Where is tactic-gaming?

[Solo4114]

Good to know. And I agree. You CAN get good games on pub servers, without the time committment a clan requires. Ideally, your best bet is to find a few servers you dig and have a good ping to, and just play there. Eventually you'll start seeing regulars you know you can work with.

One other tip: the best thing you can do to enhance teamwork is to communicate. Even if it's just typing (though, really, the in-game VOIP works quite well), communicating and indicating that you WANT to work together can do wonders. IE: "Anyone need a ride?" when you're driving an APC.

 

[Aeneas2020]

Good to know. And I agree. You CAN get good games on pub servers, without the time committment a clan requires. Ideally, your best bet is to find a few servers you dig and have a good ping to, and just play there. Eventually you'll start seeing regulars you know you can work with.

One other tip: the best thing you can do to enhance teamwork is to communicate. Even if it's just typing (though, really, the in-game VOIP works quite well), communicating and indicating that you WANT to work together can do wonders. IE: "Anyone need a ride?" when you're driving an APC.

most sensible thing said in the thread so far: sums up what this thread is indicating perfectly

 

[Major von Mauser]

most sensible thing said in the thread so far: sums up what this thread is indicating perfectly

That's usually what I try to do, although if a pubber seems especially adept, I might use Mr. Mic.

 

[{8.SS}Bottcher]

Man, you beat us so bad we need a new word to describe it. I don't know who said it gave us an advantage, but whoever it is needs to be sen't to a gulag. Anyways, wish you luck in the next battle, not like you'll really need it, I'm shure we will get pwned again.

You should've handed us our asses, but you kept camping that hill while on the attack lol, we got bored of waiting for you so blitzed you, that's the only reason we won, we brought speed onto our side even though you guys had the faster vehicles.

But thanks for the wellwishing and i hope you guys do well too.

Back to topic; the only way you'll find decent, regular teamplaying, is if you join into a server that has clan/unit members playing frequently, you know a decent 3-4 a side that you can then join into. Provided you don't dick about then 99% of units will accept you into their play and let you join the "squad" of the day. 8th has regular public player and regular players from other units coming in and playing as a team, some people join, others just stay as regulars, i think most units are like that and i've been in units before where regulars were made honourary members because they always play so they'd get a slot saved for them.
The only flaw in this is the fact a lot of people look at a server, see the number of tags and just think they'll either get owned by people working together, or that they're interrupting something.
Unaffiliated players, i call to you now! Get brave and don't worry, if you enter a server that wasn't passworded for whatever reason, you'll just be asked to leave and probably get invited to return later when the server is ready for public play again. (I had a problem with this earlier, our private server was on the fritz and i didn't want to PW the public server) And if you're scared you'll get beat, think about it: There's unit members on both sides so whichever side you join you'll be playing against people of a certain skill level, dependant on the skill level in the unit itself.

 

[Solo4114]

Bottcher, what about those clans who are busy on TS/Ventrilo to which the pub player has no access? That's a common problem when clanners join a pub server.

 

[{8.SS}Bottcher]

Bottcher, what about those clans who are busy on TS/Ventrilo to which the pub player has no access? That's a common problem when clanners join a pub server.

Agreed, which is why a lot of units put in the vent/TS details on their server as server messages or in the info screen, 8th has it a bit different, we use Vent and have a direct link to the Vent server on our website, time for my own shameless plug here!

www.okwironcross.com, you click the text which takes you to the forums, click the big shieldy thing and if you have Vent installed it takes you directly there and you can have a natter with us while you play.

*Puts on asbestos clothing*

 

[KrazyKraut]

There's barely any teamwork on public servers. Everyone who is honest has to admit that out of 10 games on a public server maybe 2 have any real teamplay in it. Of course that is a problem with many online games, but RO doesn't do a particularly good job in encouraging teamwork. The game could, for example, benefit a lot from friendly icons, at least for the team leaders. Another thing that bothers me is that it is so easy for a moderately skilled player to just nade-run-and-gun down medium-to large groups of enemies. There's staying together is many times just counter-productive and each man rushing/camping for himself works at least equally well. Like said many times before, the way weapons work in RO is one of its major problems.

In the end most public-server-players will resort to the tactic that is a) easy to do and b) will give them a good kill/death ratio (even if they just feel it is good). As long as running and gunning around as a

 

[LogisticEarth]

There's barely any teamwork on public servers. Everyone who is honest has to admit that out of 10 games on a public server maybe 2 have any real teamplay in it. Of course that is a problem with many online games, but RO doesn't do a particularly good job in encouraging teamwork. The game could, for example, benefit a lot from friendly icons, at least for the team leaders. Another thing that bothers me is that it is so easy for a moderately skilled player to just nade-run-and-gun down medium-to large groups of enemies. There's staying together is many times just counter-productive and each man rushing/camping for himself works at least equally well. Like said many times before, the way weapons work in RO is one of its major problems.

In the end most public-server-players will resort to the tactic that is a) easy to do and b) will give them a good kill/death ratio (even if they just feel it is good). As long as running and gunning around as a

There can be excellent teamplay on pub servers, fairly frequently also. The issue is, however, a combination of having a competent, strong voiced leader on VOIP, and good map design that promotes teamplay.

I'm a total Kriegstadt whore, so I'll use that as an example of map design that promotes team play. One, it presents both the attackers and defenders with a very challenging situation that basically requires teamplay in many situations to work. The Germans must constantly harass the Russian tankers and keep thier MGs fireing. Meanwhile the Russians have a pretty hard job where run-and-gun soloers will be cut down very, very quickly. Taking the Moltke bridge REQUIRES teamwork, and can never be even close to be taken without corodination between tankers, spotters, MG supression, and the occasional organized charge. This harsh gameplay leads to soloers getting very, very frustrated quickly and either shaping up and working together, or leaving. Luckily, most people stick around.

It's also good because, even though the map is absolutely huge, it keeps the entire team mostly in the same area. You're all attacking the same plaza, or trying to get down the same street. So simple orders can be quickly understood and reacted to. If you say "Machine gun, second story, far right" the tanker knows what you're talking about almost instantaneously.

In any case, the point I'm trying to make here is that map design can have a big influence on how spontaneous teamwork can arise. Maps like StalingradKessel, Danzing, BlackDayJuly, etc. are frustrating at times because it offers the players multiple cap zones to attack, rather than multiple paths of attack to a common cap zone. I think an abundance of active cap zones leads to a pub-server team getting dispersed as everyone decides which cap zone they "feel" like going after. A linear progression of cap zones may seem boring, but maps like Leningrad, Kreigstadt, or the latter stages of Berezina prove otherwise. In this way, everyone is working towards the same goal, but isn't overly restricted. A proper ratio of automatics-to-rifles is important also.

But yes, before this turns from a long post into a full blown rant, I'll end it there. Teamwork on pubs isn't just about players being morons or good team members. It's more complex then that.

 

[Solo4114]

Excellent points, LogisticEarth. Map design plays a BIG role in how the map will be played. If you have multiple positions that can be attacked, the team will fragment. It's one thing to have multiple paths INTO a cap zone (IE: think about the three basic paths into the HQ Square on Odessa), but it's another thing entirely to have multiple separate cap zones open at once which ends up splitting the teams.

I think the latter tends to lead to more of a feeling of disorganization when playing. That may be the idea -- IE: to make the game seem more chaotic -- but at least for pub servers, I think that maps with a clear linear cap order can be better for encouraging teamplay, as long as they offer multiple routes to the objective. Even when they don't offer multiple routes, sometimes a good hard fight along a linear progression can be a lot of fun. I loved Gorlitz and wish more servers still ran it, but I think a lot of people found it "boring" specifically because it lacked a lot of options for players to take multiple paths.

 

[vr6r]

Just a note on the nvida 8x card stuttering... set "World Detail" to low.

I have an 8800gtx and if your problem was similar to mine, that setting will fix it. Don't really notice any difference in graphics either.

It was worst for me on Danzig... stuttered like mad. Being that we have a 24x7 Danzig server, this was a problem. Setting the detail to low though fixed all of it - I don't get any stuttering at all now.

 

[Nimsky]

There can be excellent teamplay on pub servers, fairly frequently also. The issue is, however, a combination of having a competent, strong voiced leader on VOIP, and good map design that promotes teamplay.

I'm a total Kriegstadt whore, so I'll use that as an example of map design that promotes team play. One, it presents both the attackers and defenders with a very challenging situation that basically requires teamplay in many situations to work. The Germans must constantly harass the Russian tankers and keep thier MGs fireing. Meanwhile the Russians have a pretty hard job where run-and-gun soloers will be cut down very, very quickly. Taking the Moltke bridge REQUIRES teamwork, and can never be even close to be taken without corodination between tankers, spotters, MG supression, and the occasional organized charge. This harsh gameplay leads to soloers getting very, very frustrated quickly and either shaping up and working together, or leaving. Luckily, most people stick around.

It's also good because, even though the map is absolutely huge, it keeps the entire team mostly in the same area. You're all attacking the same plaza, or trying to get down the same street. So simple orders can be quickly understood and reacted to. If you say "Machine gun, second story, far right" the tanker knows what you're talking about almost instantaneously.

In any case, the point I'm trying to make here is that map design can have a big influence on how spontaneous teamwork can arise. Maps like StalingradKessel, Danzing, BlackDayJuly, etc. are frustrating at times because it offers the players multiple cap zones to attack, rather than multiple paths of attack to a common cap zone. I think an abundance of active cap zones leads to a pub-server team getting dispersed as everyone decides which cap zone they "feel" like going after. A linear progression of cap zones may seem boring, but maps like Leningrad, Kreigstadt, or the latter stages of Berezina prove otherwise. In this way, everyone is working towards the same goal, but isn't overly restricted. A proper ratio of automatics-to-rifles is important also.

But yes, before this turns from a long post into a full blown rant, I'll end it there. Teamwork on pubs isn't just about players being morons or good team members. It's more complex then that.

Exactly. You speak the truth. Kriegstadt is a heck of a lot better than most RO maps because of the reasons you pointed out above.

You want to encourage teamwork as a mapper? Don't make Danzig or Odessa-type maps. The objectives are too dispersed (or maybe it's too fast-paced) to have lots of teamwork. Make your map big, linear (while still giving the player plenty of freedom) and let the battle for the final objective be something epic; like the bridges in Kriegstadt and Leningrad, or the river crossing in Berezina. 1:1 scale is the future of RO imo.

I think it would be interesting to show a top-down view of a game-in-progress of RO and see how large the average "assault group" is that attacks a given objective. I'm guessing it would be about 1 - 4 people. Out of 16 players per side!

And for the people complaining about lack of teamwork, read my sig. Don't wait for it, you're the one who starts teamwork in a pub server, not the rest. Think about it.

 

[Rak]

. . . and nobody will play it.

TWI's custom map pack consisted of those kind of maps and those maps are almost not played anymore, well except clan matches. Popular servers don't even include them in their maplist anymore.

 

[Nimsky]

Kriegstadt is very popular, as a matter of fact. Obviously EvilHobo did something right.

 

[Aeneas2020]

thats what i said earlier when i suggested that some people wont like DH coz our maps make you play as a team to survive, hobos kreigstadt is a perfect example of this. I wouldn't say 2 in every 10 pub servers have team play (whoever mentioned that before) i'd say it's at least twice that and if you dont like the server your on you can always quit and find another.

 

[IVIARSHALL]

teamplays everywhere, u just have to open up n SPEAK!

 

[Aeneas2020]

teamplays everywhere, u just have to open up n SPEAK!

amen

 

[Solo4114]

. . . and nobody will play it.

TWI's custom map pack consisted of those kind of maps and those maps are almost not played anymore, well except clan matches. Popular servers don't even include them in their maplist anymore.

Not to my eye. Berezina still gets played plenty. It's in the rotation of the always-full (or at least always-populated) TWB servers. As are several other custom mappack maps.

 

[Major von Mauser]

Not to my eye. Berezina still gets played plenty. It's in the rotation of the always-full (or at least always-populated) TWB servers. As are several other custom mappack maps.

Sadly I don't think it is as popular a map as it used to be (and should be).

 

[Solo4114]

That's because it's not an instant-gratification-shoot-em-up style map. The map actually requires very good coordination by the Germans, and decent coordination by the Russians. When I say it's pub friendly, I mean that it doesn't require clan-level coordination to win for either side -- but it DOES require coordination.

If all a player wants to do is hop on, run around, and shoot some people for 20 minutes or so, Berezina isn't their best choice. They'll probably go to a Danzig server or something. Same with Arad -- if they want instant-action tanking (which is basically just like a close-quarters infantry map, just on tank-scale).

Berezina was really popular when it was "the new thing." Right now, "the new thing" seems to be Kriegstadt or whatever. Not that that's a bad thing, mind you, just that I think a lot of players will get hooked on a given map and play it almost exclusively until they're absolutely sick of it. Witness the complaint thread about 24/7 Danzig servers. I didn't see anyone complaining over the past, oh, 4 months or so. Most people were probably too busy getting their Danzig fix. But NOW they're sick of it.

I dunno. Just kind of reminds me of a kid who sees a whole cake and decides to eat the entire thing in one sitting and then complains when he gets sick to his stomach and swears he'll never eat cake again.

 

[Aeneas2020]

yeh solo you are absolutely right. I try not to get sick of maps...but you are right. Personally i can go for 30 mins without shooting anyone so long as i feel the team is making progress, working forward capping things. So even if i have to crawl 1km to a capzone while my team is pinned down ill do it instead of just running blindly into mg fire. A lot of great maps don't get played for this reason. It would be interesting to break down the average play time on each map for each player i bet it wud be polarised between those who spend 15mins-30mins playing (instant shoot die respawn types) and Those who spend an hour or so playing. On top of that i can garauntee the type of maps played wud be pretty polarised also.