What's so hard about using a bolt?

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Kaneohe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 1, 2007
99
0
0
I realize this is a touchy topic, and I'm not trying to start up a flamewar or anything. I should also point out that I typically play a rifleman.

During any iteration of these "bolt-action rifle vs. SMG" debates, someone always refers to the "challenge of playing a bolter" - or something to that effect. This is confusing to me, because...well...I've never had much trouble playing a rifleman. It's an exceptionally accurate and powerful weapon; one shot is often all it takes to kill an opponent, and there is little of the inaccuracy found in semi-automatics and submachine-guns. With this in mind, it's incredibly simple to use: just point, click, and bolt. In close quarters, of course, riflemen have a whole new set of challenges. But if you have quick reflexes and a bayonet equipped, a rifleman can still hold their own.

Given the difficulties of other classes - assault troopers have to get in close for optimal effect; machine-gunners must position themselves carefully to have a good field of fire without leaving themselves vulnerable, snipers need a good vantage point and a decent framerate - a rifleman's difficulties don't stand out as being much more grievous than other classes. Heck, on the class selection screen, a rifleman's difficulty is listed as 'medium.'

I'm curious. What makes the rifleman stand out as a challenge to the player?
 

Gomer Pyle

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 11, 2005
292
0
0
Upstate New York, USA
Every weapon has it's advantages and disadvantages. The bolt's big disadvantage is it's low rate of fire. That's not a big deal for medium to long range distances. It's also not too big a deal at extremely close ranges because hip shots and the bayo are pretty effective at those ranges. From about 20 to 60 meters (pretty common ranges on Ostfront maps) the bolt has a hard time against SMGs and some difficulty against the semi-autos. About ten people are going to jump in and say the bolt is great at those ranges too but, in my opinion, those ranges are not in the bolts strengths.

The challenge is that bolt rifleman in WWII were the mainstay of the infantry and were expected to take and hold ground (cap zones). That usually means the bolts have to fight their way through the SMGs strong areas to get to the cap zones and hold them once there. There are a number of ways to do that but the best involve teammates that help with arty, nades, MGs and SMGs. I usually try take out the SMGs before I get into their best killing ground. I then advance to cover and try take out the next pocket of resistance. In other words, use the bolt's strengths and try avoid fighting in it's weak areas.
 

Murphy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
7,069
743
0
33
liandri.darkbb.com
Nothing is hard about using a bolt, except close quarters fights and even there a bolt isn't useless due to the huge recoil the smg guys have to fight.
Also, if you happen to get into a close fight with a smg guy, he has to hit you twice or more often sometimes and given his huge recoil thats not that easy to accomplish in a second or so and if you are experienced enough you can hit him from the hip in about 50+% of the encounters with the difference that he WILL die from that shot. Only if you miss you are dead.
If he is farther away than you can effectively hipshoot him you can take your time and use your iron sights too, because at those ranges he is most likely to suck anyway. Unless they have their weapons rested and they are waiting for you to pop out your head, because when rested their recoil is playably low (slight sarcasm here), but almost every weapon kills you in such a situation.
That's why I'm a bolter most of the time. I pick up other weapons from time to time for varieties sake (and an STG44 is still the best weapon in my opinion, but I leave it to oters most of the time unless I can pick one up), but I mostly play with bolts because its the easiest for me.

Respect for good SMGers, especially Russian ones!
 

D3terioNation

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2005
3,959
82
0
40
West Sussex, UK
Why does it stand out? Cos it requires skill & alot of patience!

Most younguns may have the skill, but they certainly dont have the patience to master accurate shooting. Then come on here and moan about how they're stuck with the bolt every time they wanna play RO online!!

Thats why!
 

Oldih

Glorious IS-2 Comrade
Nov 22, 2005
3,414
412
0
Finland
I really would not considering bolt-action a challenge. Sure accurate turkeyshotoing reguires bit more than generic skills, but same applies with some SMG stuff.

Nothing is hard about using a bolt, except close quarters fights and even there a bolt isn't useless due to the huge recoil the smg guys have to fight.

Not to mention bolt with bayonet = best weapon you can imagine, even in close quarters. My best record has been (so far, with bit of luck) to stab four guys in a row in close quarters, everyone was armed either with SMG or semiauto.
 

Murphy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
7,069
743
0
33
liandri.darkbb.com
I have a new rig now so I can enjoy the luxury of being able to pick pretty much any weapon I want except sniper because that's taken first most of the time but I still chose the bolt more often than not.
But before, when it took a while for me to load, it bugged me that the bolt was all I got. Not because its bad, or because other weapons are better, but because of the variety and because it feels bad that you paid for the game like everyone else yet they get to chose whatever they want and you get the crumbs. Tasty crumbs, but crumbs nonetheless.
That has nothing to do with the lack of ability or patience for bolting (I admit that I'm a bad player, but it still has nothing to do with it!)...:rolleyes:
 

melipone

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 22, 2006
1,672
259
0
I think bolts are comparatively hard because of the rate of fire. If you suck at aiming then semi's and smg's will be much more easy to use as long as you can get in their effective range because they allow for more mistakes.

If you use a bolt and want to use your weapon to assault then it takes lots of skill because you have 1 shot, from the hip compared to 10-60 odd with other guns. Depends on how you use it..if you just sit back and camp then it can be easy, but you can't always do that unless you have very good SMGers/semis getting into the cap zones.
 

Jmodels

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 18, 2006
184
0
0
28
England (Malvern)
www.achtungpanzer.co.uk
I think bolts the best gun to use in RO. Once you get good you can kill 20+ without getting killed, but yer it dose have its disadvantages.

The worst feeling is when you miss a shot when a SMG is is getting closer.

It all comes down to tactics (patience fits into that its not just patience alone).

 

Letum

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 24, 2006
466
1
0
SMGs are better at close range, Semi Autos are better at medium range and MGs are better at very long range.
Sure, we bolters have a inferior weapon, but we use it with pride and the skill it demands.
We make our weaknesses our strengths.
We only have one bullet ready to fire.
Whilst everyone else blazes away with their autos we stand in our own
silence for just a split second longer to look down the barrel until the
feeling is right and the aim straight.
After the trigger is pulled our bullets are equal to any other. It goes where
we pointed it , nowhere else, and cuts away the strings from the puppets
that run in front of the cold black iron sights.
Then we pull back the bolt and burning, guilty copper flys free. It is the
perfect finish. It is the echo of the final beat of the hart we tore in two.
Then, when the bolt is pushed forward and we dive for cover, everything is ready again.

I love my bolter :D
 

BlackLabel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 9, 2007
3,137
1,063
0
Churmany
I feel so dirty every time i play smg....its just....dirty, unclean....:D


It all comes down to tactics (patience fits into that its not just patience alone).

exactly. If you can wait that one milisecond longer to aim and shoot you CAN win. But nothing bad about picking up that smg afterwards....
 

BlackLabel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 9, 2007
3,137
1,063
0
Churmany
Thing is..its hard to get used to. That lays in the ground mechanic of the rifle in the game itself...;) Due to people are stats whores . Some seem to think they can do more with a smg while 3 rifleman can turn the game around...booth need each other in alot of situations on the battlefield. So why peeps think semis and smg are easyer to use ? because they are. If i can, i allways choose the semi above the normal rifle every given day because the semi gives me the chance to kill multiple aproaching targets in a short time while the rifle has the disadvantage of TIME used to kill due to the single shot nature of it. Anyhow...it feels alot more of an accomplishment ( for me ) if i can get top 5 on a good server as strelok than with a smg....period.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
0
32
Falmouth UK
The bolt to be honest is the easiest weapon in this game and the best to start with.

Because once you know a bit about bullet caracteristics you'll get alot more trouble with other faster firing weapons to be accurate at medium/long range.

Because smg bullets drop like hell where rifle bullets hardly drop at all at the ranges you play ro.

After you think you know all about the rifle you can move on to other weapons. They all got more things you need to know and master than the rifle the rifle is simply the simplest weapon of them all.

And with that accuracy the easiest to rank up mucho kills.
 

melipone

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 22, 2006
1,672
259
0
The bolt to be honest is the easiest weapon in this game and the best to start with.

Because once you know a bit about bullet caracteristics you'll get alot more trouble with other faster firing weapons to be accurate at medium/long range.

Because smg bullets drop like hell where rifle bullets hardly drop at all at the ranges you play ro.

After you think you know all about the rifle you can move on to other weapons. They all got more things you need to know and master than the rifle the rifle is simply the simplest weapon of them all.

And with that accuracy the easiest to rank up mucho kills.

Hope you are joking..I disagree with 90% of that :D

SMG bullets drop? Makes no difference at the distance you use them at and their accuracy.

I agree to learn the game with a bolt, but you learn smg and semi skills by bolting..they are just easier versions of bolts imo (with some alterations)..hip shooting with semis and smgs is 100X easier, ROF is much better..as long as you use them in close to medium range they are much easier than bolts.
 

Oldih

Glorious IS-2 Comrade
Nov 22, 2005
3,414
412
0
Finland
What is so hard using railguns with point'n click feature? It is not diffrent from any other weapons basically. Really, it has the best killing power without any real trouble of how to use it.

"Truly" accurate shooting reguires bit more than just generic skills, but generally speaking

as long as you use them in close to medium range they are much easier than bolts.

Maybe easier on idea that SMGs can fire full auto and semis can be used to fire nonstop rapidfire, but really. It is like comparing Quake2's Chaingun (Semi\SMG) vs Railgun (bolt). Really, bolt action rifle is like a railgun. It kills instantly (well, not everytime) and works in the house and the garden. Besides, you get mini-sized katana with a bolt and with some intellegence and cunningess added, you are bound to win generally.

Now, try to master SMG :p
 

Monkwarrior

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,144
2
0
Bolts are seldom at the topscores.
This might say something about the players: in general they find it more difficult to play with a bolt.

Playing as a bolt is not very difficult.
Playing as an offensive bolt: that's the real challenge only a "few" can master.

Monk.
 

Gomer Pyle

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 11, 2005
292
0
0
Upstate New York, USA
Playing as an offensive bolt: that's the real challenge only a "few" can master.
Yeah, there's the rub. I'm a fairly aggressive bolt player when I'm on offense. I figure my job is to move forward so I try do just that. That means I have to leave cover and take the fight to the enemy. I just try to do it in steps instead of going all Rambo with what is basically a single-shot rifle.