What's with the Rambo hate?

[biomatter]

I remember hearing that the game weighted zeds toward the player with the highest kills. I don't actually know if this is true or not, but...
When it comes to spawns, the way I thought it worked was, a Rambo running around would run by many more spawn locations than a group of campers, setting them off like traps, and thus accruing more zeds. The ONLY thing that keeps zeds spawning for campers is the death of another. Whilst camping, you can basically watch them spawn around the corner as you knock them down repeatedly in a futile attempt to cover ground. By nature, campers will be near less spawn spots, and therefore get less zeds. The best thing to do is to spread out the team to the point that everyone has each others back, but can cover their own sections independently. It can work really well, and it activates a lot more spawns.

 

[Herborist]

I've been split from my group before on accident, and I spent the entire wave with nothing to do, so I'm pretty sure it's not a "trap" kind of thing where you set them off.

Someone go PM Yoshi.

 

[Kylegdaddy]

Not that I want to get too buried in this argument, but I do agree with Nenjin. I have seen games where a rambo had the majority of the specimen in tow while the group was twiddling their thumbs wondering where the mobs were. One game in particular on Farm, the group of 5 of us got so bored we actually ran around the whole map looking for the 6th player (which, on Farm, is like finding a needle in a haystack) just so we had something to shoot because we were literally getting ~30-40% of the overall spawn. That few spawn coming to a group of 5 players dies very quickly and makes for a very slow-paced game for us. That is my only gripe with Rambo's. If it weren't for the fact that I've had my game slowed down on numerous occasions, I wouldn't care.

Quick edit, I love the aforementioned idea of a "hardcore solo" mode. Rambo's would get the challenge they seek without stepping on anybody's toes.

 

[smilin]

You didn't read the rest of the post, did you?

The point being: If the game's difficulty was adequate, that rambo would be swarmed and killed almost instantly. If that doesn't happen, then it isn't. If all six players were equally sharing the burden being taken on by that one rambo, the game would be so easy as to be not worth playing.

Unless, of course, the rest of the team is really, really bad...

My point: Why is it annoying? Because when you run off somewhere it alters the spawns in the game. The rest of the teammates could have had a great game killing stuff but the rambo just ruined it for them. This is nothing to do with the skill of the players or difficulty of the game. You can't call a guy with low kills a noob if he just didn't have anything to shoot at.

But to a new point now about difficulty: If the rambo can take on the whole world by himself why doesn't he go play by himself?

Is he just there to take advantage of the increased zed count due to more players? If so he's just being an utter *** to his teammates and I see no real use for him on the server.

If he's not there to take advantage of the zed count then the only remaining possibility is that he's just playing the wrong difficulty. As he is again screwing up the game for others he should move on to a more difficult server. Stop playing in the kiddie pool in other words.

 

[Herborist]

Do ANY of you have any proof besides "I saw it... I think"?

 

[Kylegdaddy]

Proof? Seeing is believing, and I've seen it, as have others that have posted here. I doubt we're mass hallucinating. If you want proof, the best way is to join a dozen games where you stick with the group and somebody else rambo's and you'll see it for yourself; slow games don't happen every time but when they do they're quite annoying. Outside of somebody taking the time to record it in game or one of the TWI guys posting here stating that these spawn patterns are possible, I don't know what else to tell you. Not having a nifty graph or column chart doesn't mean it isn't true. Do you have any proof it DOESN'T happen?

Consider this: As previously mentioned, a maximum of 32 specimen can be alive at a time in a 6 player perk enabled game. 32 spawns for 6 players is 5.33 specimen per player. That means if rambo has 6+ specimen on his screen, he's got more than his share of specimen and is slowing the game down for everybody else (though in this example, only slightly). Now say he has 12 specimen following him around while he kites/kills (not uncommon). He now has more than double his share of specimen, slowing down the game for everybody else. Instead of 6 players taking on 32 specimen, it's now 5 players taking on 20 while the other does his own thing. It's not as fun or fast paced.

 

[Entangler]

Well, doesn't this just remind me of another thread?

My point: Why is it annoying? Because when you run off somewhere it alters the spawns in the game. The rest of the teammates could have had a great game killing stuff but the rambo just ruined it for them.

A great game? Are you kidding?

If the one rambo can do all that by himself, surely the game would be completely and utterly bereft of challenge if all six were contributing. What's the point of that? What is a game without challenge?

This is nothing to do with the skill of the players or difficulty of the game. You can't call a guy with low kills a noob if he just didn't have anything to shoot at.

"Reading, you say? My word, what manner of devilry is this?"

If all six players were equally sharing the burden being taken on by that one rambo, the game would be so easy as to be not worth playing.

Unless, of course, the rest of the team is really, really bad...

Now, kids, let's take a careful look at that passage.

"If ALL SIX PLAYERS were EQUALLY sharing the burden..."

Which is to say, your scenario about the rambo attracting most of the spawns was not happening, i.e. because the team had no rambo...

"...the game would be so easy as to be not worth playing; unless, of course, the rest of the team was really really bad."

...the game would be pitifully easy, because they're all shooting the same targets - unless the team's composition was such that the rest of the team couldn't pull their weight either way.

Do you get it now, or should I draw a diagram just to make sure?

But to a new point now about difficulty: If the rambo can take on the whole world by himself why doesn't he go play by himself?

So you're blaming the player for the game's deficiencies? Congratulations.

Or is it more that you feel threatened by the presence of such players? A little... emasculated, perhaps? I can't help but wonder...

Is he just there to take advantage of the increased zed count due to more players? If so he's just being an utter *** to his teammates and I see no real use for him on the server.

In isolation, that idea doesn't even make sense. How is the rambo able to "just sort of magically" take on that many extra specimens? It's an extension of the next point:

If he's not there to take advantage of the zed count then the only remaining possibility is that he's just playing the wrong difficulty. As he is again screwing up the game for others he should move on to a more difficult server. Stop playing in the kiddie pool in other words.

Which - once again - I've already addressed:

If his success leaves the rest of the team with little to do, then unless he joined a lower difficulty game on purpose just to gratify himself, it isn't his fault that the game can't keep up.

I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall here. Do you simply ignore everything that you don't want to hear, or is it more that you dismiss the arguments about challenge because challenge is something that you'd rather the game didn't have?

Make no mistake - I want the game to be harder. Much harder. I've already posted several suggestions to that effect in other threads. Hell, one of them would directly address this spawn cap problem that you keep harping on about - a scaling component thereto, based on the number of players active at the start of the wave - so go and dig that up if you want to look for a real solution. Whining about people "ruining" games that, if played the way you'd prefer, would already be piss-easy and thus practically impossible to ruin is not a solution. Fixing the game's flaws, however, is. And if you can't handle these "super evil game-ruining rambos" outperforming you, get better or get over it.

 

[AmsterdamHeavy]

Seeing is believe, and lots of you believe, eh? Alright.

Bottom line: you all need to start performing better and not begrudging others from splintering from the group as long as they're performing well.

Ive taken to following Rambos around as a firebug...to help them of course.
For some reason they insult me when Im just trying to help and have some fun playing bodyguard. I dont get the hate.

Its ok for YOU to go running off alone, but not ok for me to follow? LoL, then comes the rage quit because apparently Rambos really dont appreciate you "stealing their kills", which is odd. I mean, I want to kill stuff too and if I do the same thing as Rambo, Rambo complains.

ITT: Rambos are ****ing hypocrites

 

[Herborist]

There is no mutually agreeable conclusion. Either the spawn system works as I say, or as the rest of you say. Until someone proves it, there's nothing left to say.

Oh, and, I'm not going to bother looking for the quote, but whoever said that "simple math" is a part of confirmation bias in a sarcastic tone is talking out of their ***. The only proof any of us have is observations.

If you're all so committed, go run an experiment. Lots of empty servers; difficulty is irrelevant; it'd take 20 minutes of your time.

 

[HaTeMe]

Ive taken to following Rambos around as a firebug...to help them of course.
For some reason they insult me when Im just trying to help and have some fun playing bodyguard. I dont get the hate.

Its ok for YOU to go running off alone, but not ok for me to follow? LoL, then comes the rage quit because apparently Rambos really dont appreciate you "stealing their kills", which is odd. I mean, I want to kill stuff too and if I do the same thing as Rambo, Rambo complains.

ITT: Rambos are ****ing hypocrites

lol, well personally Id be annoyed if you started following me around and shoot the same targets as I did. I would think you were trying to annoy me on purpose or something.

BUT, if you just tag along to help out, I wouldnt mind, as long as you dont actually try to "steal" all the kills so I wouldnt get any money myself . Covering my back is entirely another thing.

Altho Im pretty much never ramboing so who am I to say anything..

 

[Cleffier]

My experience with Rambos is generally this.

1. Rambo shows up as a level 6 Sharpshooter on a 6-player Normal Difficulty public server.

2. Rambo runs around for a few rounds headshotting everything.

3. About Round 6, scrakes and such show up. The rest of the team is in some difficulty since Rambo was hoovering a large amount of the cash and not sharing, but we pull through.

4. Around Round 8 or so, Rambo gets cornered by three fleshpounds and a scrake and dies. All the cash he was hoarding vanishes to the land of wind and ghosts. The medic gets annoyed. All the specs that gang-banged the rambo turn on us. We get annoyed. Casualties result.

5. We die at the Patriarch because we're fighting him with shotguns and lever action rifles.

6. Someone asks Rambo to stick with the rest of the team this round so the medic can heal him.

7. Rambo gets offended that some "n00b" is trying to tell him how to play the game.

8. Angry words are typed.

9. Someone ragequits.

10. A new thread is started on the forums.

11. ????

12. Drama.

13. Also, profit.

 

[Herborist]

My experience with Rambos is generally this.

1. Rambo shows up as a level 6 Sharpshooter on a 6-player Normal Difficulty public server.

2. Rambo runs around for a few rounds headshotting everything.

3. About Round 6, scrakes and such show up. The rest of the team is in some difficulty since Rambo was hoovering a large amount of the cash and not sharing, but we pull through.

4. Around Round 8 or so, Rambo gets cornered by three fleshpounds and a scrake and dies. All the cash he was hoarding vanishes to the land of wind and ghosts. The medic gets annoyed. All the specs that gang-banged the rambo turn on us. We get annoyed. Casualties result.

5. We die at the Patriarch because we're fighting him with shotguns and lever action rifles.

6. Someone asks Rambo to stick with the rest of the team this round so the medic can heal him.

7. Rambo gets offended that some "n00b" is trying to tell him how to play the game.

8. Angry words are typed.

9. Someone ragequits.

10. A new thread is started on the forums.

11. ????

12. Drama.

13. Also, profit.

There's a difference between someone who insists on playing alone, and someone who plays on a difficult far below their perk. You're angry with people who do the latter; people who do the former don't have as big of an impact on the game play of others when they play on appropriate difficulties.

I've been playing on normal severs lately, and I have several level 6 perks - why? Because a friend just started playing. This may appear to be analogous to your situation, but in actuality, I'm just following my friend around and making sure he gets out in one piece.

There are a lot of mitigating factors, and you shouldn't let one bad apple spoil your experience. And if someone starts following you, call me - I'll introduce him to the Blocker (aka a level 6 medic who follows him around and blocks the shop ).

 

[Reaper420]

All I see here is *****ing. You wanna get Rambo's kill count lowered? Be faster than him.

Also for the camper's here's a little amusing bit. Earlier I was doing my usual Rambo rounds and ran by the rest of the group camping this corner. Seemed like they had a solid defense then two scrakes and a few randoms spawned right in that same corner. They all died. I lived. Rambo > Camping. Deal with it.

 

[nath2009uk]

My experience with Rambos is generally this.

1. Rambo shows up as a level 6 Sharpshooter on a 6-player Normal Difficulty public server.

2. Rambo runs around for a few rounds headshotting everything.

3. About Round 6, scrakes and such show up. The rest of the team is in some difficulty since Rambo was hoovering a large amount of the cash and not sharing, but we pull through.

4. Around Round 8 or so, Rambo gets cornered by three fleshpounds and a scrake and dies. All the cash he was hoarding vanishes to the land of wind and ghosts. The medic gets annoyed. All the specs that gang-banged the rambo turn on us. We get annoyed. Casualties result.

5. We die at the Patriarch because we're fighting him with shotguns and lever action rifles.

6. Someone asks Rambo to stick with the rest of the team this round so the medic can heal him.

7. Rambo gets offended that some "n00b" is trying to tell him how to play the game.

8. Angry words are typed.

9. Someone ragequits.

10. A new thread is started on the forums.

11. ????

12. Drama.

13. Also, profit.

QFT

+1 for KF drama

 

[Morello]

Thread has been pruned.

Keep it civil and on-topic.

 

[Cleffier]

There's a difference between someone who insists on playing alone, and someone who plays on a difficult far below their perk. You're angry with people who do the latter; people who do the former don't have as big of an impact on the game play of others when they play on appropriate difficulties.

I've been playing on normal severs lately, and I have several level 6 perks - why? Because a friend just started playing. This may appear to be analogous to your situation, but in actuality, I'm just following my friend around and making sure he gets out in one piece.

There are a lot of mitigating factors, and you shouldn't let one bad apple spoil your experience. And if someone starts following you, call me - I'll introduce him to the Blocker (aka a level 6 medic who follows him around and blocks the shop ).

Oh no, you misunderstand me. I have no problem with people playing at a level way below their perk. I've played in many public Normal games with L6's, and many of them have been very fine, upstanding individuals. These are the guys who do things like ask if anyone needs cash for a better weapon, or kite heavies away from the group, or use the voice to let us know that there's a FP up ahead, but don't worry, i've got the xbow, I'll kill him if you don't piss him off. In other words, team players.

I'm talking about the guy who (regardless of level) runs off and does his own thing, and the only time you ever see or hear from him is when you get the big red "John_Matrix was eaten by a Scrake" text, and when you suggest that maybe it would be a good idea to be near the rest of the group so we can cover you while you reload and heal you when you're injured, gets offended.

 

[cheesecake]

...gets offended.

Or better yet, when the rest of the team wipes, goes on to blame everyone but themselves for the failure.

"I die, and the whole team falls apart."

That was a serious comment. This player was nowhere near or a part of the team proper. Rather, she was on the other side of the map for the entire game spamming ERB rounds. Meanwhile, I'm trying to keep these poor new players alive as a medic and fail miserably.

Interestingly enough the player was female - but gender makes no difference when it comes to being a completely oblivious waste of a server slot. I raged hard.

This, among other reasons, is why Rambos make me sad.

 

[HaTeMe]

"I die, and the whole team falls apart."

Thats the most annoying thing a rambo can say.

I dont mind if some is going rambo and is good at it, but if he is being an *** all the time I dont care how good he is Id kick him right away. Its lame when he THINKS he is better than everyone else just because he was able to survive alone.

Ive always thought that good players dont have to keep saying "Im better than you". If you are REALLY good, other people will tell you that, not yourself.

 

[Oodie]

"You can rambo if you want to, and you can leave your friends behind..."

Yeah, rambo time. No, you don't need a mullet to do it, you just need to take off the jackass sign around your neck. I am referring to the very common griefer, my most hated nemesis when teamplay is what I am looking for. The griefer rambo (or in this case Kaptain Kill Score with a K) will join the lowbie server consisting of normal difficulty with people whose perferred perks are rather low compared to his shiny gold star beside his shiny gold icon. This rambo will, undoubtedly, proceed to kill everything in sight because his internal censors are instantly set to "large guns of doom" which involves our dubious griefer to use the advantage of his perk and the advantage of the difficulty to get his class' biggest possible gun, and then flaunt his kill count with the incessant "Insult Players" voice command.

On the other, the situational rambo is the guy I like, and the form of rambo that I'm content with (or beginner rambos but that's a different topic). Your typical situational rambo is the skilled player who WILL seperate from the team if the current position has been compromised to a point of "screw this I'm not going on the dollar menu" level of danger. This guy is the dude who's pulling the team through by a hair because he was smart enough to break off when the moment called for it. Hence why we have the achievement "Thin Ice Pirouette". Now not EVERY person that survives where his team dies is instantly gonna be labeled rambo by me. Sometimes they're smart, experienced players who know when a spot is complete ****e.

Long story short: Anyone going rambo before wave 5, who is also sharing his spoils and not on a suicidal server, is completely cool with me. I mean come on, the first 4 waves don't really even require teamwork (unless on suicidal).

 

[cheesecake]

If you are REALLY good, other people will tell you that, not yourself.

Here, have some rep.

Anecdotal evidence aside, HateMe is right. If you have people adding you to their friends list after a game, or if someone has ever sent you a kind word about what you brought to the match - you know you're doing it right.

No one has ever resented me because I watched their back and healed them, as opposed to plonking off to some random corner of the map and doing jack-all by myself.