Which class takes the most skill to be good at?
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Depends how you play the class. Sharpshooter with Xbow/HC? M14/LAR? M14/HC/MK23? LAR/HC/MK23/44?
Out of the common perks/loadouts, I personally think Axe/PSG/HSG as Support is one of the easiest roles to play, and AK47/SCARMK17 Commando the hardest to play well (Or maybe M14/HC/MK23 Sharpshooter, due to inability to stun scrakes and lack of M14 penetration)
Katana/Axe/LAR or Claymore/LAR Berserker is probably the easiest when you adjust to it, but some people will take longer to adapt to the hit-and-run play style without taking damage.
Aside from that, it's a very situational question.
Who else is on the team? Where are you holding? Are you kiting? What perk level? Are you an experienced KF player? Are you an experienced FPS player?
Out of the common perks/loadouts, I personally think Axe/PSG/HSG as Support is one of the easiest roles to play, and AK47/SCARMK17 Commando the hardest to play well (Or maybe M14/HC/MK23 Sharpshooter, due to inability to stun scrakes and lack of M14 penetration)
Katana/Axe/LAR or Claymore/LAR Berserker is probably the easiest when you adjust to it, but some people will take longer to adapt to the hit-and-run play style without taking damage.
Aside from that, it's a very situational question.
Who else is on the team? Where are you holding? Are you kiting? What perk level? Are you an experienced KF player? Are you an experienced FPS player?
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Demo requires a degree of player skill to maximize damage output while keeping yourself shielded as much as possible from return damage (if you have no one to cover you, that is.) Knowing where to place your grenades (whether to pick a wall near the zeds or the floor) is crucial in some circumstances.
I've always found M14/LAR SS to be quite difficult but that's only because I'm not a born sniper like the majority of FPS gamers (I prefer support/healing role, thus Medic/Cleric/Priest/whatever.) That and TWI's wonky hitboxes, plus lag, equals not so good Sharpie.
But from what I can tell from playing with some of the "best" people in the community, they seem to have M14/LAR SS down to a science so again, this is just me not being as good.
AA12 Support is widely considered "Noob Mode" because it's usually only used on Hard or below, where you can be as confrontational as possible on Scrakes or Fleshies. Above that, it tends to get you killed quick unless you throw on some predamage before letting the AA12 shells fly.
.......... Then you have Zerkers. XD I prefer to not say anything more on that one.
I've always found M14/LAR SS to be quite difficult but that's only because I'm not a born sniper like the majority of FPS gamers (I prefer support/healing role, thus Medic/Cleric/Priest/whatever.) That and TWI's wonky hitboxes, plus lag, equals not so good Sharpie.
But from what I can tell from playing with some of the "best" people in the community, they seem to have M14/LAR SS down to a science so again, this is just me not being as good.AA12 Support is widely considered "Noob Mode" because it's usually only used on Hard or below, where you can be as confrontational as possible on Scrakes or Fleshies. Above that, it tends to get you killed quick unless you throw on some predamage before letting the AA12 shells fly.
.......... Then you have Zerkers. XD I prefer to not say anything more on that one.
I can't zerk for the life of me but I'd say M14 sharp requires a fair bit of skill... commando on higher difficulties might as well
as for support/demo I'd say those classes require more combat sense than actual skill in aim... when you know what to do and when to do it you can dominate pretty easily without much in the way of precise aim
as for support/demo I'd say those classes require more combat sense than actual skill in aim... when you know what to do and when to do it you can dominate pretty easily without much in the way of precise aim
Hard question to answer because a lot of the perks are so different that what one person might find easy another person might not.
Sharpshooter requires precision and good specimen prioritization. There's a very very high skill ceiling for this. On the other hand, someone who has good aim might not know a lot of other things that would make them a good player, like where to stand to be the safest, which kite routes are good for sharpshooter, etc. There's really a lot more to think about than aim-->click - this goes for any perk actually.
Demo and Firebug are similar in that not knowing how to play the perk at an adequate level makes it extremely easy to be a hindrance to your team. Is it hard to play either? Not particularly. But there is a threshold of knowledge needed in order to make the perks effective and then becoming 'good' at the perk would be maximizing the effectiveness. It doesn't take much to realize this when you all of a sudden play with a good demolitionist, and fleshpoudns - even multiple - barely live past 2 seconds as soon as they're spotted and the team always seems to be safe because of great crowd control.
Commando needs to be quick on their feet and the trigger - there is tons of trash to clear in this game and with the AR's you're the best bet for killing it. Specimen priority becomes HUGE for this perk, and it changes based on what kind of teammates are standing behind you along what kind of specimens are in front of you. Too many times I see a siren, a husk, 4 crawlers, a few stalkers and both a sharpshooter and commando are focusing down the siren and husk - only to soon be overrun by the stalkers and crawlers. Or a fleshpound comes out with a siren escort and the commando suddenly develops a frozen trigger finger.
Beserker often gets pinned as 'the hardest perk to play' but I disagree. It is just different. It involves learning a dodge & weave style of play because you're using melee weapons instead of shooting. The run speed makes kiting an attractive choice but imo, zerk also allows for the sloppiest playing because of damage resistance along with the speed. It means the difference between a good beserker and a bad beserker can be huge - but they might both be able to beat a difficult wave negating the relevance of any skill difference. Regardless, it does take some getting used to and there is a certain level of adequacy required to play the perk well that might not be immediately obvious to people first playing this perk (which I think contributes to the 'zerk is hard' thing).
Medic is pretty debatable. What does being an extremely good medic mean? Keeping the team healed? tanking when necessary? Also killing trash? being able to solo each specimen if required? Medic seems like after you take the 'keeping the team healed' part out of the equation, being skilled at every other perk will help you the most at being a good medic. For example, a Medic who is a very good sharpshooter as well will probably be better off carrying an m14 or Lever action while a Medic who is also a very good Demolitionist might benefit the team more by carrying an m32 grenade launcher. Both would be great medics, but have completely different styles and set of skills
Support - it's pretty obvious that this perk has the lowest 'be effective' threshhold but again, there is a world of difference between a support that knows when, what, and how to shoot things and one that just mouse1 shotguns everything on sight. Being able to pull off combos and techniques consistently takes practice. The differences between a mediocre support and a great support I think are very subtle but make a big impact. For example, a great support will have made EVERY shot an effective one, and if in a situation where he is one of a few alive and clutching out a wave, won't have to worry about ammo as much as a mediocre support. Little things like this DO add up and can be the difference between a wipe and surviving in a lot of cases.
That's really what makes any one good at any perk, it's mastery of the little nuances that pop up and can be situational along with survival fundamentals like basic perk skills, map knowledge, specimen priority, and good decision making. Just imagine all the times you've been killed by that one crawler that surprised you from behind or were one shot short of getting that fleshpound/scrake. Maybe had you avoided some husk shots or any earlier little bit of damage you would have had enough armor left to save you. That's what I mean by the little things, and how they can be very subtle, and can apply to every perk differently. This is how a sharpshooter who has mediocre aim can seem better than the sharpshooter who has laser-shots but keeps getting ganked by crawlers by standing infront or under spawns or infront of every ones LoS.
Things like accuracy have an almost infinite skill ceiling and benefit every perk but I would say it benefits sharpshooter the most. There are too many other things involved along with that and the other perks to say Sharpshooter takes 'the most skill to be good at', but I think that will be the answer most people will give you.
Sharpshooter requires precision and good specimen prioritization. There's a very very high skill ceiling for this. On the other hand, someone who has good aim might not know a lot of other things that would make them a good player, like where to stand to be the safest, which kite routes are good for sharpshooter, etc. There's really a lot more to think about than aim-->click - this goes for any perk actually.
Demo and Firebug are similar in that not knowing how to play the perk at an adequate level makes it extremely easy to be a hindrance to your team. Is it hard to play either? Not particularly. But there is a threshold of knowledge needed in order to make the perks effective and then becoming 'good' at the perk would be maximizing the effectiveness. It doesn't take much to realize this when you all of a sudden play with a good demolitionist, and fleshpoudns - even multiple - barely live past 2 seconds as soon as they're spotted and the team always seems to be safe because of great crowd control.
Commando needs to be quick on their feet and the trigger - there is tons of trash to clear in this game and with the AR's you're the best bet for killing it. Specimen priority becomes HUGE for this perk, and it changes based on what kind of teammates are standing behind you along what kind of specimens are in front of you. Too many times I see a siren, a husk, 4 crawlers, a few stalkers and both a sharpshooter and commando are focusing down the siren and husk - only to soon be overrun by the stalkers and crawlers. Or a fleshpound comes out with a siren escort and the commando suddenly develops a frozen trigger finger.
Beserker often gets pinned as 'the hardest perk to play' but I disagree. It is just different. It involves learning a dodge & weave style of play because you're using melee weapons instead of shooting. The run speed makes kiting an attractive choice but imo, zerk also allows for the sloppiest playing because of damage resistance along with the speed. It means the difference between a good beserker and a bad beserker can be huge - but they might both be able to beat a difficult wave negating the relevance of any skill difference. Regardless, it does take some getting used to and there is a certain level of adequacy required to play the perk well that might not be immediately obvious to people first playing this perk (which I think contributes to the 'zerk is hard' thing).
Medic is pretty debatable. What does being an extremely good medic mean? Keeping the team healed? tanking when necessary? Also killing trash? being able to solo each specimen if required? Medic seems like after you take the 'keeping the team healed' part out of the equation, being skilled at every other perk will help you the most at being a good medic. For example, a Medic who is a very good sharpshooter as well will probably be better off carrying an m14 or Lever action while a Medic who is also a very good Demolitionist might benefit the team more by carrying an m32 grenade launcher. Both would be great medics, but have completely different styles and set of skills
Support - it's pretty obvious that this perk has the lowest 'be effective' threshhold but again, there is a world of difference between a support that knows when, what, and how to shoot things and one that just mouse1 shotguns everything on sight. Being able to pull off combos and techniques consistently takes practice. The differences between a mediocre support and a great support I think are very subtle but make a big impact. For example, a great support will have made EVERY shot an effective one, and if in a situation where he is one of a few alive and clutching out a wave, won't have to worry about ammo as much as a mediocre support. Little things like this DO add up and can be the difference between a wipe and surviving in a lot of cases.
That's really what makes any one good at any perk, it's mastery of the little nuances that pop up and can be situational along with survival fundamentals like basic perk skills, map knowledge, specimen priority, and good decision making. Just imagine all the times you've been killed by that one crawler that surprised you from behind or were one shot short of getting that fleshpound/scrake. Maybe had you avoided some husk shots or any earlier little bit of damage you would have had enough armor left to save you. That's what I mean by the little things, and how they can be very subtle, and can apply to every perk differently. This is how a sharpshooter who has mediocre aim can seem better than the sharpshooter who has laser-shots but keeps getting ganked by crawlers by standing infront or under spawns or infront of every ones LoS.
Things like accuracy have an almost infinite skill ceiling and benefit every perk but I would say it benefits sharpshooter the most. There are too many other things involved along with that and the other perks to say Sharpshooter takes 'the most skill to be good at', but I think that will be the answer most people will give you.
Karsey22 gave a pretty great answer.
Do note that this question can be answered two different ways.
1) Which class has the highest skill floor?
Skill floor is the amount of skill required before one becomes useful as a particular perk. A player who has not met the skill floor with his perk will be dead weight; if this player left the team would have an easier time due to less and weaker specimens. Support, Commando, and Medic are all quite easy to learn the basics with. Firebug isn't bad either, but an otherwise decent Firebug can cause problems by blinding the team and lighting Scrake/FP. Berserker, Sharpshooter, and Demo are probably the toughest to get useful with. Sharpshooter is the one class that has to headshot to be justified. Demo is a menace to himself and blinds the team when played poorly. Berserker is played very different from the other classes and puts himself at great risk on the front lines.
2) Which class has the highest skill ceiling?
Skill ceiling is the point at which additional skill stops having any noticeable impact on performance. The classes with the lowest skill ceiling are probably the Firebug, Demo, and Medic* - these classes are the least tied to precision aim and headshotting. Berserker and Support have a middling skill ceiling. They aren't completely dependent on precision aim but have to master some difficult techniques (FP kiting, Support combo to solo Scrake/FP). Sharpshooter and Commando probably have the highest skill ceiling as they benefit the most from headshotting and have quick firing high capacity weapons to do so with.
*The Medic is difficult to place properly. The essentials of the Medic's job aren't particularly hard, so long as allies cooperate (when players move randomly all the time for no reason hitting with darts requires good aim and prediction). However, to maximize usefulness the Medic has to have a role in combat when healing is not needed, and this role should be based upon the team's need. Thus a Medic will need the skill to play as a pseudo Commando, Sharpshooter, Berserker, and possibly Demo. Whether this skill should be lumped in with Medic or the class it is mimicking is debatable.
Do note that this question can be answered two different ways.
1) Which class has the highest skill floor?
Skill floor is the amount of skill required before one becomes useful as a particular perk. A player who has not met the skill floor with his perk will be dead weight; if this player left the team would have an easier time due to less and weaker specimens. Support, Commando, and Medic are all quite easy to learn the basics with. Firebug isn't bad either, but an otherwise decent Firebug can cause problems by blinding the team and lighting Scrake/FP. Berserker, Sharpshooter, and Demo are probably the toughest to get useful with. Sharpshooter is the one class that has to headshot to be justified. Demo is a menace to himself and blinds the team when played poorly. Berserker is played very different from the other classes and puts himself at great risk on the front lines.
2) Which class has the highest skill ceiling?
Skill ceiling is the point at which additional skill stops having any noticeable impact on performance. The classes with the lowest skill ceiling are probably the Firebug, Demo, and Medic* - these classes are the least tied to precision aim and headshotting. Berserker and Support have a middling skill ceiling. They aren't completely dependent on precision aim but have to master some difficult techniques (FP kiting, Support combo to solo Scrake/FP). Sharpshooter and Commando probably have the highest skill ceiling as they benefit the most from headshotting and have quick firing high capacity weapons to do so with.
*The Medic is difficult to place properly. The essentials of the Medic's job aren't particularly hard, so long as allies cooperate (when players move randomly all the time for no reason hitting with darts requires good aim and prediction). However, to maximize usefulness the Medic has to have a role in combat when healing is not needed, and this role should be based upon the team's need. Thus a Medic will need the skill to play as a pseudo Commando, Sharpshooter, Berserker, and possibly Demo. Whether this skill should be lumped in with Medic or the class it is mimicking is debatable.
Rambo Zerker is a big challenge to me. Especially when kiting FP while a bunch of **** is in the way, but that's just me.
Mostly I think Medic is a challenge since what the last guy said, shooting darts at other people requires good aiming since they keep strafing. I find it annoying so I have to switch to syringe and heal them like that. I really hate how my team is good at "dodging" though.
Mostly I think Medic is a challenge since what the last guy said, shooting darts at other people requires good aiming since they keep strafing. I find it annoying so I have to switch to syringe and heal them like that. I really hate how my team is good at "dodging" though.
Which class takes the most skill to be GOOD at?
Berserker
A Berserker who tanks for his team on the front line is in the hardest role of the game, face blocking and juking crawlers, gorefasts and Husk shots while still being strong enough to block a fleshie and or a scrake makes for a very demanding task.
A player who can do this is the rarest and most beautiful sight of all.
Any player who kites around the map without killing at least 20 specimens a minute sucks *** through a straw.
So the fact that by picking Berserker you are immediately tarred with that "leave the team for dead" scumbag brush, but stiff uppper lip my never seen friends, you are honoured in spirit.
Berserker
A Berserker who tanks for his team on the front line is in the hardest role of the game, face blocking and juking crawlers, gorefasts and Husk shots while still being strong enough to block a fleshie and or a scrake makes for a very demanding task.
A player who can do this is the rarest and most beautiful sight of all.
Any player who kites around the map without killing at least 20 specimens a minute sucks *** through a straw.
So the fact that by picking Berserker you are immediately tarred with that "leave the team for dead" scumbag brush, but stiff uppper lip my never seen friends, you are honoured in spirit.
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Switching to syringe is a good decision, especially with the wonky hit detection on the darts.
Better safe than sorry, y'know.
I have to pretty much join your view on SS and Mando being hardest, thus still most rewarding perks in the game.
Personally, i just love mando', mainly the flexibility it offers, and is one of most rewarding perks to play.
Sharpshooter with M14 & LAR is greatly thought to be the one of the hardest, and not without reason. But the rewards it offers are great beyond words.
Btw, just hit 600 hours glass, mostly playing mando, 29.8 million damage
Personally, i just love mando', mainly the flexibility it offers, and is one of most rewarding perks to play.
Sharpshooter with M14 & LAR is greatly thought to be the one of the hardest, and not without reason. But the rewards it offers are great beyond words.
Btw, just hit 600 hours glass, mostly playing mando, 29.8 million damage
Sharpshooter probably has the highest skill ceiling.
Zerker probably is the easist class to hop on and survive anything.
(In my opinion)
For general support players I'd rate them on the easier end of things for the camping group, while things like the FP/Nade combo and Scrake Upper do bump the challenge up the AOE damage and penetration of shotguns makes dealing with rough spawns much much easier.
Zerker probably is the easist class to hop on and survive anything.
(In my opinion)
For general support players I'd rate them on the easier end of things for the camping group, while things like the FP/Nade combo and Scrake Upper do bump the challenge up the AOE damage and penetration of shotguns makes dealing with rough spawns much much easier.
I still have yet to see this kind of Zerker, even on HoE games.
With the way people talk about it, seems like nothing more than a myth.
I still have yet to see this kind of Zerker, even on HoE games.
With the way people talk about it, seems like nothing more than a myth.
my friend plays zerker that way
he dies a lot
I still have yet to see this kind of Zerker, even on HoE games.
With the way people talk about it, seems like nothing more than a myth.
Thankfully that is the case, because this kind of zerker is amazing at body blocking shots from a commando and m14/Lar sharp. Even after the aoe buff to weapons its doubtful he can keep up with the kill speed of a good m14/lar sharp and won't even get close to a commando.
(Support, Demo and Bow/HC/MK sharps get penetration so its less of an issue)
This is the kind of Zerker who you have to know to work with effectively. This is how I do things, and my friends have learned over the years (If I can get a Melee weapon, I use it) how to aim around me.
Sadly, I tend to play with my friends more often than not and won't really hunt down games on my own, but that's because my group knows what to expect from me, and I know what to expect from them. (I get called back if I go too many steps out of our choke points, which may happen in the middle of a horde of specimen.)
To answer that... I think we should get the limits straight, not every class is capable of killing everything quickly.
A good commando who can kill thrash and improve ZED time to the max when team is cornered is much more valuable than a facetanking zerker in my opinion. But actually Commando is pretty easy to play because there are always other team members to blame on when you or half of the team get wiped on the floor. All in all there's a very rough and thick line between a bad and good Commando. You'll be cool as long as you don't piss off big targets and focus fire them with the team, once you got rid of pest of course. In a team play Commando most likely ignore the team's situation and kill trash specimen. Behind all that hurdle, if they can check for the health bar of the big targets and focus fire in time they're good players. Commando has no high skill ceiling to be honest, especially in a team game but requires at least medium knowledge about the class. All in all, they're good Z.E.D carriers slowing down the big targets and cleaning trash is not a thing to be trifled with.
I for one always think it requires high amount of skill to use Sharpshooter with M14+Dual HC combination. It always require you to put distance between certain targets to be effective and pretty much good at headshots. People think most problematic spec should be Scrake since you can't stun them off, but I think it's Husk. Scrakes are rather easy as long as you can put distance between them; enrage them with M14 then switch to HCs and empty them to its head. At higher difficulties Husks are a bane to the Sharp's existence. They're dreadful to be confronted from a distance among the horde, but not impossible. Even in a team M14+DHC sharp requires very high amount of skill to be useful, especially at higher difficulties where Crossbow has lower dps.
Everyone sees zerkers as sloppy players but I think not, game simply spawns specimen depending on the dominant class in team. When you have 2 or more zerks in team you'll most likely notice increased spawns of Crawlers, Sirens and Husks; Stalkers simply position and throw themselves to you to swarm you off. At higher difficulties Berserker require determined gameplay of kiting and elimination of small trash specimen one by one until big baddies such as Fleshpound left. Even with low skill, a high level zerker could draw aggro easily away from team while kiting the specimen around, while a higher skill mastered zerk can easily kite and kill hordes of specimen without having to stop. That's actually ensured with the new toys of the zerk.
A good commando who can kill thrash and improve ZED time to the max when team is cornered is much more valuable than a facetanking zerker in my opinion. But actually Commando is pretty easy to play because there are always other team members to blame on when you or half of the team get wiped on the floor. All in all there's a very rough and thick line between a bad and good Commando. You'll be cool as long as you don't piss off big targets and focus fire them with the team, once you got rid of pest of course. In a team play Commando most likely ignore the team's situation and kill trash specimen. Behind all that hurdle, if they can check for the health bar of the big targets and focus fire in time they're good players. Commando has no high skill ceiling to be honest, especially in a team game but requires at least medium knowledge about the class. All in all, they're good Z.E.D carriers slowing down the big targets and cleaning trash is not a thing to be trifled with.
I for one always think it requires high amount of skill to use Sharpshooter with M14+Dual HC combination. It always require you to put distance between certain targets to be effective and pretty much good at headshots. People think most problematic spec should be Scrake since you can't stun them off, but I think it's Husk. Scrakes are rather easy as long as you can put distance between them; enrage them with M14 then switch to HCs and empty them to its head. At higher difficulties Husks are a bane to the Sharp's existence. They're dreadful to be confronted from a distance among the horde, but not impossible. Even in a team M14+DHC sharp requires very high amount of skill to be useful, especially at higher difficulties where Crossbow has lower dps.
Everyone sees zerkers as sloppy players but I think not, game simply spawns specimen depending on the dominant class in team. When you have 2 or more zerks in team you'll most likely notice increased spawns of Crawlers, Sirens and Husks; Stalkers simply position and throw themselves to you to swarm you off. At higher difficulties Berserker require determined gameplay of kiting and elimination of small trash specimen one by one until big baddies such as Fleshpound left. Even with low skill, a high level zerker could draw aggro easily away from team while kiting the specimen around, while a higher skill mastered zerk can easily kite and kill hordes of specimen without having to stop. That's actually ensured with the new toys of the zerk.
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You're getting a bit mixed up here. As I've mentioned before, it's important to distinguish between skill floor and skill ceiling.
You have correctly noted that the Commando is a rather forgiving class to play - with fully automatic weaponry there isn't a huge penalty for missing. And as a class focused on killing trash it doesn't take an expert to get the job done. This is indicative of a low skill floor. But the existence of a low skill floor by no means excludes a high ceiling, which the Commando does indeed have.
Skill ceiling is the point at which further skill ceases to improve player performance by any noticeable amount. Like the Sharpshooter, the Commando has a high skill ceiling due to headshotting. The Commando can fire a lot of bullets very quickly, and it takes an incredible amount of skill to make these all headshots (while maintaining speed). The more a Commando improves his aim the quicker he can clear trash, the more useful he becomes against the tougher enemies, and the further he can stretch his ammo. Most assault rifles are packing 2.5k theoretical (headshot) damage in a single magazine - almost enough to decap a full health 6 man HoE Scrake. It's pretty clear that it would be nigh impossible to reach a level of skill with Commando at which you stopped seeing performance gains.
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