - not to speak of the high amount of retardation for people that applaud glorification of war.

 

[MacX]

I do think that it would be interesting with a game that would portray war as.. well - as war, for once. Doing this would be extremely controversial though and there is a major risk that this very game would be banned in many countries. For instance, Germany. But in my humble opinion it can sometimes feel controversial to glorify war aswell - not to speak of the high amount of retardation for people that applaud glorification of war.

Don't know how you guys feel about playing military games. I'm having fun while competing with others in a somehow realistic gameplay fashion. I don't care about dead horses or people lying around if that's what's needed to build up atmosphere. I just ignore it.

I also wouldn't be shocked if there'd be dead children or women, I know what war can look like.
But I also know how other people regard our hobby... They see the need to kill "innocent people" in a game that "glorifies nazism". That's just one unnecessary feature that would make the public freak out again. And we're going to be the bad ones playing something like this.

 

[Lone Rebel]

There is really no need to even question the fact that children were killed and used. Children and teenagers were defending Hitler's bunker when Berlin was at its last legs, Russians raped and killed civilians, kids were tortured, and beaten in the concentration camps. In the book SS-staten (Swedish title) (original title: Der SS staat - Das System der Deutchen Konzentrationslager) there are various descriptions of children being killed. One of them involves a nazi soldier grabbing a womens baby from her, holding the baby's feets, swinging the baby into a wall crushing its head. War isn't clean in any sense and its fought not only with the enemy, but with civilians among. The Vietnam war is a great example of this, or even the Iraqi war where children and accidentally shot and killed by soldiers. Civilians will always suffer; women, men, babies, children, teenagers. Asking if children got killed, or were used in the battlefield, is like asking: Do people get killed in war?

I do think that it would be interesting with a game that would portray war as.. well - as war, for once. Doing this would be extremely controversial though and there is a major risk that this very game would be banned in many countries. For instance, Germany. But in my humble opinion it can sometimes feel controversial to glorify war aswell - not to speak of the high amount of retardation for people that applaud glorification of war.

Very nice post man, I share your vision completely but one point.

The various atrocity made in war times (by every army, even the "good ones") are almost always made in "non battle times" In battle there are collateral victims, mostly made by artillery, but I think soldiers were fighting soldiers in first place, and won't care much about civilians running away from battle. Refugees are often people kicked from their houses by either common sense or soldiers palcing mgs, hqs, etc etc.

So, our little "evil hobby" doesn't need to care about this aspect, since we play in battle, which, for scenery purpose, could contain civilian corpses. (but I don't really deem it necessary, by any means...) But that is all.

Surely we will never see what you say, surely not in videogame, probably not in a movie, and hopefully not in real life, but, i'm afraid, that's the most probable of the three Oh, well, too much pessimism today

Oh, and about glorify war.

War is the product of propaganda over minds. In order to have war, you need people willing to die for you, for your ideas, which they must consider a good idea. Everyone was fighting for what they thought to be a better world, even nazis, yes. They weren't just "wrong" or "evil" as many thinks (as if germans had evilness in their dna...) they were fooled, like were italians, japanese, russians, britains, americans, everyone was fooled. Everyone. And once the majority of the people is fooled, you got very little choice but to follow the mass.

There is nothing glorious about this. I can fight for my ideals, not for someone's else one. Every people wants the SAME THINGS. Every people wants them. Yes, even the germans wanted them, and fought for that (it's a long story to shovel all the **** poured on it for all these years though)
I don't even have to tell you what these things are, we all know, more or less.
Well, for those that doesn't need to be told what they want, of course

 

[shadowmoses]

There is really no need to even question the fact that children were killed and used. Children and teenagers were defending Hitler's bunker when Berlin was at its last legs, Russians raped and killed civilians, kids were tortured, and beaten in the concentration camps. In the book SS-staten (Swedish title) (original title: Der SS staat - Das System der Deutchen Konzentrationslager) there are various descriptions of children being killed. One of them involves a nazi soldier grabbing a womens baby from her, holding the baby's feets, swinging the baby into a wall crushing its head. War isn't clean in any sense and its fought not only with the enemy, but with civilians among. The Vietnam war is a great example of this, or even the Iraqi war where children and accidentally shot and killed by soldiers. Civilians will always suffer; women, men, babies, children, teenagers. Asking if children got killed, or were used in the battlefield, is like asking: Do people get killed in war?

I do think that it would be interesting with a game that would portray war as.. well - as war, for once. Doing this would be extremely controversial though and there is a major risk that this very game would be banned in many countries. For instance, Germany. But in my humble opinion it can sometimes feel controversial to glorify war aswell - not to speak of the high amount of retardation for people that applaud glorification of war.

I find it disgusting that people are even considering the notion of shooting at children. We don't need to kill women and children in a game to feel the brutality of war. There are lists and lists and lists of other realities we could put into this game. I find it quite appalling. People get raped during war. Should we add that? Should we add a mode to gas people too? That really happened. Why not add that if you are so hell bent on details? We all know it happened. We don't need to act it out. We play a game that is related to some of the most controversial and sensitive topics in the history. There is a fine line we tread when we produce games like this. I don't feel that RO2 has crossed any lines, but this notion of playing as and shooting at children would be considered as crossing that line by many people, indeed. Again, you don't need these brutalities portrayed in the game to feel the brutality of war. Its just adding things on top of a game that arguably already needs to be refined.

 

[Sensemann]

I agree with shadowmoses. Usually, I think that Cyper is a very valuable forum member, but I honestly have to say that the request of portraying the murder of women and children in a video game is very disturbing to say the least.

 

[The_Emperor]

I don't care who is pointing a gun at me, could be a ten year old boy wearing RKKA uniform, I'd still shoot him. He's brainwashed and will always try to kill the German animal or as one bolshevik poster once said: "Officers and men in green greatcoats are no humans! I really don't divide into male, female and adult or child if someone is threatening my life. If I get the chance I will always kill them.

In German movie "Stalingrad" they did shoot one. He was a Soviet spy and executed with other civilians, I think, because no one was willing to oppose this evil Major.

But this would be extremely inappropriate for a game.

Shooting civilians and POWs. Yes, would do. Honestly what is the use of you saying "no, won't do that?" They pull you out of the rank of the executionsquad and put you in the ranks of the to-be-executed. I'd pull the trigger, cause not doing so ends my life and expands his life my few minutes.


Rape is a whole different story. No matter how long I would have walked through Russia and not been in contact with a women/girl. I wouldn't do it. Rape is 180

 

[RJ_MacReady]

I don't care who is pointing a gun at me, could be a ten year old boy wearing RKKA uniform, I'd still shoot him. He's brainwashed and will always try to kill the German animal or as one bolshevik poster once said: "Officers and men in green greatcoats are no humans! I really don't divide into male, female and adult or child if someone is threatening my life. If I get the chance I will always kill them.(...)

Just listen to yourself.