When will there be a hardcore mode?

[Yarden]

you want RO1? then go play RO1.

RO1 was realistic like COD or CS are realistic, SMG's recoil was absurd and it made them useless, soldiers were slow like friggin turtles,being shot made you get stuck in an invisble wall in the middle of the map.moreover most of the maps were like this:run run run run and die by a bloody camper.

you want all that AGAIN?

stop trolling please, RO2 is MUCH more realistic then RO1 and much more fun.

 

[Spungey]

Yeah, exactly. I think everyone's just accustomed to RO1's sway which imo was a bit unrealistic. It's not like CoD where the snipers have parkinsons.

So, technically, CoD is more hardcore ?

 

[vyyye]

Yeah? Go do the same thing after tackling 4 flights of stairs in 5 seconds and running 100m.

RO2's lack of realism is beyond a joke and the only people truly satisfied with it are those who enjoy a more run-and-gun type game. The gameplay as it stands is too fast to be called realistic, regardless of whether you think you can hold a rifle steady in real life or not.

TW know they've angered the vast majority of its core fans, but they couldn't give a turd because they made the game how they wanted and many people appear happy with it.

The mod teams on the other hand, will use RO2's potential and give us something more respectable.

I got to ask, what are you basing this "realism" you've come up with on? I hope it's not RO1.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

3kg that is spread over the span of a meter long weapon that has three points of contact with your body.

Seriously, hold a rifle guys. It's not that hard to keep it up and steady. I mean, they're basically -designed- to be easy to use, accurate, and lightweight.

I personally can hold a rifle around as steady as the players ingame. Could I do so in the middle of an adrenaline filled paintball match? no. Could I do so after cycling to the local gun range (increase heart beat, minimal muscle fatigue) frankly no I couldent. ( I take a minute or two to unpack my stuff & set up targets by which time my heart rate has slowed sufficiently)

In the end though sway is the least and last of my realism based concerns. I am more concerned with extremely quick switch to IS, very little movement momentum that allows players to run around, then stop & aim quickly enough to return fire upon some one who is behind cover and already firing on them.
Then there is of course the weapon # counts ....

 

[gentrinity]

I personally can hold a rifle around as steady as the players ingame. Could I do so in the middle of an adrenaline filled paintball match? no. Could I do so after cycling to the local gun range (increase heart beat, minimal muscle fatigue) frankly no I couldent. ( I take a minute or two to unpack my stuff & set up targets by which time my heart rate has slowed sufficiently)

In the end though sway is the least and last of my realism based concerns. I am more concerned with extremely quick switch to IS, very little movement momentum that allows players to run around, then stop & aim quickly enough to return fire upon some one who is behind cover and already firing on them.
Then there is of course the weapon # counts ....

You make a very valid point, I am planning a realism mod and while I will increase sway a little bit (it's going to be less than RO1 though), I think the main problem is exactly what you just described, quick sighting, even when running.

I have that as one of my features, however, I think I'm going to add some loss of speed, and hopefully I can implement player momentum, although no guarantee as to that one.

 

[Damo]

You ever play paintball? You seem to think that running gives you Parkinsons.

Of course i've played Paintball - but that's a ridiculous comparison and your argument is non-sensical.

Join the army. Enough realism?

Get over yourself?

you want RO1? then go play RO1.

RO1 was realistic like COD or CS are realistic, SMG's recoil was absurd and it made them useless, soldiers were slow like friggin turtles,being shot made you get stuck in an invisble wall in the middle of the map.moreover most of the maps were like this:run run run run and die by a bloody camper.

you want all that AGAIN?

stop trolling please, RO2 is MUCH more realistic then RO1 and much more fun.

Stop talking so much crap. This isn't trolling, this is the opinions of people who have been around here much longer than you, sunshine.

RO1 had some serious issues when it came to realism, I doubt many refute that. But RO2 also has serious issues regarding realism, and anyone calling it a realistic game needs their head checking.

I got to ask, what are you basing this "realism" you've come up with on? I hope it's not RO1.

Does it matter what i'm basing it on? If something isn't realistic, then it isn't realistic. Stop trying to undermine someone's argument by refuting it with your own opinion based on a different game. In my opinion RO2 isn't realistic enough, and in many peoples opinion it isn't realistic full-stop. At least RO1 tried, and paved the way for more realistic game-play. OFP and ARMA are the leaders in realism, and although things don't need to be **** in RO2, they should at least be accurate if it's billed as a realistic shooter.

I personally can hold a rifle around as steady as the players ingame. Could I do so in the middle of an adrenaline filled paintball match? no. Could I do so after cycling to the local gun range (increase heart beat, minimal muscle fatigue) frankly no I couldent. ( I take a minute or two to unpack my stuff & set up targets by which time my heart rate has slowed sufficiently)

In the end though sway is the least and last of my realism based concerns. I am more concerned with extremely quick switch to IS, very little movement momentum that allows players to run around, then stop & aim quickly enough to return fire upon some one who is behind cover and already firing on them.
Then there is of course the weapon # counts ....

Exactly the point I was trying to get across in the first place.

A 4 year old can hold a rifle steady, just like a 40 year old vet, until you make him have to move around.

RO2 has many short-comings in realism aspects, and it doesn't matter how many ex-CoD players say otherwise.

 

[melipone]

You make a very valid point, I am planning a realism mod and while I will increase sway a little bit (it's going to be less than RO1 though), I think the main problem is exactly what you just described, quick sighting, even when running.

I have that as one of my features, however, I think I'm going to add some loss of speed, and hopefully I can implement player momentum, although no guarantee as to that one.

Nice idea for a mod but I think any changes need to be made in a small mutator to start with. Keep the workload to an absolute minimum, and keep the areas where you change as small as possible so the most people will play it.

To start with we just need the most basic things changed, like Class Limits and rare weapon availability. Then once those changes are rolled out and people are happy with them, then other things can be added or made in a separate mutator. Stuff like zoom (controvertial, maybe it could be its own mutator without other stuff), sway, recoil, momentum, bandaging etc. Its too much all in one go and too many people would find fault with some aspect.

We need changes asap to at least keep the RO1 players on board with this game, and it should be kept simple for now I think. I read something about class limits being tied to the map though, so if we can't even mod that without forcing people to dl separate maps it seems pointless even bothering with this game

 

[PrivateBurke]

Of course i've played Paintball - but that's a ridiculous comparison and your argument is non-sensical.

You ever heard of a Biathlon?

There is an entire sport refuting your argument.

 

[Cyper]

Yeah? Go do the same thing after tackling 4 flights of stairs in 5 seconds and running 100m.

RO2's lack of realism is beyond a joke and the only people truly satisfied with it are those who enjoy a more run-and-gun type game. The gameplay as it stands is too fast to be called realistic, regardless of whether you think you can hold a rifle steady in real life or not.

TW know they've angered the vast majority of its core fans, but they couldn't give a turd because they made the game how they wanted and many people appear happy with it.

The mod teams on the other hand, will use RO2's potential and give us something more respectable.

That's pretty much spot on mate.

Personally, I am not entirely very happy with it, because I don't want RO to become another typical FPS. There is enough games like that out there so RO should remain as it is.

The maps for instance is built more for COD-like gameplay. 100% action all the time. The fact that you get killed at Home Spawn pretty much tells it all. In overall, they've adapted the terrain for the player, instead of letting the player adapt to the terrain.

It's sad that some of the best stuff in the orginal ro was deleted for the sake of being more mainstream.

The radar should be removed and minimum timelimit should be 60 minutes to avoid cod-like quickmatches. Other stuff:

- Weapon sway should be affected by stamina and health

- Hit in the legs make you run a lot slower

- Hit in the arm/arms should make the player drop the weapon

- Hit in the arm should make you aim very inaccurate

- Ability to see your teammates names above them at close

- More verbal commands (Ro2 has less commands than RO1 ffs. It's a PC game so there is room for this)

- If you bandage yourself health won't go back to 100% health and aim will still be affected

- Medics should be added and fill a role in the team

- The maps should be a lot bigger and less restricted

- If you hide behind a bush 50 or even 1000 meters away, the bush should not dissapear and make you completely visible

- You shouldn't bleed out in 2-3 seconds

- Bullet ricochette

- Tracers

- Increased sound from grenade blasts

- Increased bullet impact sound

- Increased ricochette sound (especially if you hit metal)

- Low, medium, and high peep if you're close to any explosion

- Temporary loss of hearing and/or beeping sound if arty hits down close to you

- Increased breathing sound when you run

- Low, medium, and high heartbeat sound (higher if stamina is low)

- Decreased precision whole aiming around with your weapon

- No ability to hold breath forever

- Breath-out effect for more precise shots

- Ability to walk

- More verbal commands (Ro2 has less commands than RO1 ffs. It's a PC game so there is room for this)

- Ability to deactivate automatic verbal commands such as ''Reload'' since it tells your enemy where you are

- Civilians (NPC's)

- Environmental sound effects (wind, snow, birds etc)

- Tank combat

- Other heavy and light armour combat

- Large distance firefights

 

[Josef Nader]

*words*

Rather than go through all this trouble, why not release an HD graphics pack for RO:OST?

I'm sure it'd be easier to mod the cover system into RO:OST than transform RO2 back into RO:OST...

 

[melipone]

People don't want simply RO:Ost with better graphics. They want RO2 with less simplistic gameplay. With some more difficulty factors or immersive realism. RO2 is like a gameplay downgrade for a graphics upgrade. Not everything is bad about it, its just missing some core stuff that would make it 10x better imo

 

[vyyye]

Does it matter what i'm basing it on? If something isn't realistic, then it isn't realistic. Stop trying to undermine someone's argument by refuting it with your own opinion based on a different game. In my opinion RO2 isn't realistic enough, and in many peoples opinion it isn't realistic full-stop. At least RO1 tried, and paved the way for more realistic game-play. OFP and ARMA are the leaders in realism, and although things don't need to be **** in RO2, they should at least be accurate if it's billed as a realistic shooter.

But it does matter, you have a notion of what you believe is realistic that a lot of people disagree with. If you honestly believe ARMA 2 realistically depicts movement you should just go outside and compare it to that, because it's nothing alike.
Since when did "clunky" become synonymous with "realistic"? Or is the historical evidence of the soldiers in Stalingrad having the fitness modern day office workers at 12stone?

 

[Josef Nader]

People don't want simply RO:Ost with better graphics. They want RO2 with less simplistic gameplay. With some more difficulty factors or immersive realism. RO2 is like a gameplay downgrade for a graphics upgrade. Not everything is bad about it, its just missing some core stuff that would make it 10x better imo

RO2? Simplistic? Are we playing the same game?

Accessible, streamlined controls + more fluid movement and weapon mechanics != simplistic gameplay. The core is still hard as the Rockbiter at a strip club.

 

[Spungey]

How is this game not simplistic ?

The game is very straightforward. It took me longer to figure out BF2 tbh.

 

[Slodin]

Actually...In-game, when you are near a cover, the game thinks you are laying your weapon onto that cover, so it reduces great amount of sway...
btw..3kg is nothing...even my laptop is 9kg, and it feels light..

the only things I don't get is even when you are not laying your weapon onto something, you still don't have much of a sway, and still 100% accuracy..after sprinting a long distance, still 100%...wounded in the arms...still 100%..wounded in the legs...I can still run like a champion~!

 

[Damo]

But it does matter, you have a notion of what you believe is realistic that a lot of people disagree with. If you honestly believe ARMA 2 realistically depicts movement you should just go outside and compare it to that, because it's nothing alike.
Since when did "clunky" become synonymous with "realistic"? Or is the historical evidence of the soldiers in Stalingrad having the fitness modern day office workers at 12stone?

Where did I say that RO1 was more realistic than RO2? Infact I stated that RO1 also had its pit-falls in regards to realism. The argument was whether RO2 was realistic or not, and for that it does not matter whether I base the point on an old game or not.

I don't know where you're pulling the whole 'clunky movement' argument from either - people stating that movement on a whole in RO2 is too fast does not mean the movement need be "clunky". Soldiers during WW2 were generally fit, but RO2's representation of this is laughable. INSTANT start, INSTANT stop, INSTANT hipped-weapon, INSTANT iron-sights, ZOOMING up and down stairs, and after all of that, with bullets flying all around you in an apocalyptic warzone and with injures on-top, you're still able to stand perfectly still and hold your breath for amazing stability.

They're not soldiers, they're batman.

 

[Josef Nader]

How is this game not simplistic ?

The game is very straightforward. It took me longer to figure out BF2 tbh.

So it took you longer to figure out how to not die in BF2 than in RO2?

Complex controls != depth of gameplay

It's the strategies and the tactics that must be learned to survive that give depth and complexity to a game, not developing muscle memory to wrestle the RNG.

Actually...In-game, when you are near a cover, the game thinks you are laying your weapon onto that cover, so it reduces great amount of sway...
btw..3kg is nothing...even my laptop is 9kg, and it feels light..

the only things I don't get is even when you are not laying your weapon onto something, you still don't have much of a sway, and still 100% accuracy..after sprinting a long distance, still 100%...wounded in the arms...still 100%..wounded in the legs...I can still run like a champion~!

The wound system is a bit screwy, and this is the one area where I make concessions that we need more sway.

Operating at 100% combat effective after taking a bullet is pretty silly.

However, I wonder how many people notice that your gun braces automatically every time you're even remotely close to cover. This may give everyone the illusion of "OMG SUPER TERMINATOR CYBORG ROBOT AIMING"...

 

[The Beast (nl)]

It becomes time for it. Then are all crying kids away to bf3 or another
arcade game.

I really want hardcore with good players. That is my wish.

 

[Yarden]

Stop talking so much crap. This isn't trolling, this is the opinions of people who have been around here much longer than you, sunshine.

RO1 had some serious issues when it came to realism, I doubt many refute that. But RO2 also has serious issues regarding realism, and anyone calling it a realistic game needs their head checking.

opinion? you can say RO1 was better, thats an opinion. but saying that it was realistic??

thats just being plain stupid.

RO1 tried to be super hardcore and because of that it wasnt realistic at all.

 

[Cyper]

Rather than go through all this trouble, why not release an HD graphics pack for RO:OST?
I'm sure it'd be easier to mod the cover system into RO:OST than transform RO2 back into RO:OST...

The whole thing is: RO2 is not that bad. It's a very good game, but it has it's flaws, and very much of this can be fixed partly or either completely. And I am not comparing RO to battlefield. I compare it to the orginal. I didn't buy RO2 in order to play RO1. I bought RO2 because I expected the same (more or less) experience found in RO1. Something more hardcore, as the thread titles suggest. And I believe this is what most people expected.

The command radial have been striped down enough to make it fit into a console game, the effects of low stamina have been more or less removed, dropping your weapon while being shot at have been removed, and the maps are away to restricted with enemy close to your own, full with people sprinting and using this new implemented way of movement: fast, twitchy, and in overall just to arcadeish.

I am not going to claim that RO1 was realistic. But what actually was there is somehow (and unfortunately) in my opinion gone in RO2. I thought they'd keep the awesome features in RO1 and build upon that with RO2 and improve everything from the orginal game and add some more.


EDIT: I just noticed It: The quote in my signature pretty much describes my feelings for RO2 right now.