When to buy armour

[human_gs]

Lately I've noticed how many players, even some experienced ones, tend to buy armour prematurely. I often play games on medium duration (7 waves + patty) and I never buy it before wave 4, and also never before I get a high tier weapon, and since I still have some lvl3 perks, it takes me a while sometimes.

Moreover, people fail to see the disadvantages of such a lousy tactic.
As obvious as they may be, I feel it's necessary to point out some of them:

1) You can replenish you HP with your syringe. Although it takes a while, it's free and you can do it as many times as you want and it's much more effective if your teammates help you, although that's not very common on pub servers. Armour points, on the other hand, cost money to replenish, a lot of money actually if you're not a medic. If the wave is still easy to survive, buying armour is utterly retarded: Every hit will mean a neat money loss.

2)Armour spawns randomly. if you give it enough time, you may easily save 300 pounds, in which case you should really avoid being hit stupidly.

3)Even if you have money to go around, it's still a waste. Most high level players get their weapons fast and feel free to waste the rest of his money by buying armour, when other teammates really need it. In this case it's more of a teamplay problem actually. But even when everyone has bought good weapons there's always the chance of a new player joining or someone leaving and you having to change perks and take his place.

4)Sometimes dying pays off. That's right, if there are few specimens left and the team is clearly going to survive it's effective economy-wise to die, in which case the armour is useless. The wave survival bonus is way too low to make up to spawning with more weapons.
Do the math: When you spawn again (considering you previously dropped your primary weapons) you'll have a new crossbow (300$) and refilled nades (120$) and half the pistol ammo (about 120$ I think). Plus you can sell your dropped pistol (140$) which will also completely refill your 9mm ammo (another 120$). That's some 440$ you will win plus 360$ worth of ammo (considering you were out of nades and 9mm) against the miserable survival bonus.

When do you people buy armour?

 

[nutterbutter]

1. Yes. Armor is cheap. Tons of cash in the game. Armor give players two receptors for damage. Sirens only attack health so if I have armor, I have no problem rushing sirens because I know that her scream may hurt, but if I have armor then I can take a couple hits until I heal.

2) Armor is cheap and there is a tons of cash in the game. You should have played the game earlier when there wasn't any "partial refill." It was

 

[human_gs]

1. Yes. Armor is cheap.

Armour costs 300$. Scar, EBR and M32 cost 750% (for lvl6). You spawn with 100-250$ plus a sell-able gun for about 150-300$. What's the point of buying armour so soon when you can wait 1-2 waves for a good weapon that will last forever? (as opposed to the combat armour that will be damaged when survivability is not at stake). Yes, the weapon will still consumes money every wave on ammunition, but you're gonna spend that either way if you use a cheaper gun.
It might be more useful for lower level players, but still I don't think it's worth it that early.

Tons of cash in the game

Look again at number 3.
You're spending money on extra safety while someone else might need it to get decent equipment.
Plus that's not exactly true for first waves, let alone lower lvl players.

Lower weapons + armor is always better than lvl 4 weapons alone

I actually disagree. Lower weapons+armour consumes more money as you have to repair it. Also you'll get fewer kills if playing on public servers. That way you'll take longer to get more money (if you already had "tons" then you would have bought both big guns and protection) and longer until you get some decent fire-power. On the other hand, buying big guns doesn't necessarily cause bigger upkeep, so you'll get your protection soon enough. This superiority becomes more evident on short games, where you need big guns fast.

The longer someone is alive the more damage they produce.

The time you survive doesn't just depend on your protection: If you have enough firepower, you should be able to keep up with the ZEDs coming at you taking little damage. If you can't keep up, you're doomed to get overrun, in which case your amour will last a finite, and rather short, amount of time.

Lame and cheating. I consider that type of play to be cheating.

Yes, that is an exploit and I personally don't do it (just came up with it today), although it's not that different from selling and rebuying to avoid refilling expensive ammo, a tactic I'm sure you use.
Still I didn't mention it to encourage players into using it deliberately, but rather to remind them that dying is not a big deal if the whole team survivability is not at stake.

I insist, armour is not worth it until the threat of being wiped out becomes really imminent.

 

[Olivier]

The time you survive doesn't just depend on your protection: If you have enough firepower, you should be able to keep up with the ZEDs coming at you taking little damage. If you can't keep up, you're doomed to get overrun, in which case your amour will last a finite, and rather short, amount of time.

I insist, armour is not worth it until the threat of being wiped out becomes really imminent.

What you may not know yet, is that some players (I and if i'm correct, Nutter) are using their 9mm as their primary weapon when playing as a SS. The 9mm is cheap, and can bring down small zeds. Why would i buy a tier 2 weapon, then buy a tier 3, when i could simply use my 9mm for the 1-4 waves?

Now look at the bold part. I would like to ask you, if you can't keep up without higher tier weapons in the very first wave are you doomed too? And finally, I would rather say: ''powerfull weapons are not worth it until the threat of being wiped out becomes really imminent.'' Buying powerfull weapons to kill small zeds is killing the challenge.

 

[EricFong]

I would just save the money to buy better weapon before wave 7, then i maybe buy armor on wave 5, since scrake is quite dangerous in suicide.

 

[The Demon of the Fall]

I will probably get frowned upon for saying this but i get amaour as soon as i can afford it, be it wave 2 or 8, i feel safer with it on!

 

[9_6]

Do your flawed math formulas that don't take the money you lose when dying into account all day long for all I know is, I feel naked without my armor.
If you play games (on hard? Suicidal? Normal?) and money is so scarce that you have to think twice before buying an armor, learn to play the game.
I always have money for armor at round ~2-3 on hard and ammo+armor comes way before giving out money to the team anyway. You're no good if you're dead.
If you're not getting hit, it's an one-time investment anyway.
If you earn so little cash that dying is economically better for you, you're doing it wrong too.

I do not see where you're coming from since the problems you seem to have are news to me an I'm playing the game since release.

 

[SMIFF]

I couldnt afford armour on wave 2 earlier, got surrounded by gorefasts that seem to come out of nowhere and died, if i had armour i would of survived.

You never know what might happen

 

[smilin]

Wave 4 here.

Wave 4 here.

I start as commando and roughly go like this:

Wave 1
Spawn w/ AK use it in single-shot mode.
Run around try to find 2 ammo boxes and any weapons.

Wave 2
Sell any found weapons.
Bullpup + 2 clips of ammo.
Fill up AK minus one clip. (save money, leave room for a found ammo box)
Use bullpup until it runs out of ammo before switching to AK to finish round.

Wave 3
Sell bullpup
Buy SCAR, fill ammo with any remaining cash.
Give away rest of money to any new joiners with 0 kills.
If no new joiners then fill AK ammo, buy couple grenades.

Wave 4
Top off SCAR ammo, AK Ammo
Buy armor
Top off all other ammo.
Give away anything left if necessary.

Wave 5-8
Use SCAR, don't use AK if possible.
Drop full AK at end of round, buy a new one.
Next round do opposite. Use *both* AKs until out of ammo this should save most of your SCAR ammo.
Drop a full SCAR, buy a new one.

Wave 9-10
Use spare SCAR so you can be more liberal with ammo.
If leftover cash give to teammates or "waste" on pipebombs (commando sucks at pipes).

 

[nutterbutter]

Armour costs 300$. Scar, EBR and M32 cost 750% (for lvl6). You spawn with 100-250$ plus a sell-able gun for about 150-300$. What's the point of buying armour so soon when you can wait 1-2 waves for a good weapon that will last forever?

Armor is more important than a top tier weapon. No need for a top tier weapon until at least 7. And not even after that.

It might be more useful for lower level players, but still I don't think it's worth it that early.

You said you are asking for opinions, yes?

As I mentioned earlier, cash is plentiful. On a hard game, I can easily generate well over 8k without trying to dominate the game. And by "generate", I mean having well over 8k in hand when wave 10 ends.

Look again at number 3.
You're spending money on extra safety while someone else might need it to get decent equipment.

I'm not spending money on safety. I'm spending money on survivability. No matter how good a player is, or how low level the specimens are, certain combinations are deadly. Mix 5 or 6 crawlers in front of a couple sirens and bloats with those in front of a couple husks in a hallway. That is pure death for me. Armor makes that situation survivable while an spamming m14 doesn't.

Plus that's not exactly true for first waves, let alone lower lvl players.

A lower level weapon used longer creates more damage than a high level weapon used for a short time. The point of the game is to survive not to put out the highest amount of damage.

I actually disagree. Lower weapons+armour consumes more money as you have to repair it. Also you'll get fewer kills if playing on public servers. That way you'll take longer to get more money (if you already had "tons" then you would have bought both big guns and protection) and longer until you get some decent fire-power.

I can switch lvl 6 perks each wave and buy the highest weapons available. That is how much money is in the game. Even on a public server.

Of course, I follow my own advice that I've posted in this forum. I scavenge ammo everywhere I can. I use the lowest weapon needed.

You know why people run out of cash and beg for money? Stupid play. 3 clots walking down the hall and some player will empty 6 shells from an aa12 into them. Or they'll empty a full mag from a scar into them. Most people don't understand that 9mm ammo is dirt cheap and players get two 9mm mags per ammo box. Lots of kills in those 2 mags.

On the other hand, buying big guns doesn't necessarily cause bigger upkeep, so you'll get your protection soon enough. This superiority becomes more evident on short games, where you need big guns fast.

Big guns aren't needed. You want to know my primary commando weapon? Bullpup. Even on suicidal. And I'm not the only one. My primary weapon on support? Shotgun. Primary for sharpie? 9mm. Even on suicidal.

I'll play sharpie and generate over 1200 pounds. I'll pick up a couple ammo crates and my total refill including armor will usually be under 200. Same thing as commando and other perks.

I've played the game when the bullpup was the only commando weapon. No scar. No AK. This was also before people really learned how to use the xbow and no one really knew how powerful it was.

People think the AA12, SCAR, demo class, and especially the m14 are the bare minimum for the game. They aren't.

The time you survive doesn't just depend on your protection: If you have enough firepower, you should be able to keep up with the ZEDs coming at you taking little damage. If you can't keep up, you're doomed to get overrun, in which case your amour will last a finite, and rather short, amount of time.

Armor give the player two pools of health. But you are thinking about it wrong. 100 damage in any period of time that the player can't heal them self is death. Adding armor extends that period. Say you and I are playing in a game and three husks spawn across the map. They pop us with 6 quick shots. I have armor and you don't. You could be support with the aa12 and m14 but you are going to die. I won't from that quick attack. Armor buys time.

Yes, that is an exploit and I personally don't do it (just came up with it today), although it's not that different from selling and rebuying to avoid refilling expensive ammo, a tactic I'm sure you use.

There is a world of difference between TWI setting up bad economics in the trader and someone creating a weapon out of thin air by killing themselves.

I insist, armour is not worth it until the threat of being wiped out becomes really imminent.

So you are aren't looking for other's opinions, but to argue your opinion. That's cool, just be up front about it.

 

[Banacek]

I try to hold off

I try to hold off

I'm still fairly new to this game, playing on normal. But I agree that holding out on buying armor is the way to go. When I first started playing, I would buy armor as soon as I could, because I was so worried about just surviving each wave. But then I figured out that was putting me behind in scaling the ladder of weapons. In later wave, I think the insurance policy of armor is essential, but in early to mid waves you should be able to survive without it if you're on a team where members keep each other healed.

 

[smilin]

I'm really more in the "Buy a good weapon so you don't need armor" crowd.

Whereas others will go for armor early and a big weapon late I do the opposite.

I'm not going to die in early waves (esp w/ overpowered gun) but I do take nicks and scratches from time to time. If you're wearing armor then these nicks and scratches cost money.

 

[Deadbolt]

I start as commando and roughly go like this:

Wave 1
Spawn w/ AK use it in single-shot mode.
Run around try to find 2 ammo boxes and any weapons.

Wave 2
Sell any found weapons.
Bullpup + 2 clips of ammo.
Fill up AK minus one clip. (save money, leave room for a found ammo box)
Use bullpup until it runs out of ammo before switching to AK to finish round.

Wave 3
Sell bullpup
Buy SCAR, fill ammo with any remaining cash.
Give away rest of money to any new joiners with 0 kills.
If no new joiners then fill AK ammo, buy couple grenades.

Wave 4
Top off SCAR ammo, AK Ammo
Buy armor
Top off all other ammo.
Give away anything left if necessary.

thats almost exactly what i do, but if i get enough kills in wave 1, i sell my AK and buy scar on wave 2, then rebuy it ~ wave 4 when i have extra money. armor comes around wave 3 if i do that, wave 4 if i do it the way u explained.

 

[Evilsod]

Armor is more important than a top tier weapon.

No its not. If you get mobbed because your gun isn't up to scratch armour won't save you, a big gun will, so your point is null and void. Getting caught off guard by being bad (or just not paying attention) is your own fault. I'm not going to waste my time rationalising the current, horrendous pricing system and stating how you don't need a T3 weapon until wave x, its possible to get 1 by wave 2 or 3 easily so why waste money on armour until i have the spare cash.
I'll buy armour as soon as my weapons are sorted out which depends heavily on class. Until such a time guns become more expensive theres no reason to keep wasting money on armour early on that more often than not, gets damaged by the occasional hit and doesn't save your life at all, completely wasting it.

 

[nutterbutter]

No its not. If you get mobbed because your gun isn't up to scratch armour won't save you, a big gun will, so your point is null and void. Getting caught off guard by being bad (or just not paying attention) is your own fault.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[Evilsod]

WTF are you talking about?

Do i have to dumb it down for you? If your gun isn't strong enough to deal with the enemies armour won't save you when you get mobbed if you preferred to spend money on that instead. But a big gun and not getting hit in the first place is far better...

At least while the tier 3s are so cheap anyway.

 

[nutterbutter]

Do i have to dumb it down for you?

Actually, I'd settle for you being less of an ***.

If your gun isn't strong enough to deal with the enemies armour won't save you when you get mobbed if you preferred to spend money on that instead.

Except my point wasn't getting mobbed. It was being attacked with the right combination of enemies. So if you meant something else entirely, why did you quote me?

But a big gun and not getting hit in the first place is far better...

Then why buy armor at all? The argument when to buy armor boils down to two questions. The first is "Is armor needed?" with the second being "If someone buys armor, then which wave?"

The first question I think is obvious; any armor is better than no armor. That leaves the second question. Nothing different spawns between wave two and four so that leaves four trader periods to purchase armor. So which is more important? More offense or more defense? I don't consider wave two to be any different or more difficult than wave four. So I don't see the need for more offense. But there still is the slight chance in every wave that the right lethal combination of specimens appear? Or a bloat with a siren spawns around the corner? Or someone runs around the corner and six crawlers just happened to drop. Or the game drop a spawn of specimens right on the player. Or multiple husks start popping the player from way across the map. Or any combination of above.

So I don't see any need for a top tier weapon before wave 5. And I don't see any problem with being overrun before wave 5 either. But I do see the small chance that specimens could attack in such a way that they could be lethal. Because of this, I think armor is more important than a high tier weapon early in the game.

Of course, some team loaded with lvl 6 players barricades themselves in a room then no one is ever in any danger at any time so then it doesn't matter.

 

[joleBARGE]

it depeneds of the perk i am using.

when i use range perk like commando, sharpshooter, and some other, i don't buy armor.

i can finish many wave with 0 damage taken.

i buy an armor only if i have enough money after i took all the weapon i want, and when Scrakes and fleshpound are coming.

 

[Evilsod]

-trollish spam-

Did you lose your ability to read or something? Or to think given your reply?

1. The answer to "what wave" was quite clearly given as "whatever wave it happens to be when i've finished buying your main weapons", but if i had to state a rather arbitrary wave it'd be wave 7/10 because of FPs, but chances are i'd have it a long way before that.

2. As for "why even buy armour", stop trolling.

 

[nutterbutter]

-trollish spam-

Did you lose your ability to read or something? Or to think given your reply?

See your above summary. Or just view your later words. Then I would ask that you consider your own words.

1. The answer to "what wave" was quite clearly given as "whatever wave it happens to be when i've finished buying your main weapons", but if i had to state a rather arbitrary wave it'd be wave 7/10 because of FPs, but chances are i'd have it a long way before that.

Well, yeah. That is the point. Talk about losing "the ability to read." The point was when to buy armor; before or after buying a high level weapon. The reason why I picked wave five as the delineation wave is the specimen makeup changes. By wave five is also when every player should easily be able to afford both armor and a high level weapon.

And why would you be buying anyone else's main weapons?

2. As for "why even buy armour", stop trolling.

Talk about losing the ability "to think given your reply?" Some people say that the best defense is a good offense. Yes, "not getting hit in the first place is far better..." but that really isn't an option in the game. And that was the my point of buying armor early.

Apparently you never learned that discussing opinions is discussing preferences.